79 replies to this topic

[repete]

N0MAD, on 11 December 2012 - 04:09 PM, said:

...One was the time, it was between 11pm -1am my time (Aussie here)..

Very true that the time of day was going to be the single biggest factor in the "failed to find a match" situation. That being said, based on my quick scan across the NGNG TS3 server, there were sprinklings of groups of 4 across the channel. Could they have played 8v8? Impossible to say. Back when we had the counter for the number of people online it would have been much easier to understand if lower player numbers were impacting the "failed to find a match" issue. But as discussed, marketing / comms / publicity people don't like the possibility of a counter saying "Not very many people are playing your game right now". ;-)

Lefty Lucy, on 11 December 2012 - 04:21 PM, said:

Seriously. I started in a bad mood last night. When I got home from work it was like "Stuff it. I'm gonna base rush with four Ravens just to say "**** you" cause that's the kinda mood I'm in". ;-)

[Agent 0 Fortune]

Vlad Ward, on 11 December 2012 - 03:07 PM, said:

You can still focus fire when the enemy team has ECM. There's nothing stopping you from targeting normally and calling Letters once you're within 200m. You can also just say something like "Shoot that Atlas on the hill. The one on the left with the gaudy, pink paint job. Yeah, that one." when you're trying to snipe from >200m.

Well there is one thing, you can’t see the letters. Mechs in ECM are untargetable and invisible to the minimap. And “target the mech I’m shooting” doesn’t cut it since mechs are constantly moving around.

Vlad Ward, on 11 December 2012 - 03:07 PM, said:

No. It means we need to put our big boy caps on and build a team that eats cheese for breakfast. Call it a Mouse team. Then when there are too many mice, people will invent the Cat team. When there are too many cats, people will invent the Dog team.

Yes, telling the random TS dropship player you are with to go buy an atlas D-DC with is Founder MC, and skill it up with GXP goes over real well.

I am getting the impression that you have either not played and 8-man team, or are part of the problem. No one wants to play with your flavor of the month, cookie cutter, kill squad.

[Lefty Lucy]

Agent 0 Fortune, on 11 December 2012 - 04:27 PM, said:

Well there is one thing, you can’t see the letters. Mechs in ECM are untargetable and invisible to the minimap. And “target the mech I’m shooting” doesn’t cut it since mechs are constantly moving around.



Yes, telling the random TS dropship player you are with to go buy an atlas D-DC with is Founder MC, and skill it up with GXP goes over real well.

I am getting the impression that you have either not played and 8-man team, or are part of the problem. No one wants to play with your flavor of the month, cookie cutter, kill squad.

Compeitive players will always use what's best. Right now the 8 v 8 queue is the only place a competitive player can go in hopes of finding a tough match. You can bring your special snowflake mech if you want, but you have to simply accept the fact that you're going to lose when you run into teams that have either:

a) better players
b ) better builds
or
c) both

Edited by Lefty Lucy, 11 December 2012 - 06:17 PM.

[Norris J Packard]

Better rewards need to be implemented, there is also the fact that the current build stability is horrid. Honestly we can't play more than two games without at least two guys CTD'ing/Gold Visioning/No HUDing per match.

Make it worth our time to play 8v8 games.

[Vlad Ward]

Agent 0 Fortune, on 11 December 2012 - 04:27 PM, said:

Well there is one thing, you can’t see the letters. Mechs in ECM are untargetable and invisible to the minimap. And “target the mech I’m shooting” doesn’t cut it since mechs are constantly moving around.



Yes, telling the random TS dropship player you are with to go buy an atlas D-DC with is Founder MC, and skill it up with GXP goes over real well.

I am getting the impression that you have either not played and 8-man team, or are part of the problem. No one wants to play with your flavor of the month, cookie cutter, kill squad.

You can target Mechs under ECM if you're within 200m. I guess you're talking about longer range engagements, then? In which case, it's rare for multiple Mechs to be in your team's field of fire at any given time - at least when they're not trying to blob you to death or something, in which case they'll be within 200m shortly anyways.

I'm not really sure I've ever seen a case of a mid-long range 8v8 engagement where the entire enemy team was within line of sight and weapon's range. At that range, we usually just shoot the only Mech we see. It's only when we're up close and personal that we have multiple people to shoot at and thus need to call focus targets.

I can't really speak to the efficacy of Comstar VOIP PUGs either, unfortunately. I play plenty of 8-mans, but they're all with my merc corps and we're pretty comfortable with our builds. We don't need to change too much when new things come out because we know our capabilities and we know each others capabilities in each of our Mechs. We've never had more than 3 Assaults on our team in an 8v8 yet, and honestly I'm usually the only Assault pilot period when we drop.

If we're going to talk about Comstar Dropships, though, I think we have to keep in mind that these are essentially the minnows in the shark tanks. They're PUGs with teamspeak. What little organization and team cohesion they have is due solely to their ability to communicate without typing. They will never be able to perform on the level of corps that play with the same 10-20 people every week. They are to us what the non-Voice PUGs were to them two weeks ago - free kills.

My advice for the Comstar groups? Start sync-dropping your 8-man dropship teams so that you know you're facing other Comstar PUGs and not a merc corps. It has to be more fun than choosing between a thorough facerolling and pug farming.

Edited by Vlad Ward, 11 December 2012 - 07:01 PM.

[QuantumButler]

Make it a frontend tonnage limit.

500 tons max per group or something, it takes everyone's mech selection's tonnage into account, this has the advantage of making the lower weight mechs in each class have a purpose as well.

Edited by QuantumButler, 11 December 2012 - 07:27 PM.

[Lefty Lucy]

QuantumButler, on 11 December 2012 - 07:27 PM, said:

Make it a frontend tonnage limit.

500 tons max per group or something, it takes everyone's mech selection's tonnage into account, this has the advantage of making the lower weight mechs in each class have a purpose as well.

Tonnage limit just means people bring more ravens and less atlases.

[BoomDog]

Look, all of those hundreds of 4-man teams joining pug matches aren't doing it because they couldn't hang in 8 man, it's because they can't find 4 more players to team with.

[Broceratops]

i think this is very time zone specific. i dont think i've had a failed 8v8 find yet, but we mostly play during prime time for NA

[Riffleman]

Norris J Packard, on 11 December 2012 - 06:53 PM, said:

Better rewards need to be implemented, there is also the fact that the current build stability is horrid. Honestly we can't play more than two games without at least two guys CTD'ing/Gold Visioning/No HUDing per match.

Make it worth our time to play 8v8 games.

Norris I am usually right with you and kong on opinions, but I have to disagree here. The rewards your getting for a tougher game and more losses are what the average player is experiencing. You cant just demand better rewards for having a chance at losing. Or else the 8 man games will then be flooded with pickup 8 mans who will run across the board in a straight line, get shot down in there 2 armor lolmandos, and reque again for their easy 400k profit, and then were back to square one, no competition for the real teams, and *******, ******* everywhere.

[bob1234567890]

People are leaving the game. Played a game with 8 decent players. We all decided to have 2 of each class then made them compliment each other:

1 ECM raven, 1 founder jenner
2 hunch
1 cataphractt, 1 catapult
2 ECM DDC

lost every game. Other team ALWAYS ran at least 6 assault mechs, 4+ always DDC. Then the rest of the mechs, lag shield lights. Got incredibly boring fighting the same build every time because our hunch players would stay with us under a 4 ecm umbrella, stayed defensive then the hunchs died instantly to the atlas followed by the ravens to the massive amounts of lag shield SSRM lights that are the only lights being played right now. Then we were like F-this so we went 6DDC and 2Ravens and stomped everyone. we either ECM capped them or beat them in brawling. Our lights just ran straight through the enemy team no caring who they hit cause knockdown isn't in so they didn't care they just ran through killing everything. Everyone trying to rationalize why you don't find teams, or why there isn't a player counter anymore, the answer is easy. The game is dying and even hardcore mech players are returning to Mech 4. PGI is lazy and wont test things themselve before release so we get grief like this.. People who wont run anything but boring old atlas assault heavy lances and lag shield lights, they are turning away so many people. So please everyone congrats on only running the meta. i only run my DDC and my Raven and this game is awesome because i can actually win, all the other mechs without ECM are BS and PGI with the whole "test" excuse and then saying "Well its just beta". I remember the Mech 5 video, how long ago was that? PGI is not Blizzard when Blizzard takes this long at least their games are released complete.

[Riffleman]

bob1234567890, on 11 December 2012 - 07:52 PM, said:

People are leaving the game. Played a game with 8 decent players. We all decided to have 2 of each class then made them compliment each other:

1 ECM raven, 1 founder jenner
2 hunch
1 cataphractt, 1 catapult
2 ECM DDC

lost every game. Other team ALWAYS ran at least 6 assault mechs, 4+ always DDC. Then the rest of the mechs, lag shield lights. Got incredibly boring fighting the same build every time because our hunch players would stay with us under a 4 ecm umbrella, stayed defensive then the hunchs died instantly to the atlas followed by the ravens to the massive amounts of lag shield SSRM lights that are the only lights being played right now. Then we were like F-this so we went 6DDC and 2Ravens and stomped everyone. we either ECM capped them or beat them in brawling. Our lights just ran straight through the enemy team no caring who they hit cause knockdown isn't in so they didn't care they just ran through killing everything. Everyone trying to rationalize why you don't find teams, or why there isn't a player counter anymore, the answer is easy. The game is dying and even hardcore mech players are returning to Mech 4. PGI is lazy and wont test things themselve before release so we get grief like this.. People who wont run anything but boring old atlas assault heavy lances and lag shield lights, they are turning away so many people. So please everyone congrats on only running the meta. i only run my DDC and my Raven and this game is awesome because i can actually win, all the other mechs without ECM are BS and PGI with the whole "test" excuse and then saying "Well its just beta". I remember the Mech 5 video, how long ago was that? PGI is not Blizzard when Blizzard takes this long at least their games are released complete.

not to put most of your post down, but I would hardly call diablo 3 complete. Utter disapointment. AND years late.

[Norris J Packard]

Riffleman, on 11 December 2012 - 07:52 PM, said:

Norris I am usually right with you and kong on opinions, but I have to disagree here. The rewards your getting for a tougher game and more losses are what the average player is experiencing. You cant just demand better rewards for having a chance at losing. Or else the 8 man games will then be flooded with pickup 8 mans who will run across the board in a straight line, get shot down in there 2 armor lolmandos, and reque again for their easy 400k profit, and then were back to square one, no competition for the real teams, and *******, ******* everywhere.

And I disagree because in a 4-man I usually take significantly less damage (in an Atlas the difference is 40k in repairs as opposed to 90k), and have the exact same return. Meanwhile the game's tend to be shorter due to a lack of brinkmanship, and take far less time to setup. What sense does it make for me to run in an 8-man beyond "fun"? I fill the "fun" quotient pretty successfully by simply playing with three guys who aren't going to give me problems.

[aspect]

Vlad Ward, on 11 December 2012 - 02:38 PM, said:

ECM is super effective against PUGs, but for many of the same reasons that vacuum cleaners are super effective against cats.

That is AWESOME.

[Riffleman]

Norris J Packard, on 11 December 2012 - 07:55 PM, said:

And I disagree because in a 4-man I usually take significantly less damage (in an Atlas the difference is 40k in repairs as opposed to 90k), and have the exact same return. Meanwhile the game's tend to be shorter due to a lack of brinkmanship, and take far less time to setup. What sense does it make for me to run in an 8-man beyond "fun"? I fill the "fun" quotient pretty successfully by simply playing with three guys who aren't going to give me problems.

I was just saying the rewards and time spent per game is what the average player is seeing. If its not worth your time for 8 man imagine what us playing solo deal with when 4 man or double teams are on the other side. Now instead of the game being fun for teams and a grind for the rest, its just a pointless grind for all.

[Norris J Packard]

Riffleman, on 11 December 2012 - 07:58 PM, said:

I was just saying the rewards and time spent per game is what the average player is seeing. If its not worth your time for 8 man imagine what us playing solo deal with when 4 man or double teams are on the other side. Now instead of the game being fun for teams and a grind for the rest, its just a pointless grind for all.

But I solo drop pretty frequently.

[Kirkland Langue]

Problem = not enough 8-man teams to have a proper matchmaking with them?

The solution has always been... in fact, the solution for almost every issue MWO has had (other than bug/technical related ones) has been to introduce Factions and Corps for players to join, with associated Chat rooms.

But whatever. Haven't played since the first week of OB and only waiting on Community Warfare before writing off a game that I once thought had great potential.

[Wildhound]

I reckon the solution is to make it so that pre-made teams can not play against PUGs at all.

Before, while you would generally lose as a PUG facing a pre-made, you would at least get a fight and have some fun. Since ECM, it has become pretty much impossible for PUGs to get any satisfaction from a match.

I have pretty much stopped playing since the last patch. It wasn't a conscious decision, I just gradually found myself opening the launcher less and less, because the game had stopped appealing to me.

I have been playing PS2 instead, but I'm still hoping the MWO situation will improve in the future as it is a game I want to love.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

So all seriousness aside ,,,, Would this mean that the "Matchmaker" is the 8man premade "Bogeyman" ? hence all the 4's lol

Edited by Cuthbert Allgood, 11 December 2012 - 09:39 PM.

[Obadiah333]

I think the 8v8 thing is only bunk now because of ECM. If there were no ECM, 8v8 would be where it's at.