59 replies to this topic

[topgun505]

One ECM Raven on its own is not broken. It is when you run with 2-4 of them that it gets to that point.

Go ahead and run a Raven by yourself in this environment. I guarantee you within 5 games at some point you will run into 2-5 Commandos and/or Ravens all running ECM and streaks and ... oh ... lookit ... your ECM doesn't work because they overpower yours. Bout 15-30 seconds later if you aren't near the rest of your team you -will- be dead. It really is pointless to attempt to run a single light on your own. You will occasionally get lucky and the other team may only have 1 light ... or more than one but the others aren't coordinated and they all run off separately letting you pick them off one at a time. But if you drop in 8-mans I can guarantee you generally won't see that happen. The traditional army build I see several times a night is 4-6 Atlas D-DC and 2-4 Raven/Commando. It has really turned the game cookie-cutter/monochromatic. It's getting quite frustrating (for a lot of people from the looks of the forums) and quite boring.

My only question is ... have the Devs even NOTICED this?

Looking at the Hunt the Devs videos it didn't appear they realized Streakcats were potentially an issue until one of them got killed by one. But at that point the forums had been flooded with threads about that issue for weeks.

Makes you wonder if most of them purposely stay away from the forums.

Azuanite, on 11 December 2012 - 06:59 PM, said:

I decidetd to roll a raven with ECM + streaks and pulse laser. ECM is just so hilariously broken to the point that i can take on an atlas (NO ECM) 1v1 and win. With streaks not working on light mechs, they are close to invincible.

I played with 250+ latency and 10 fps and i feel like a god playing a ECM light mech. The only time i get destroyed is by 5 mechs shooting at me or other ECM mechs

Edited by topgun505, 11 December 2012 - 10:00 PM.

[Besh]

Any of you people thinking ECM, or ECM Lights being overpowered and unhittable by lockon weapons have an idea what the word "TAG" stands for?

I also want to add, I learned a LOT about my capabilities in a CMD-2D while PUGging solo...even though I am in a Unit, I chose that path to really find out what I can do. The person saying this is pointless seems to have a different perspective on the game. To me, it was simply a few days of hard, good and valuable lecture, including countless deaths. As a result, I dont think ECM Commandos are overpowered , and have a pretty good overview about where I can engage, what I can survive, and what not.

Gotta love Jenners for breakfast though, I give you that .

[Ricama]

Besh, on 11 December 2012 - 10:07 PM, said:

Any of you people thinking ECM, or ECM Lights being overpowered and unhittable by lockon weapons have an idea what the word "TAG" stands for?

I also want to add, I learned a LOT about my capabilities in a CMD-2D while PUGging solo...even though I am in a Unit, I chose that path to really find out what I can do. The person saying this is pointless seems to have a different perspective on the game. To me, it was simply a few days of hard, good and valuable lecture, including countless deaths. As a result, I dont think ECM Commandos are overpowered , and have a pretty good overview about where I can engage, what I can survive, and what not.

Gotta love Jenners for breakfast though, I give you that .

Yeah, it stands for sacrificing an energy weapon to turn LRMs into a slow, heavy, mid ranged direct fire weapon with a gigantic min range. Oh, and good luck putting one of those on an A1. The hard counter to ECM is more ECM, the idea that a non-weapon is countered by a zero damage weapon that weighs almost as much and doesn't remove the bubble effect is insulting.

ECM is broken, all you need to see that is the ability to count.

[Aurias]

I'm actually kind of sad that this is the fotm now, given that my build before ECM was a 3L with 2xSSRM and 3xSL. :/
Now everyone just thinks I'm a fotm scrub...

[Eidoen]

topgun505, on 11 December 2012 - 09:59 PM, said:

One ECM Raven on its own is not broken. It is when you run with 2-4 of them that it gets to that point.

Go ahead and run a Raven by yourself in this environment. I guarantee you within 5 games at some point you will run into 2-5 Commandos and/or Ravens all running ECM and streaks and ... oh ... lookit ... your ECM doesn't work because they overpower yours. Bout 15-30 seconds later if you aren't near the rest of your team you -will- be dead. It really is pointless to attempt to run a single light on your own. You will occasionally get lucky and the other team may only have 1 light ... or more than one but the others aren't coordinated and they all run off separately letting you pick them off one at a time. But if you drop in 8-mans I can guarantee you generally won't see that happen. The traditional army build I see several times a night is 4-6 Atlas D-DC and 2-4 Raven/Commando. It has really turned the game cookie-cutter/monochromatic. It's getting quite frustrating (for a lot of people from the looks of the forums) and quite boring.

My only question is ... have the Devs even NOTICED this?

Looking at the Hunt the Devs videos it didn't appear they realized Streakcats were potentially an issue until one of them got killed by one. But at that point the forums had been flooded with threads about that issue for weeks.

Makes you wonder if most of them purposely stay away from the forums.

I beg to differ....One ECM Raven can crash alot of peoples fun in this game. I switched to playing it because it IS EZmode! ECM is what made it OP....I can hit you with streaks...you cant hit me with them. I move so fast (146kph) good luck getting anything other than a glancing blow as I circle streak you to death.

Commando 2D...yummy yummy. They just dont have enough armor or DPS...though they do their darndest and then fall over since I end up faster and can core them from behind. The only mech out there I actually have to worry about is OTHER ECM Ravens....and usually I can draw them back to my team before I turn around and start laying the hurt on. Yes, you can get overrun by a pack of hungry 3Ls and 2Ds, but a smart pilot knows when he sees the pack to run back to friendly lines and let them come to him. I cant speak for 8 Mans..but as far as pugging goes yummy yummy.

If I get killed in a match its because I made a bad read, walked into the enemy team chasing a target, and didn't disengage quick enough. Even Atlas D-DC is a joke..because none of them run SSRMs because "they are broken" and SRM 6 is more damage output.

When a light mech outdamages his entire team combined damage (680 Damage for me with 4 kills and next highest teamate was 150,Yes I know its Pugging) has all four of the kills made by the "Team", and only dies because at the end of the match its 3 Awesome with Large lasers vs one heavily damaged 3L. Of note: most of the damage I took was due to my LRM happy teammates...trying to shoot the jenner I was chasing and kept hitting me instead. In fact I take more damage from trigger happy friendlies than I do from enemies.

Maybe people dont want to admit how OP the raven is. I play it, I usually have free reign of the battlefield and I rarely exit a game without at least 2 kills (highest kills is 6 with over 1k damage). The fact that Ravens were not accomplishing this prior to ECM proves that the problem is ECM. Prior to ECM Ravens were suicidal because almost every good mech design could sport at least two SSRM's. ECM is hugely OP right now and since this is "BETA" needs to be looked at again.

[Ghogiel]

topgun505, on 11 December 2012 - 09:59 PM, said:

One ECM Raven on its own is not broken. It is when you run with 2-4 of them that it gets to that point.

Go ahead and run a Raven by yourself in this environment. I guarantee you within 5 games at some point you will run into 2-5 Commandos and/or Ravens all running ECM and streaks and ... oh ... lookit ... your ECM doesn't work because they overpower yours.

At least with the 3L it takes more than one light mech to eat your lunch.

Run any other light mech and it won't take 2-5 of them to gank you. It'll just take 1 of them.

Edited by Ghogiel, 12 December 2012 - 12:04 AM.

[bob1234567890]

Wingbreaker, on 11 December 2012 - 07:03 PM, said:

Oh, look

yeah your only proving his point, lag shield ECM scouts and maybe 4+ DDC groups are the only viable thing in this extremely poorlyy put together netcode error ridden game

[Quinton]

dont quite get why everyone creams their pants over streaks, put 2 srm 4's on a commando, run up behind an atlas and core it before it realizes your humpin its leg. Or for comedy relief, plug a jenner a melee range with both srm 4's and spatter him across the landscape. since missiles do not share a mech's inertia, they are infinitely easier to hit with than any projectile weapon, and get close enough and you can stack all the missiles onto one body part easily.

[Vadra]

Honestly I think I may have to do the same, It seems like every match I play is against an un-hittable light with ecm streaking me to bits if I run away from their ecm Atlas friends, who more often than not are also carrying three streaks.

At this point I may not even going to bother grinding the dosh I need for my own unkillable missile boat with homing 100% hit missiles, maybe I've been getting bad matches these last few nights but it really is a trial to get through match after match of the same mechs, at least with streak cats I could run away

[Adrienne Vorton]

ECM didn´t really affect me... my lasers still hit, my uac´s still hit, my streaks still hit when my TAG is out of the bubble...
and if someone is so nice to counter the ecm of yours with another ecm, my streaks hit even more...

people still confuse this game with a sologame, and i fear they always will...that means, people confuse ECM with a "i use it for myself" module, which it isn´t....

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

Codejack, on 11 December 2012 - 07:03 PM, said:

I prefer the Commando; the 2D can mount 3xSSRM2, 3 tons ammo, BAP, ECM, decent armor, and if you shell out for the XL195, it will do 126kph without the speed tweak. I call it the Halfcat, because it's like half a streakcat.

Why bother with the BAP? If the enemy has an ECM at all, this thing does nothing, and it was already crap before if you weren't trying to max range fight. You put it on a close range build?

[Adrienne Vorton]

Bluten, on 12 December 2012 - 01:32 AM, said:

Why bother with the BAP? If the enemy has an ECM at all, this thing does nothing, and it was already crap before if you weren't trying to max range fight. You put it on a close range build?

he has an ecm and a bap, that tells me he is doing the right job...scouting

[Dr Killinger]

Another big problem is the lagshield nonsense. If my Atlas with 2 Streaks is harassed by a light with ECM, I'm done for. But those SSRMs could be SRM6s and I'd be just as screwed, it's almost impossible to hit any light mech these days. Once they fix the netcode, ECM will be an inconvenience for a balanced build, but you'll still have many tons of unaffected weapons to sort the little ****** out.

Right now, it's Streaks or ntohing when dealing with a circling light, which is really bad. I eagerly await the netcode fix.

[197mmCannon]

Besh, on 11 December 2012 - 10:07 PM, said:

Any of you people thinking ECM, or ECM Lights being overpowered and unhittable by lockon weapons have an idea what the word "TAG" stands for?

Please make a video of your amazing skills at putting a tag beam on a commando and keeping it there.

Hell I have trouble sometimes keeping a lock on non-ecm Jenners that are running around me.

[Enigmos]

topgun505, on 11 December 2012 - 09:59 PM, said:

My only question is ... have the Devs even NOTICED this?

They aren't finished yet.

Impatience is unprofessional.

Dr Killinger, on 12 December 2012 - 01:56 AM, said:

Another big problem is the lagshield nonsense. If my Atlas with 2 Streaks is harassed by a light with ECM, I'm done for. But those SSRMs could be SRM6s and I'd be just as screwed, it's almost impossible to hit any light mech these days. Once they fix the netcode, ECM will be an inconvenience for a balanced build, but you'll still have many tons of unaffected weapons to sort the little ****** out.

Right now, it's Streaks or ntohing when dealing with a circling light, which is really bad. I eagerly await the netcode fix.

Your Atlas has no missile capability? I'm sorry, you said you have ssrms in an ECM world. Like a Polish Cavalry officer confronted with mechanized armor.

Have you never explored the impact three six-packs of SRMs has on a dancing Commando? You should look into this.

SRMs are scatter shot. Each missile does 2.5 damage. 3 packs of six do 45 damage, albeit spread over an area that will surely catch your dancer within it. I don' much care how bad an aim you are, you can hardly miss with three six-packs in a salvo.

Edited by OriginalTibs, 12 December 2012 - 09:49 AM.

[Roughneck45]

Netcode, Collisions.

End of story.

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

I'm running a 3L now and it's ridiculous. I thought my Hunchback brawler cheesebuilds were easy... good grief. I just strafe around on this guy spamming my 3 pewpew and 2 Streaks and snag ALL the kills. I just got out of a game where I was 2nd damage, highest kills, still alive, and got 1k exp. There was a straight row of "Bluten has killed X" in the chat log. As we capped the base after 7 kills(last guy ran for our base, so forget him and just cap theirs), an ally was like "WTF?" Almost every game is like this if we win now. I'm just strafing around, usually take barely any damage, and am at the high end of the chart. It isn't taking squat for me to do as far as skill goes. The former anti LRM QQs will soon be QQin about me doing THIS every game instead. But you should be happy, it's what you wanted! Can't touch this, dun dun dun dun. No Lrms, No Knockdowns, No Streaks. Dun dun dun dun. Can't touch this!

Edited by Bluten, 12 December 2012 - 09:54 AM.

[Orzorn]

Netcode, SSRMs should work under ECM (check Guardian ECM on Sarna then compare to the 3052 Angel ECM. Notice something?), collisions, lagshields.

It isn't so much ECM as it is the lagshield on the Raven making people need to use SSRMs, but being unable to due to ECM, of which the only real solution is to bring more ECM, which many teams don't want to do.

That's why the Remnant just brings one ECM and uses all direct fire or SRMs. Lock on weapons are highly impractical unless your entire team is built around using them (tags, plenty of ECCM).

Edited by Orzorn, 12 December 2012 - 09:59 AM.

[Codejack]

Raynz, on 11 December 2012 - 07:32 PM, said:

I'm curious as to just how much ammo you're stripping off to get all of the gear on there?

I listed it, I carry 3 tons; 300 rounds at 6 rounds/volley rarely runs out.

Bluten, on 12 December 2012 - 01:32 AM, said:

Why bother with the BAP? If the enemy has an ECM at all, this thing does nothing, and it was already crap before if you weren't trying to max range fight. You put it on a close range build?

Because if I put my ECM in counter mode, it lets me lock on to them faster.

[Codejack]

Besh, on 11 December 2012 - 10:07 PM, said:

Any of you people thinking ECM, or ECM Lights being overpowered and unhittable by lockon weapons have an idea what the word "TAG" stands for?

Of course! What was I thinking? I'll just go drop one of those on my A1 Catapult... Oh wait, no, OK so that chassis is gone, I'll put it on a C4... but now I don't carry enough streaks to justify it, and I sacrificed 22% of my total firepower to load the TAG, and it doesn't work, anyway, because of the 4 ECM mechs out there, 3 will close the range before you can get a shot off, anyway, and the 4th doesn't really worry about streaks.

Add that it's basically impossible to keep a fast mech TAG'd, at any range, but does show every enemy with eyes exactly where you are, and you have the definition of a weapon that is not just useless, but actively detrimental to any mech carrying it.