46 replies to this topic

[Scratx]

MustrumRidcully, on 12 December 2012 - 03:00 AM, said:

Seriously? He's asking a question that's not particularly harmful to ask or reply to.
Such questions are very common in game forums, there are always people that stop playing for a while and then return to get an update.

If it's a trolling attempt to ask on the state of the game and how the game has changed over the last few weeks, I am afraid it says more about the game than the poster.

Exactly. I know the OP from CB. I still chose to reply to him because he brought up legitimate issues/questions. So why not?

[zverofaust]

I don't really care about BT canon and I could go on for hours about the self-defeatist and frankly idiotic principles behind trying to directly translate rules from a turn-based tabletop miniature war game to a first-person online competitive game (especially when it's so inconsistently applied with some rules making it and others inexplicably abandoned).

Thanks for your responses though. I think it's telling that I can come to the official forums of this particular game to ask if it's worth playing and a large number of responses are "don't bother". Hint hint, PGI.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

zverofaust, on 12 December 2012 - 03:06 AM, said:

I don't really care about BT canon and I could go on for hours about the self-defeatist and frankly idiotic principles behind trying to directly translate rules from a turn-based tabletop miniature war game to a first-person online competitive game (especially when it's so inconsistently applied with some rules making it and others inexplicably abandoned).

Then... why are you here Zervo? Why do you continue to return to this game?

Anyway it's not all gloom and doom, there's some issues, but there's ALWAYS going to be issues, there were issues in MW2, MW3, MW4... there are issues in MW:LL...

You keep preporting you don't care about individual equipment, and that your "primary" focus is on the "new user experience" to paraphrase. "I don't care about the overarching metagame, only that it's BS grinding for 30 hours in trials to get a decent mech"

What do you consider something "Decent" Zervo? I personally find the CN9-A to be a decent mech that you can grind for in under 4 hours if you have a decent team on your side and actually "TRY" to play the game instead of just having things handed to you.

Could PGI do better? Yes, they could, and they're working towards it. I think it's too little too late in some regards, but maybe, just maybe, their changes will draw new players, and I look forward to that. Until then, go play the damn game if you're so bloody curious.

[anonymous175]

Jade Kitsune, on 12 December 2012 - 03:22 AM, said:

Zervo

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Zeno Scarborough, on 12 December 2012 - 03:27 AM, said:

LOLOLO yah I misspelled the name, what of it?

COME AT ME BRO!

DO YOU EVEN LIFT!

[zverofaust]

Jade Kitsune, on 12 December 2012 - 03:22 AM, said:

Then... why are you here Zervo? Why do you continue to return to this game?

Anyway it's not all gloom and doom, there's some issues, but there's ALWAYS going to be issues, there were issues in MW2, MW3, MW4... there are issues in MW:LL...

You keep preporting you don't care about individual equipment, and that your "primary" focus is on the "new user experience" to paraphrase. "I don't care about the overarching metagame, only that it's BS grinding for 30 hours in trials to get a decent mech"

What do you consider something "Decent" Zervo? I personally find the CN9-A to be a decent mech that you can grind for in under 4 hours if you have a decent team on your side and actually "TRY" to play the game instead of just having things handed to you.

Could PGI do better? Yes, they could, and they're working towards it. I think it's too little too late in some regards, but maybe, just maybe, their changes will draw new players, and I look forward to that. Until then, go play the damn game if you're so bloody curious.

If you're going to paraphrase me from another thread "Jaed", at least be accurate about it. I actually said: "I find it incredibly unfun and unsatisfying spending 30 hours in an uncustomizable, overheating piece of **** with legs before I can actually get access to the majority of the game."

As you can see, my "gripe" is that most of the features of this game -- Mech Bay customization, decals, custom skins/paint jobs, competitive play, economy, etc -- are unavailable to me for quite some time as a new player while I grind up in ****** boring "spend most of your time cooling down" Mechs.

It'd be like if PS2 released with only one playable class with no upgrade options or customization, with all the other classes and weapons only becoming available 20 hours of grinding into the game. Naturally, if they had done that, nobody would ******* play it. But on the contrary they've made the vast majority of the game and its features available out of the (free) box with full customization available for limited time investment, and I've already thrown way more money into it than I have any other game.

Edited by zverofaust, 12 December 2012 - 03:36 AM.

[anonymous175]

zverofaust, on 12 December 2012 - 03:31 AM, said:

Jaed

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

zverofaust, on 12 December 2012 - 03:31 AM, said:

If you're going to paraphrase me from another thread "Jaed", at least be accurate about it. I actually said: "I find it incredibly unfun and unsatisfying spending 30 hours in an uncustomizable, overheating piece of **** with legs before I can actually get access to the majority of the game."

As you can see, my "gripe" is that most of the features of this game -- Mech Bay customization, decals, custom skins/paint jobs, competitive play, economy, etc -- are unavailable to me for quite some time as a new player while I grind up in ****** boring "spend most of your time cooling down" Mechs.

It'd be like if PS2 released with only one playable class with no upgrade options or customization, with all the other classes and weapons only becoming available 20 hours of grinding into the game. Naturally, if they had done that, nobody would ******* play it.

My point stands that it only requires 4 hours [possibly 5] to raise the money to get into a CN9-A chassis which then gives you access to the "Rest of the game" as you so put it.

to further my point, you can earn enough to get into a commando in under 3... if you set your sights to a commando as your "Starting" mech, then you only need deal with trials for a very short time.

Seriously if you can't put in 4 hours into trial mechs to "learn" the game, then I feel sorry for you in the first place.

But don't worry the Dev's DO see it your way, they're working on the "new user experience" should be fully realized by Feb.

Edited by Jade Kitsune, 12 December 2012 - 03:39 AM.

[zverofaust]

Jade Kitsune, on 12 December 2012 - 03:35 AM, said:

My point stands that it only requires 4 hours [possibly 5] to raise the money to get into a CN9-A chassis which then gives you access to the "Rest of the game" as you so put it.

My point still stands that 4-5 hours is an absolutely ridiculous amount of time to have to spend grinding what amounts to a demo in order to unlock the full game. And it in no way makes me want to spend money to hasten this process. It makes me want to not ******* play it.

But please tell me more about how easy it is being a new player Mr Legendary Founder.

Edited by zverofaust, 12 December 2012 - 03:38 AM.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

zverofaust, on 12 December 2012 - 03:38 AM, said:

My point still stands that 4-5 hours is an absolutely ridiculous amount of time to have to spend grinding what amounts to a demo in order to unlock the full game. And it in no way makes me want to spend money to hasten this process. It makes me want to not ******* play it.

But please tell me more about how easy it is being a new player Mr Legendary Founder.

Well, I can totally detail out my experiences with the economy from June- october as a "Free" Player.

I didn't buy Legendary until the literal LAST day it was offered.

Try again Mrs. Troll.

[PeekaySK]

zverofaust, on 12 December 2012 - 03:38 AM, said:

My point still stands that 4-5 hours is an absolutely ridiculous amount of time to have to spend grinding what amounts to a demo in order to unlock the full game.

You mean sort of like the tutorial areas in most MMOs (DDO and SWtOR, to name just two), where you spend at least 5 hours and yet are only shown a very small subset of the game's actual content/complexity?

Sheesh, man. Chill.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

PeekaySK, on 12 December 2012 - 03:44 AM, said:

You mean sort of like the tutorial areas in most MMOs (DDO and SWtOR, to name just two), where you spend at least 5 hours and yet are only shown a very small subset of the game's actual content/complexity?

Sheesh, man. Chill.

He can't, he's SOO obsessed with this game, but he has to be handed everything on a silver platter without Paying/Grinding before he's happy.

Oh and he could give 2 stones less about the Universe we're playing in too. He's "one of those."

[Scratx]

Actually, the one big fault MWO has is that it throws the newbies into the wolves' den.

But that's what phase 3 of the matchmaker is supposed to solve.

[zverofaust]

PeekaySK, on 12 December 2012 - 03:44 AM, said:

You mean sort of like the tutorial areas in most MMOs (DDO and SWtOR, to name just two), where you spend at least 5 hours and yet are only shown a very small subset of the game's actual content/complexity?

Sheesh, man. Chill.

I'm sitting here wondering if you even recognize the irony in dropping the names of two spectacular MMO failures as evidence that this design has any merit.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

zverofaust, on 12 December 2012 - 03:48 AM, said:

I'm sitting here wondering if you even recognize the irony in dropping the names of two spectacular MMO failures as evidence that this design has any merit.

Pretty much any MMO does it. You have to play for 2 hours or so in WoW starting areas. And I'd even go so far as to argue you're not "Really" getting into the meat of the game until you hit lvl 15-20... so that's several more hours...

HUH, sounds kinda like grinding in MWO.

[MustrumRidcully]

zverofaust, on 12 December 2012 - 03:38 AM, said:

My point still stands that 4-5 hours is an absolutely ridiculous amount of time to have to spend grinding what amounts to a demo in order to unlock the full game. And it in no way makes me want to spend money to hasten this process. It makes me want to not ******* play it.

But please tell me more about how easy it is being a new player Mr Legendary Founder.

PeekaySK, on 12 December 2012 - 03:44 AM, said:

You mean sort of like the tutorial areas in most MMOs (DDO and SWtOR, to name just two), where you spend at least 5 hours and yet are only shown a very small subset of the game's actual content/complexity?

Sheesh, man. Chill.

Startrek Online isn't a particularly great game, but you get your first equipment drops during the tutorial and can equip these. You also get choices for your first Bridge Officers, so you can already start customizing your power layout early on.
Heck, even before you even entered the tutorial ,you have countless customization options for your character/avatar, beyond just species, gender and class, but really altering the looks, and when you have completed the tutorial, you can also start customzing your tutorial space ship.

[zverofaust]

Jade Kitsune, on 12 December 2012 - 03:51 AM, said:

HUH, sounds kinda like grinding in MWO.

I don't even understand how you can make this comparison other than you must suffer from some sort of mental disability. I don't even know where to begin countering your argument, that's how deluded it is.

But I'll try. First off, when you start a new character in WoW, you have access to the game. You may not have access to all of the areas, or immediate access to all equipment, spells etc, but you have access to all of the basic core mechanics that make up the game: spells, character/equipment customization, storyline quests, manufacturing, etc.

Not to mention the fact that new players are guided through the NPE by an interactive storyline quest system and game areas specially designed to suit the developmental level of new players.

By contrast, MWO has none of this. You are given an unmodifiable choice of 4 different Mechs and thrown into a PvP arena. That's it. That's the game. For hours and hours, you repeat this process dozens upon dozens of times until you finally earn enough money that you "graduate" and gain access to all of the things that make Mechwarrior Mechwarrior: the Mech Bay, equipment customization options, so on and so forth.

The difference literally could not be any greater, and I find it offensive that a human being could even stretch reality far enough to believe otherwise.

To make a direct comparison, MWO's current NPE would be like if WoW had a starting tutorial consisting of "Hi [New Player]! Welcome to World of Warcraft! Before you begin to play, please spend the entire day farming 500,000 baby Squattle Dragons. They will not drop any equipment you can use nor XP, you won't have access to any spells or upgrades, all you get is a choice between 4 different shaped sticks to use as a weapon. We'll see you in a few hours. Have fun!"

Edited by zverofaust, 12 December 2012 - 04:03 AM.

[Tigerchen]

MustrumRidcully, on 12 December 2012 - 03:00 AM, said:

Seriously? He's asking a question that's not particularly harmful to ask or reply to.
Such questions are very common in game forums, there are always people that stop playing for a while and then return to get an update.

If it's a trolling attempt to ask on the state of the game and how the game has changed over the last few weeks, I am afraid it says more about the game than the poster.

Read the post below and tell me again hes not a ****** troll.

zverofaust, on 12 December 2012 - 03:38 AM, said:

My point still stands that 4-5 hours is an absolutely ridiculous amount of time to have to spend grinding what amounts to a demo in order to unlock the full game.

You never understand the spirit of a F2P Game. You have 2 options. Pay with your time or with your wallet. If you don't like that, go and play another game but stop complaining.

zverofaust, on 12 December 2012 - 03:38 AM, said:

And it in no way makes me want to spend money to hasten this process. It makes me want to not ******* play it.

But please tell me more about how easy it is being a new player Mr Legendary Founder.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

zverofaust, on 12 December 2012 - 04:00 AM, said:

I don't even understand how you can make this comparison other than you must suffer from some sort of mental disability. I don't even know where to begin countering your argument, that's how deluded it is.

But I'll try. First off, when you start a new character in WoW, you have access to the game. You may not have access to all of the areas, or immediate access to all equipment, spells etc, but you have access to all of the basic core mechanics that make up the game: spells, character/equipment customization, storyline quests, manufacturing, etc.

Not to mention the fact that new players are guided through the NPE by an interactive storyline quest system and game areas specially designed to suit the developmental level of new players.

By contrast, MWO has none of this. You are given an unmodifiable choice of 4 different Mechs and thrown into a PvP arena. That's it. That's the game. For hours and hours, you repeat this process dozens upon dozens of times until you finally earn enough money that you "graduate" and gain access to all of the things that make Mechwarrior Mechwarrior: the Mech Bay, equipment customization options, so on and so forth.

The difference literally could not be any greater, and I find it offensive that a human being could even stretch reality far enough to believe otherwise.

To make a direct comparison, MWO's current NPE would be like if WoW had a starting tutorial consisting of "Hi [New Player]! Welcome to World of Warcraft! Before you begin to play, please spend the entire day farming 500,000 baby Squattle Dragons. They will not drop any equipment you can use nor XP, you won't have access to any spells or upgrades, all you get is a choice between 4 different shaped sticks to use as a weapon. We'll see you in a few hours. Have fun!"

The "Basics" of MWO is shooting mechs and blowing them up. Trials are there currently as a way for new players to learn to manage their heat and understand what weapons and chassis are like before they get the toys to blow themselves up in 1 alpha.

Atleast you're gaining c-bills in trials with no repair costs...

Is the system flawed? YES IT IS... I've said that already zvero... but it hasn't changed yet.

Now, stop and think though, if you'd PLAYED the game instead of "bitchin" about it all this time, you'd have the c-bills and be in your own mech and possibly having fun.

Though I'm pretty sure you will never have fun with this game.

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

Jade Kitsune, on 12 December 2012 - 04:06 AM, said:

Though I'm pretty sure you will never have fun with this game.

*Edit*

I'm cranky, and I can't stand only seeing complaint threads. Sorry for calling you out, zvero.

Edited by mwhighlander, 12 December 2012 - 04:29 AM.