21 replies to this topic

[LordBraxton]

I have no idea why the thread I just was reading was locked, so lets discuss here.

Who is noticing lag shield?

I do not notice it below 80kph

Above 80kph I start to benefit from it myself (I have shrugged off gauss\ACs ect for no dmg in my dragon many times the past few nights.)

Above 130kph I notice nigh invulnerability. I think more damage is done by near misses that happen to count as hits to the netcode than the obvious hits scored by lasers on ones own screen.

I can keep multiple mediums and larges on a light for the entire duration for no damage, time and time again.

Its a beta so problems are expected right? My opinion is to bring back the collisions as a stop gap untill the netcode and the collisions can be fixed. Glitchy collisions are better than broken game balance.

Please don't flame lets discuss and try to NOT get this thread locked.

[Zero Neutral]

See: http://mwomercs.com/...-are-magicians/

Note: Even the collisions were buggy. When the mech fell, it would bounce around until it got back up... give it time.

[Lin Shai]

Speed doesn't matter in my case; since the last patch I've shot stationary targets while standing still and done no damage. I've also taken no damage after getting hit while standing prone.

Prior to the last patch I experienced none of this (Since I got into closed beta in July); US player < 60ms ping.

Hit detection is just broken, basically.

[LordBraxton]

I remember the buggy collisions quite fondly though, I was just so happy that a mechwarrior game FINALLY included them.

Yeah I understand its a beta, just making sure that the developers realize that the netcode is the biggest issue right now, not balancing or content. The game has to work before you can finalize any more content.


@Lin Shai- I have noticed this to, but less frequently. Its odd because the hit detection was MUCH better a month ago.I wonder what caused it to become so flawed?

Edited by LordBraxton, 30 October 2012 - 12:44 PM.

[De La Fresniere]

I'm just gonna copy/paste what I said in the previous thread:

Wait... my ISP is right next to ÉJI, which I hear is where the game servers are located, so I would have excellent ping.

Does that mean I'm easier to hit?

Most people miss my Commando by a lot, but one person out of ten has near-perfect aim and can kill me very quickly. Is it because most people aim badly, because of ping, or... what?

I guess I'm in need of a more detailed explanation about this "lag shield"...

[Lin Shai]

LordBraxton, on 30 October 2012 - 12:43 PM, said:

@Lin Shai- I have noticed this to, but less frequently. Its odd because the hit detection was MUCH better a month ago.I wonder what caused it to become so flawed?

If I had to make a wild guess? They screwed up something when removing collisions. I literally have to lead everything by 1 - 2 mech lengths now if I'm firing with lasers. I've switched to running dual SSRMs on my Jenner (and it seems most others have as well) just so I can actually hit things.

[Kunae]

Lin Shai, on 30 October 2012 - 12:48 PM, said:

If I had to make a wild guess? They screwed up something when removing collisions. I literally have to lead everything by 1 - 2 mech lengths now if I'm firing with lasers. I've switched to running dual SSRMs on my Jenner (and it seems most others have as well) just so I can actually hit things.

Precisely this.

It's everything now, not just high-speed mechs with high-latency.

[Lin Shai]

De La Fresniere, on 30 October 2012 - 12:46 PM, said:

I'm just gonna copy/paste what I said in the previous thread:

Wait... my ISP is right next to ÉJI, which I hear is where the game servers are located, so I would have excellent ping.

Does that mean I'm easier to hit?

Most people miss my Commando by a lot, but one person out of ten has near-perfect aim and can kill me very quickly. Is it because most people aim badly, because of ping, or... what?

I guess I'm in need of a more detailed explanation about this "lag shield"...

@De La Fresniere - seriously? It's because some people (myself included) have figured out you have to lead 1 - 2 mech lengths with lasers and shoot off into open space in order to hit. It's ridiculous. And it isn't even consistent while my ping and my enemy's is (at < 60ms on both).

It makes sense when shooting at someone with a bad ping; that's always been the case. But the last patch seriously broke hit detection.

Perhaps read what others are posting before copying and pasting the same thing you posted?

[Jason1138]

lol my thread on this got locked and they referred us there to this thread, started after mine, with fewer posts on it? so we can all "discuss" it here, til we get more than 10 posts on this one and then it gets locked, i guess

[Carnex]

They really need to do something about this Speed is so much greater than armor at this point that there really is not much of a reason to play an assault mech. Light tank better and really unless played terrible can easily down a assault with little to no risk. Even when my team mates try to assist with the Jenner circling me I end up taking more damage from friendly fire than they do to the Jenner.

[LordBraxton]

Jason1138, on 30 October 2012 - 12:53 PM, said:

lol my thread on this got locked and they referred us there to this thread, started after mine, with fewer posts on it? so we can all "discuss" it here, til we get more than 10 posts on this one and then it gets locked, i guess

I am confused as well, didn't mean to threadjack or anything.

I am confused because I am not having problems with slower mechs, while alot of players are reporting that the hit detection is messed up regardless of speed.

I personally notice a direct correlation between speed and poor hit detection. In fact I've started to spread fire more than I'd like, focusing on hitting the stationary mechs first...

[De La Fresniere]

Lin Shai, on 30 October 2012 - 12:52 PM, said:

@De La Fresniere - seriously? It's because some people (myself included) have figured out you have to lead 1 - 2 mech lengths with lasers and shoot off into open space in order to hit. It's ridiculous. And it isn't even consistent while my ping and my enemy's is (at < 60ms on both).

It makes sense when shooting at someone with a bad ping; that's always been the case. But the last patch seriously broke hit detection.

Perhaps read what others are posting before copying and pasting the same thing you posted?

I did.

Some people just say it's people not being able to aim properly.
Others say it's some sort of hit detection issue, which may or may not have something to do with how fast mechs are moving.
Others say it has to do with the players' ping, though aren't quite certain what causes what exactly (high/low ping on the shooter/target side involves multiple possible situations and results).

Seems to me like no one really knows anything about what's causing this. Having to lead 1-2 mech sizes would be a relevant hint to find out the cause... if it weren't high-grade bovine feces (I've been lasering Lights directly and causing damage as normal).

So yes... seriously.

If anyone has accurate and relevant information, I think we could really use the enlightenment.

EDIT: I should probably add what little I know:

I've been able to laser fast mechs (that were moving in opposite directions in a classic circle duel) directly and do damage as normal. I'm supposed to have excellent ping since my ISP is in Montréal, close to ÉJI where the servers are apparently located.

It's possible those Lights also had good ping, which would mean two people with good ping might have no issues attacking each other.
It's also possible those Lights had bad ping, in which case it would mean an attacker with good ping also gets no aiming issue no matter what the target's latency is.

Some people report having been needing to lead their fast target by a significant distance; I don't know if they need to lead all their fast targets, just those that were moving in opposite directions, if they have good/bad ping or if their target had good/bad ping, so I could go through every case and still wouldn't be able to guess anything.

That's all I got.

Edited by De La Fresniere, 30 October 2012 - 01:23 PM.

[King Arthur IV]

bump posting to keep this aware

[Gallowglas]

If you think about it, the issue with light mech lag makes sense. If two clients send information back to the server at the same rate and one client has a mech that is twice as fast as the other, the slower mech will have its location synched with the server at more points along its path. It's even worse when a fast mech has higher ping. The higher the ping, the fewer points along its path that it's being synched with the server. That basically leaves you with the option of sending more location synchs for faster mechs (which contributes to higher network traffic) or you end up with fast mechs that appear to be places where they really aren't because the client thinks they're one place while the server thinks they're somewhere else. Add in server-side hit detection and you can see why it's a logistics puzzle. Basically, all mechs have this issue, but it's just more obvious in fast mechs because they change location more rapidly.

MWO isn't the only game that has had to deal with this sort of quandry and it won't be the last. The trick is finding the balance of network traffic, poll rate, etc. to provide a proper balance.

Edited by Gallowglas, 12 December 2012 - 10:21 AM.

[Kousagi]

Gallowglas is correct. Also to add to that, PGI Knows about the problem... They have even addressed it in a post...

http://mwomercs.com/...t-code-roadmap/

[Devils Advocate]

Is there any netcode right now? If there is, can we remove it? I vote we remove whatever code is in there right now until they come up with one that works. I had an easier time hitting guys in Quake 2 with a 250ms ping because at least I knew how much I had to lead. Right now it feels like sometimes the game thinks a guy is going to be there and sometimes it has no idea. With an 80ms ping I should not be leading anything 50-100 meters.

[Roland]

Devils Advocate, on 12 December 2012 - 09:41 AM, said:

Is there any netcode right now? If there is, can we remove it? I vote we remove whatever code is in there right now until they come up with one that works.

I don't think those words mean what you think they mean, chief.

[Orzorn]

It was brutally stupid last night. We had 4 mechs all shooting as much as they could at a Raven, who wasn't even very fast (90). Most of us were connecting and he managed to still last somewhere around 2 minutes against the combined firepower of a Dragon, 2 Atlases, and a Cataphract.

The lagshield is so heavy you often die to a Raven if you're by yourself. You literally can not do more damage to him that he can to you because he's lag-dodging all of your shots, even though you see them land and cause the sparks. I'm probably most afraid of Raven's when I'm alone in a part of the map than of anything else, because I simply can not get damage to stick to them well enough to survive 2 SSRMs and 3 medium lasers.

Devils Advocate, on 12 December 2012 - 09:41 AM, said:

Is there any netcode right now? If there is, can we remove it? I vote we remove whatever code is in there right now until they come up with one that works.

Netcode is a quick term that really means the entire framework of codes and protocols required to send, recieve, and assess the data in the game. You can not simply remove it, as that would mean we could not play the game at all.

Edited by Orzorn, 12 December 2012 - 09:49 AM.

[Gallowglas]

Devils Advocate, on 12 December 2012 - 09:41 AM, said:

Is there any netcode right now? If there is, can we remove it? I vote we remove whatever code is in there right now until they come up with one that works.

I am guessing you have no idea what "netcode" means or you would realize how this doesn't make any sense. In the absence of single-player content executed entirely on your client machine, removing the netcode would leave you without a playable game. The netcode is what allows you to interact with other people. What most people refer to as netcode is simply the code that plays traffic cop as to how movement, hits, and collisions are synched up between different players.

[Kyone Akashi]

De La Fresniere, on 30 October 2012 - 01:14 PM, said:

I've been able to laser fast mechs (that were moving in opposite directions in a classic circle duel) directly and do damage as normal. I'm supposed to have excellent ping since my ISP is in Montréal, close to ÉJI where the servers are apparently located.

This mirrors my own experience. I don't think it hinges just at your ping, as I am connecting from across the ocean, have a ping of ~130ms, and am still able to accurately hit fast movers.

I won't say that the issue does not persist at all, but the rampant oversimplification going on really begins to get annoying. Beginning with people all complaining all about "Lights", completely dismissing that (a) not all Lights are running at velocities of 120+ kph, and that ( there are heavier 'Mechs who reach the same speed. And in another thread someone just complained about "lag shield" when the video he presented as proof showed that he just had crappy fps in general.

If the issue would truly affect so many 'Mechs, people would see them "warping" all over the field as server and clients synchronize position data. I'm not sure about you people, but whilst I -did- witness such things happen, they were a very rare occurrence.

Before people cry "lagshield", they should keep in mind that where it actually exists it would be clearly identifiable whenever a 'Mech "skips" a couple meters forward or to the sides or rubberbands back, rather than running a smooth path.