32 replies to this topic

[General Taskeen]

Again, simple fix, if the cluster round acted like a flak-burst (like its supposed to) at close range to its intended target, it would be fine.

As for the MG, another simple fix, re-develop it and give it 2 damage like its TT value. All other weapons have their TT damage value.

[Kaox Veed]

It just needs the dual fire mode so that it function correctly, it is an advanced autocannon, in general it is suppose to be superior to a regular one, like an ultra having a faster firing rate.

[Khanahar]

hammerreborn, on 12 December 2012 - 12:44 PM, said:

I know this, I more meant that an AC 10 has a 45%(? I think this is the number given) chance to crit, while an lbx-10 would get 10 chances for crit damage, possibly resulting in a higher average damage overall (just not to the same critial slot, but again, that could be a bonus, hit ammo or heat sinks simultaneously). Again, this requires all 10 to hit the internals, but was just more of a hypothetical answer (that lbx is a crit seeker as it has more chances to crit per unit time).

IFF the LB-10X pellets all hit in one spot, they have an equal average critical damage potential to the AC/10. But even then, it's less useful. The LB-10X pellets have more chances to crit, sure. But they also do less damage to components in exact proportion to their likelihood to hit. However, even this equality is dependent on all the LB-10X pellets critting on one component. If a AC/10 crits, it autokills the component (unless its an engine). It is VERY unlikely that an LB-10X could do that to anything except a Gauss Rifle.

I suppose the advantage that could be imagined for the LB-10X right now is more consistent critting, but this does not nearly offset the lesser damage, damage spread, and importantly, the unlikelihood that all pellets will hit one 'mech segment.

Edit:
Since I'm getting into the math of it, I guess the point could be made that the AC/10 has a good chance to waste some of its crit damage on the 2x or 3x roll against a non-engine component. But I still don't think the lack of overkill comes close to making up for the spread of hits and critical hits with the LB-10X.

Edited by Khanahar, 12 December 2012 - 01:16 PM.

[Alfred VonGunn]

Sybreed, on 12 December 2012 - 12:23 PM, said:

You mentionned buffs to machine gun crit damage as a way to make it more viable as a weapon (and it also makes it more like TT's machine gun), but what about the LBX?

It's also a weapon that's supposed to seek critical hits. Right now, it's performing poorly as a crit seeker and as a weapon overall (spread too wide being the main issue)

Any chance to buff any of these 2 parameters (crit chance and overall damage)? Or, do you have specific plans for the weapon?

Huh? The LBX is awesome now... it is the only direct fire weapon that has a reasonable chance with the current lag armor on lights.. The crit chance is a straight up chance with EACH HIT from any weapon.. The LBX has a higher chance because it in theory can get 10 hits in a single shot. Why should an LBX 10 do more then 10 points of damage?

[Jooky SeaCpt]

hammerreborn, on 12 December 2012 - 12:28 PM, said:

Wouldn't LBX have an innate buff as a crit seeker since if you unload fully into the torso you get 10 simultaneous rolls for crits/slot damage?

The problem isn't how many rolls you get, it's how much damage each of those does to a component. Right now Gauss Rifle has 3 hitpoints, Engines have 15 (though crits on an engine currently do nothing except make repairs more expensive), and everything else has 10 hp's. Each pellet does 1 point of damage. This means that for an LB-10X to destroy an item, not only would all ten pellets have to roll a crit, but every pellet would have to hit the same item in that component area (or just three for the Gauss Rifle).

For more information on how crits work, I recommend Selfish's excellent guide, "Crits and You - A Brief Guide".
http://mwomercs.com/...18#entry1567018

Edited by Jooky SeaCpt, 12 December 2012 - 01:28 PM.

[Roland]

Alfred VonGunn, on 12 December 2012 - 01:20 PM, said:

Huh? The LBX is awesome now... it is the only direct fire weapon that has a reasonable chance with the current lag armor on lights..

Yeah.. and each pellet does a trivial amount of damage.

Alfred VonGunn, on 12 December 2012 - 01:20 PM, said:

The crit chance is a straight up chance with EACH HIT from any weapon.. The LBX has a higher chance because it in theory can get 10 hits in a single shot. Why should an LBX 10 do more then 10 points of damage?

Because while you have lots of chances to get critical hits, each critical hit is trivial... You need to score 10 critical hits with LBX10 pellets to do the same damage as a PPC, and actually destroy a component.

The fact that components have health in this game, instead of just being destroyed by critical hits, means that scoring 10 tiny critical hits actually is actually less effective than simply scoring one big critical hit... since the big critical hit will actually destroy a component, where as the little ones may just scatter across different components in that section, and not destroy any of them.

[Lefty Lucy]

Sybreed, on 12 December 2012 - 12:23 PM, said:

You mentionned buffs to machine gun crit damage as a way to make it more viable as a weapon (and it also makes it more like TT's machine gun), but what about the LBX?

It's also a weapon that's supposed to seek critical hits. Right now, it's performing poorly as a crit seeker and as a weapon overall (spread too wide being the main issue)

Any chance to buff any of these 2 parameters (crit chance and overall damage)? Or, do you have specific plans for the weapon?

While I obviously welcome any buff that will make the MG a reasonable weapon, it is absolutely *not* a crit seeker in the TT game.

[Valder]

Sybreed, on 12 December 2012 - 12:23 PM, said:

You mentionned buffs to machine gun crit damage as a way to make it more viable as a weapon (and it also makes it more like TT's machine gun), but what about the LBX?

It's also a weapon that's supposed to seek critical hits. Right now, it's performing poorly as a crit seeker and as a weapon overall (spread too wide being the main issue)

Any chance to buff any of these 2 parameters (crit chance and overall damage)? Or, do you have specific plans for the weapon?

Put two LBX in an atlas along with 2 or 3 SRM 6's (depending on Atlas model). Fire all at same time at close range. Use mega shotgun to crush all enemies and profit.

I can't imagine how scary this build would become with LBX buffs.

[Valder]

Tennex, on 12 December 2012 - 12:30 PM, said:

machine guns should be able to shoot down SSRMs and LRMs.

Good reason to bring a set of MGs. Since SSRMs heading for your CT is pretty much uncounterable once its fired.

You can shoot down missiles with any weapon. I've shot down streaks coming at me with lasers before. Jenner was directly in front of me at 75m, I shot lasers at him, he shot streaks at me while lasers were still on, and POOF! Missiles destroyed.

Edited by Valder, 12 December 2012 - 01:41 PM.

[Zyllos]

LBX just needs 75% of the pellets to hit their target at maximum optimum range. Or tighten spread, that is.

[Khobai]

LB10X needs to fire like a cylinder instead of a cone.

Additionally it needs the ability to switch between cluster and slug rounds

[hammerreborn]

Jooky SeaCpt, on 12 December 2012 - 01:27 PM, said:

The problem isn't how many rolls you get, it's how much damage each of those does to a component. Right now Gauss Rifle has 3 hitpoints, Engines have 15 (though crits on an engine currently do nothing except make repairs more expensive), and everything else has 10 hp's. Each pellet does 1 point of damage. This means that for an LB-10X to destroy an item, not only would all ten pellets have to roll a crit, but every pellet would have to hit the same item in that component area (or just three for the Gauss Rifle).

For more information on how crits work, I recommend Selfish's excellent guide, "Crits and You - A Brief Guide".
http://mwomercs.com/...18#entry1567018

I know how crits work. My response was to arguing about making LBX a crit seeker, which I argued it already is because it has a very high likelyhood of landing at least 3-5 critical hits per shot (50% chance per pellet, 8-10 pellets), and while those individual crits aren't giant damage, it still is a "seeker".

Though really I think the argument between AC/10 vs LBX-10 in terms of crit seeking is kinda pointless because how long is a mech going to last getting shot by either into exposed internals for the crits to really matter >.>

Edited by hammerreborn, 12 December 2012 - 01:51 PM.

[Ranger207]

What the LBX really needs... is switchable solid rounds.