383 replies to this topic

[EmptySkull]

Lonestar1771, on 12 December 2012 - 02:24 PM, said:

Ffs IT IS NOT A DEDICATED INFANTRY WEAPON. Get it through your thick and empty skull already!

Did someone call me?


I like the sound MG make. But they do suck right now. When I heard they were going to buff them I was like yeah! Maybe if you have an extra half ton or 2 you could bring em on a light. Then strip the armor on a light and pop that xl engine quick!

Dunno. All the talk of realism is kinda silly in a fictional game.(talking about the only anti infantry rant)

Edited by EmptySkull, 14 December 2012 - 07:35 PM.

[MustrumRidcully]

Pr43T0r14N, on 14 December 2012 - 05:54 PM, said:

MG should be pathetically weak against armor, not so versus unarmored(exposed, weak, fragile) parts. A crit buff would give the MG a niche role, as stated before, making it only useful against open armor sections, possibly extremely so.

Unless the weapon causes instant destruction of internals or can cause internal damage through armour, I see no use for a weapon in this "niche". Critical hits in MW:O are not entirely irrelevant, but they are not that important that it's worth it equipping a weapon that's only useful to damage internal components. (And the idea of causing internal damage through armour sounds horribly broken.)

[Khobai]

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Unless the weapon causes instant destruction of internals or can cause internal damage through armour, I see no use for a weapon in this "niche".

Machine Guns should do 0.06 damage. That would make them useful on their own. In addition to that they should do x2 crit damage all the time. That would simply be a bonus rather than a niche.

[MadDokGrotsnik]

GAU-8 Avenger is technically a machine gun and it fires 30mm armor-piercing explosive ammunition at 4200 Rounds Per Minute. And it opens up anything its pointed at even tanks like they are made of tissue paper.

Also technically if you account for the size of battle mechs in Mechwarrior they should be able to mount something of that size as a Machine gun without much issue.

http://en.wikipedia....i/GAU-8_Avenger

[Tickdoff Tank]

Khobai, on 15 December 2012 - 06:18 AM, said:

Machine Guns should do 0.06 damage. That would make them useful on their own. In addition to that they should do x2 crit damage all the time. That would simply be a bonus rather than a niche.

I think 0.067 damage is what a lot of people are asking for. Personally, I would like to see 0.08 damage per bullet.

Edited by Tickdoff Tank, 15 December 2012 - 06:28 AM.

[Khobai]

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GAU-8 Avenger is technically a machine gun and it fires 30mm armor-piercing explosive ammunition at 4200 Rounds Per Minute. And it opens up anything its pointed at even tanks like they are made of tissue paper.

I dont know if id call that a machine gun. Its more like a car-sized gatling gun that fires combat mix (explosive shells mixed with uranium tipped armor piercing shells).

[Khobai]

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I think 0.067 damage is what a lot of people are asking for. Personally, I would like to see 0.08 damage per bullet.

Well a MG is supposed to do 2/3rds the dps of a small laser. So if a small laser does 1 dps the MG should do 0.67 dps. So yeah, 0.06-0.07 would be about right. Plus add in a x2 crit damage bonus. And I think the MG would be fairly decent.

[Ravewolf]

For goodness sake, it's a GAME.

I don't care if it makes perfect real world sense to have anti-mech machine guns or not, they would be fun! Personally, I would love me some effective machine guns.

Pew, pew, pew!

[Tickdoff Tank]

Ravewolf, on 15 December 2012 - 07:17 AM, said:

For goodness sake, it's a GAME.

I don't care if it makes perfect real world sense to have anti-mech machine guns or not, they would be fun! Personally, I would love me some effective machine guns.

Pew, pew, pew!

They are going to buff them, we just need to see what they do with them.

[Mavairo]

Rofl, on 12 December 2012 - 02:36 PM, said:

Someone mentioned the A-10's primary weapon, and you said it'd probably way less.
then you mention weight of guns, etc.

FYI:
GAU-8
Weight: 619.5 lb (281 kg), and that is with it's static mounting

So... the BT machine gun is actually much larger than the gun you state is way too overpowered for the machine gun in this game... Logic has failed you.

Yeah. The MG in Battletech guys is a short range lower heat AC2. That's it. It's firing cycle should be .25 seconds, with each shot doing 1 damage. This gives ye old bullethose a use against light mechs, not so much vs heavies (since you can just spray and pray the field at that point).

Also, Machineguns are NOT anti infantry weapons when they get bigger. The mechwarrior machine gun weighs in at 500KG. That's heavier than any modern machine gun. For those still in the "zomg it's anti infantry'' camp, I think you need to do research as to just how nasty our Biggest machine gun is. Now give that weapon Steroids, and you have the Mechwarrior equivalent.

From a ''realism'' perspective it makes no sense. From an In game balance perspective, the current machine gun is so laughably bad that I feel bad for the devs for even putting it in the game in it's present form. The funny thing is on the TT it's an AC2. With bonuses for shooting at infantry.

TLDR Stupid OP is Stupid OP.

Edited by Mavairo, 15 December 2012 - 08:10 AM.

[stjobe]

Khobai, on 15 December 2012 - 06:57 AM, said:

Well a MG is supposed to do 2/3rds the dps of a small laser. So if a small laser does 1 dps the MG should do 0.67 dps. So yeah, 0.06-0.07 would be about right. Plus add in a x2 crit damage bonus. And I think the MG would be fairly decent.

The MG is also supposed to do the same DPS as an AC/2, which in MWO is 4.0.
That's clearly overpowered for a MG, but 0.67 is also clearly underpowered in my opinion. Make it an even 1 DPS.

[Tickdoff Tank]

stjobe, on 15 December 2012 - 08:13 AM, said:

The MG is also supposed to do the same DPS as an AC/2, which in MWO is 4.0.
That's clearly overpowered for a MG, but 0.67 is also clearly underpowered in my opinion. Make it an even 1 DPS.

I would be happy with 1 DPS, which is the same as a small laser, but I think the MGs should do slightly less than the SL.

[Mavairo]

Tickdoff Tank, on 15 December 2012 - 08:30 AM, said:

I would be happy with 1 DPS, which is the same as a small laser, but I think the MGs should do slightly less than the SL.

Why? At minimum it weighs .5 tons more. It's DPS needs to be -at least- what the SL's is.

[Craftyman]

Simplest solution to this problem is to replace mech internals with infantry holding up the shape of you mech.

[MustrumRidcully]

Craftyman, on 15 December 2012 - 08:37 AM, said:

Simplest solution to this problem is to replace mech internals with infantry holding up the shape of you mech.

This isn't Battletech: Medieval Times!

[Kobura]

Mavairo, on 15 December 2012 - 08:32 AM, said:

Why? At minimum it weighs .5 tons more. It's DPS needs to be -at least- what the SL's is.

The issue is when you have a big pack of them (4MG Cicada for instance) it stacks up, and it shouldn't have to do actual damage if it gets a non-damage related boost to criticalling. I'd love to dispatch a machinegun Cicada to finish knocking out weapons in a skinned bodypart.

All the more tactical options, with proper drawbacks (I'm okay with them doing abysmal actual damage as long as they demolish exposed critical parts, even to the point of doing equally-nearzero structure-points damage)

[shintakie]

Kobura, on 15 December 2012 - 08:56 AM, said:

The issue is when you have a big pack of them (4MG Cicada for instance) it stacks up, and it shouldn't have to do actual damage if it gets a non-damage related boost to criticalling. I'd love to dispatch a machinegun Cicada to finish knocking out weapons in a skinned bodypart.

All the more tactical options, with proper drawbacks (I'm okay with them doing abysmal actual damage as long as they demolish exposed critical parts, even to the point of doing equally-nearzero structure-points damage)

It stacks up when you have a big pack of small lasers as well. Not only that, it stacks up even faster because the small lasers don't have spread, don't have to be held on target for a full 10 seconds (simplified for damage sake), and don't carry the risk of ammo explosions.

The difference? You will almost always be able to put more lasers than ballisitics on a mech.

Note, please don't change my machine guns to cd weapons. Does it make it harder to balance when you have a weapon that has no cd and shoots 10 times a second? Sure. However that is the weapons charm. If it had a shorter cd it'd feel off.

[Khobai]

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The MG is also supposed to do the same DPS as an AC/2, which in MWO is 4.0.

Uh no. The AC/2 was retardedly underpowered in TT so it was MASSIVELY buffed in MWO to make up for that fact. So you should not base the MG on the AC/2. You should base it on the Small Laser which is mostly the same as its tabletop version and still considered balanced.

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That's clearly overpowered for a MG, but 0.67 is also clearly underpowered in my opinion. Make it an even 1 DPS.

No. 0.67 would be fine. 1 DPS would make them too effective on chassis which can boat them (we dont have any at the moment but eventually we will, like one of the flea variants has 6 machine guns for example).

A flea doing 9 dps with 6MGs and 3 small lasers while generating no heat and going 170kph with MASC would be absurdly overpowered... thats as much dps as some assault mechs. Please use common sense before making such suggestions.

Edited by Khobai, 15 December 2012 - 09:20 AM.

[Orzorn]

Khobai, on 15 December 2012 - 09:16 AM, said:

No. 0.67 would be fine. 1 DPS would make them too effective on chassis which can boat them (we dont have any at the moment but eventually we will, like one of the flea variants has 6 machine guns for example).

1 DPS is purely theoretical when you get into the realm of bullet spread. Many of those may not hit, or they will spread around their body as they move, you move, and they torso twist. With 1 DPS, your actual DPS is more likely to be less than that unless they're standing still.

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A flea doing 9 dps with 6MGs and 3 small lasers while generating no heat and going 170kph with MASC would be absurdly overpowered... thats as much dps as some assault mechs. Please use common sense before making such suggestions.

We won't see that variant until 3058.

Regardless of all that, I'd support 0.08 damage, and probably not more. I'm just playing devil's advocate.

Edited by Orzorn, 15 December 2012 - 09:27 AM.

[Tickdoff Tank]

MGs have always done slightly less damage than a small laser (in TT), but to balance that the MGs generate no heat and have ammo.

IMO, a MG that does 1 DPS and generates no heat would be a bit too powerful. I do not think it would be OP, just a little bit too much. If the MG does 0.67-0.8 DPS, is ammo limited, generates no heat, has a 90m standard range *and* gets a bonu to critical damage then I think they would be perfect.

For the bonus to criticals: Possibly double the % chance for a X2 or X3 crit? Or you could leave the chance the same and have all crits do double damage (X4 or X6 total), remember that this is per *bullet*. You score a lot of crits with an MG, but each crit is doing very low damage.