16 replies to this topic

[tib3r]

I have kinda gathered that there really is a weird in between with these two.

The hunch back could have armor on par with a heavy mech if loaded out right and the speed and firepower to keep up with one, but the blackjack could be made to be a little quicker at the expense of armor, however the firepower wouldn't be on the same level.

I am kinda torn between the two right now.

[Jam the Bam]

Depends entirely on your play style, I play both. The blackjack is much more fragile but is capable of moving faster or adding jump jets, whereas the Hunchie is more solid but a bit less manoeuvrable.

I play the BJ-1 as almost a short range jump sniper with an AC20 and it is very effective, but I wouldn't want to get caught in a brawl. As a support mech and for being a bit sneaky in its great though.

The hunchback can be a great close range brawler if played well, the 4SP is probably the easiest to play but swaps the Ballistic for the missiles, it doesn't have the weakness of the big hunch.

I would recommend you try both and simply see what fits your play style.

[Kmieciu]

A Blackjack can do the AC20+XL engine combo, and you can have jump jets as well. I find it surprisingly durable even with an XL engine, whereas a Hunchback looses it's hunch quite quickly.

[NRP]

I've never piloted a Blackjack, but a Hunchie 4H or 4G is very much able to hold its own. Before ghost heat, I'd say the 4P was arguably the best Hunchback.

That said, I'm considering trying a BJ. JJs are fun, and an AC/20 just makes any mech better.

[jper4]

the side torsos on a blackjack don't tend to get shot off that often so it's much more xl friendly than the hunchy.

however other than the 1x a hunchy will have a higher top speed but lacks the JJs of the BJ 1 and 3 which gives the BJ a bit more mobility to counter it's lesser armor and lower speed. hunchies seem to hold up better if caught out by lights than the blackjacks for me personally. no missile slots means no streaks for your blackjack.

with the xl an ac20 or even dual ac 2s (5s too i think) can be squeezed on a blackjack to give you a bit more range to play with. hunchies will be your missile platforms (using the term fairly loosely- it's not a kintaro after all) but unless your lrming the hunch usually goes first when using ssrms or srms (other than the 4sp) there when you come up to brawl. once the hunch is gone you're left with 2 lasers at most. blackjacks tend to get CTed more often while hunchies shed limbs like crazy. only time i lose an arm on my blackjacks is if i have an ac20 there- otherwise it's usually CT first. Hunchy can spread damage around a bit better due to better twist and arm shielding.

hunchies can zombie though with the head laser though while blackjacks can;t so you can live a few seconds longer and hope for the joy of killing something that's ignoring your 1 puny ML/MPL/SPL because you only have 1ML/MPL/SPL. they hate when you do that.

if you like dakka go with the BJ. if you like up close brawling hunchy is the better bet. IMO anyway.

[TheFlyingScotsman]

It really is just playstyle choice. Personally, I can't stand landlocked mechs, so I go with the BJ-1 (xl235, AC20, 2ML). One of my grouping buddies, however, uses a HBK-4P. We both are usually able to deal 400+ in any successful match. (And net at least 200 in a ****** one.)

The HBK has a bit more armor and can work much better with a STD engine. Even if you lose that fat side torso, you still have medium lasers left over. As long as you play it in its intended role, as support for larger mechs, it performs admirably and usually has better heat dispersion than the BJ-1 for the same equipment.

The BJ-1 has less armor and usually needs an XL engine to be effective, otherwise you have to sacrifice firepower, ammo tonnage or useful equipment like JJs. I cannot emphasize enough how effective having JJs is, especially when you know how to use them effectively. It does, however, require a lot of effort to line up shots and get your movement directions correct while in the middle of a brawl or hairy situation.

In short:
BJ-1:
Pros: More agile, has jumpjets, better at avoiding damage through dodging/smaller profile, AC mounting is relatively small and is arm mounted.
Cons: Cannot effectively zombie, very fragile side torsos and very protrusive CT, SSRMs are bugged vs the BJ, and always hit CT from any angle.

HBK:
Pros: Better survivability through damage absorbtion, more firepower or heat dispersion, less fragile CT, CT isn't an SSRM magnet, can zombie, has a face laser.
Cons: Landlocked, less agile, protrusive AC mounting, obvious target, AC mounting is locked to torso.

Universal:
Top at 93kmh with mastery, can effectively make use of an AC20 without sacrificing other equipment, require effort and intuition to survive, easily overwhelmed by multiple heavier units, both are too damn fun.

Hope that helps.

Edited by TheFlyingScotsman, 25 September 2013 - 07:56 AM.

[EmperorMyrf]

I'm not sure where people are getting that the BJ is more maneuverable than the HBK, as all HBKs have an extra 55deg more to play with against the most maneuverable BJ, and 85deg more than the least maneuverable BJ. The BJ is slightly more maneuverable vertically, but is severely limited by its turn arc.

That said, the BJ is advantageous in that pretty much all of its hardpoints are up high, allowing you to expose a very small amount of your torsos while lining up a shot making them ideal long range support platforms. Also the ability to do XL+AC/20 is always attractive, but at least for me it's not enough to make it the superior brawler of the two.

[Beik Ross Norst]

I run an AC/20 2xML BJ-1 and love it. I have a hard time in my Jaegers because I'm used to jumping lol

Edited by Beik Ross Norst, 28 September 2013 - 10:56 PM.

[TheFlyingScotsman]

EmperorMyrf, on 28 September 2013 - 10:08 PM, said:

I'm not sure where people are getting that the BJ is more maneuverable than the HBK, as all HBKs have an extra 55deg more to play with against the most maneuverable BJ, and 85deg more than the least maneuverable BJ. The BJ is slightly more maneuverable vertically, but is severely limited by its turn arc.

That said, the BJ is advantageous in that pretty much all of its hardpoints are up high, allowing you to expose a very small amount of your torsos while lining up a shot making them ideal long range support platforms. Also the ability to do XL+AC/20 is always attractive, but at least for me it's not enough to make it the superior brawler of the two.

Jumpjets add more maneuverability than any other asset in the game. It's simply a matter of knowing how to use them. I have killed untold piles of ac20 hunchies simply by flying over them and out-maneuvering them. What the BJ lacks in horizontal, it more than makes up for in vertical.

Edited by TheFlyingScotsman, 03 October 2013 - 02:23 PM.

[oldradagast]

The Black Jack is a good mech and currently the most fast and maneuverable way to mount a large ballistic weapon in the game. Jump Jets are not to be underestimated.

That being said, I enjoy my Hunchbacks, despite the large weapon pod and lack of jumpjets. They are reasonably tough and can really dish out the pain. Just get them up to a Standard 250 or greater engine so they are fast enough and have some fun.

[Kitane]

Hunchbacks are sitting at perfect sweet spot of firepower, protection, speed and agility. Those 5t missing on BJ chassis are noticeable, forcing Blackjacks to make sacrifices, the STD engine being the first to go.

Both mechs are equally capable when things go according to their pilot's plan, but the superior durability of Hunchback helps tremendously when things go sour.

[Cactus In The Rear]

tib3r, on 22 September 2013 - 05:13 PM, said:

I have kinda gathered that there really is a weird in between with these two.
The hunch back could have armor on par with a heavy mech if loaded out right and the speed and firepower to keep up with one, but the blackjack could be made to be a little quicker at the expense of armor, however the firepower wouldn't be on the same level.
I am kinda torn between the two right now.

blackjacks carry more firepower than hunchbacks because XL engines are viable on a bj and horrible on a hunchie ive owned both btw and prefer the bj since it has JJs the hbk is more durable overall but with the JJs i can last longer in a bj

[Cactus In The Rear]

i use my BJ for brawling and it did so much better than my HBK-4G that i sold the HBK i use ac20 3ml 1mg and on the 4g i used 2ml 1mpl 1 ac20

[Jman5]

Stay away from the Blackjack until they fix the issue with targeting bones being non-existant. Streaks are going to ruin you in the meantime.

[Cactus In The Rear]

EmperorMyrf, on 28 September 2013 - 10:08 PM, said:

I'm not sure where people are getting that the BJ is more maneuverable than the HBK, as all HBKs have an extra 55deg more to play with against the most maneuverable BJ, and 85deg more than the least maneuverable BJ. The BJ is slightly more maneuverable vertically, but is severely limited by its turn arc.

That said, the BJ is advantageous in that pretty much all of its hardpoints are up high, allowing you to expose a very small amount of your torsos while lining up a shot making them ideal long range support platforms. Also the ability to do XL+AC/20 is always attractive, but at least for me it's not enough to make it the superior brawler of the two.

sir have you ever used jump jets? if you had and knew to use them right then you'd know that you turn twice as fast in the air and can still fire a large ac in a brawl without a lot of accuracy loss

[Kitane]

Xanilos, on 04 October 2013 - 09:18 AM, said:

blackjacks carry more firepower than hunchbacks because XL engines are viable on a bj and horrible on a hunchie ive owned both btw and prefer the bj since it has JJs the hbk is more durable overall but with the JJs i can last longer in a bj

Not a big difference, the only BJ with arguably slightly better firepower is -1DC.

STD250 Hunchback has ~20t for weapon loadout, XL235 BJ has 22 (minus weight of JJ). Their speed is similar, BJ is 4km/h faster and has 9 critical slots less (XL engine + one forced external heatsink).

I find the difference in firepower negligible, unlike their survivability. JJs can help only in some situations, armor and STD engine works every time. Hunchie can also rely on arms to block incoming damage, while arms on BJ are useless as shield arms. Not really a good feature on a mech reliant on XL engines.

Jman5, on 04 October 2013 - 09:32 AM, said:

Stay away from the Blackjack until they fix the issue with targeting bones being non-existant. Streaks are going to ruin you in the meantime.

Lol yeah and also that. Meet a Streaktaro and die in less than 10s as your CT gets hit by laser guided 25 damage every ~3.5s.

Though to be honest, I was playing a lot of matches on BJs recently and I haven't really run into SSRM related deaths. I got lucky, I guess.

Edited by Kitane, 04 October 2013 - 09:51 AM.

[Kitane]

Xanilos, on 04 October 2013 - 09:33 AM, said:

sir have you ever used jump jets? if you had and knew to use them right then you'd know that you turn twice as fast in the air and can still fire a large ac in a brawl without a lot of accuracy loss

I would love to see how that works. I've spend a lot of time training how to turn and change directions in the air while jumping and I've never noticed anything that could "double" the usual turn speed of my legs. Only the ability to cut a corner and run in a new direction after landing.

And that can be countered without JJs with a controlled horizontal separation.