32 replies to this topic

[DeeSaster]

So we get the STK-5S variant of the stalker on next patchday and I cannot get why it comes with CASE and an XL engine.

Of course, of course...sarna and such...but isn't that CASE basically dead weight?

[Omigir]

you can have 1 or 2 crits hit in your left or right torso which could mean a crit that your xl engine takes up, or a crit your ammo takes up at which point your chances of surviving without case are gone.

[Lanessar]

DeeSaster, on 13 December 2012 - 07:44 AM, said:

So we get the STK-5S variant of the stalker on next patchday and I cannot get why it comes with CASE and an XL engine.

Of course, of course...sarna and such...but isn't that CASE basically dead weight?

In game? It will reduce some damage to the engine CT components, possibly saving you a bit on a repair bill. But for 0.5 tons, yes, it's a waste, basically.

[zhajin]

In table top case could protect an xl, not sure on how that worked but its what I have read. Also you can still run case in the arms to protect and xl. but yes as the game is now case in the side torso with an xl is useless.

[Roland]

I believe that in TT, you have flexibility in terms of where you put the extra engine crits from XL engines. Thus, you can have situations where a particular side torso doesn't actually have 3 engine crits in it, and protect that section with CASE, so that even if that section is destroyed the mech isn't blown up.

[Corpsecandle]

I was under the impression that CASE protecting an XL engine is not currently in, but is on the roadmap...I'll see if I can dig it up.

[Steinar Bergstol]

Roland, on 13 December 2012 - 07:50 AM, said:

I believe that in TT, you have flexibility in terms of where you put the extra engine crits from XL engines. Thus, you can have situations where a particular side torso doesn't actually have 3 engine crits in it, and protect that section with CASE, so that even if that section is destroyed the mech isn't blown up.

Incorrect. XLs have always had 3 slots in each side torso for IS engines and 2 for Clan engines. Even with CASE an XL IS mech in tabletop would have a dead engine if the ammo blew in the torso. What it did do was protect the rest of the mech. It wouldn't continue on to the CT and blow apart the engine components, Gyro and such there. Now, in a one-off game... yeah, that doesn't help at all. In a campaign game or if you're playing the MW RPG _then_ it _is_ helpful, since that means there's more left of the mech to salvage or repair.

[Roland]

It's been a long time since I've seen the actual rules, but I'm pretty sure you could move the engine crits into either side torso... and someone else recently confirmed this to be the case.

But without access to the source books, I can't confirm it either way.

It's also kind of moot, since you can't do it in MWO anyway.

[Odanan]

CASE in the side torsos could protect the XL Engine from ammo explosions (by critical hits). Of course, if you are taking critical hits, your torso is almost fully destroyed anyway...
CASE utility is null in the Center Torso, though (if you put ammo in the Center Torso you have mental problems).

In TT, the CASE can go in the torsos only, not in the arms (except for more advanced CASEs like the clanners'). It encapsulates all the ammo (and Gauss Rifles) in that torso and if any of that ammo explodes, the explosion is contained (does not deal damage to the internal structure of the torso).

And in TT you CAN NOT choose where to put the XL Engine. It occupies 3 criticals in each side torso.

[Nahuris]

I have all of the source books for TT Battletech - and have played since 1986 ---- And no, you cannot move those crits.
An XL engine takes 3 additional crits in each side torso.
The only thing that can move crits are certain weapons, where they allow you to combine arm and side torso crits, but only for things like artillery cannons mounted on a mech. And they only allow that, because in Battletech, those particular weapons take up more crits than a mech has in any location.
Nahuris

[Odanan]

(except for the Clan XL Engine, which takes only 2 crits in each side torso)

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Roland, on 13 December 2012 - 07:50 AM, said:

I believe that in TT, you have flexibility in terms of where you put the extra engine crits from XL engines. Thus, you can have situations where a particular side torso doesn't actually have 3 engine crits in it, and protect that section with CASE, so that even if that section is destroyed the mech isn't blown up.

nope they HAD to be LT/RT
and yes case on a mech with an xl is stupid in this game

[Roland]

Nahuris, on 13 December 2012 - 08:02 AM, said:

I have all of the source books for TT Battletech - and have played since 1986 ---- And no, you cannot move those crits.
An XL engine takes 3 additional crits in each side torso.
The only thing that can move crits are certain weapons, where they allow you to combine arm and side torso crits, but only for things like artillery cannons mounted on a mech. And they only allow that, because in Battletech, those particular weapons take up more crits than a mech has in any location.
Nahuris

Well, the AC20 can also have its crits split between adjacent locations as well in TT.

[Kousagi]

Odanan, TT case does not protect the XL, and Case's only effect is it stops the damage bleed over to the next section, so it does do damage to the internal structure and blows off that section. Clans do get a advanced case, but their rules for it is, any section that has ammo in it gets case free of charge, no weight/crit usage.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Roland, on 13 December 2012 - 08:04 AM, said:

Well, the AC20 can also have its crits split between adjacent locations as well in TT.

eh? never saw that rule O.o

Then again as I constantly see on the forums now; the rallying cry for when MWO and TT contradict, "This aint TT"

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 13 December 2012 - 08:06 AM.

[Nahuris]

Odanan, on 13 December 2012 - 08:00 AM, said:

CASE in the side torsos could protect the XL Engine from ammo explosions (by critical hits). Of course, if you are taking critical hits, your torso is almost fully destroyed anyway...
CASE utility is null in the Center Torso, though (if you put ammo in the Center Torso you have mental problems).

In TT, the CASE can go in the torsos only, not in the arms (except for more advanced CASEs like the clanners'). It encapsulates all the ammo (and Gauss Rifles) in that torso and if any of that ammo explodes, the explosion is contained (does not deal damage to the internal structure of the torso).

And in TT you CAN NOT choose where to put the XL Engine. It occupies 3 criticals in each side torso.

Need to re-read those CASE rules - per the current Total Warfare source book, if you have an ammo explosion in a torso with CASE, it destroys all internal in that location, and the back armor, which is blown out.
If you have an XL engine, it automatically takes the 3 crits, because all internals are destroyed... same as if the internal structure was destroyed, but the attack failed to get any crits.... once the internal structure is gone, everything in that torso is gone.

Nahuris

Roland, on 13 December 2012 - 08:04 AM, said:

Well, the AC20 can also have its crits split between adjacent locations as well in TT.

Yep, that, Gauss Rifles, and Artillery cannons and Arrow IV.

Nahuris

[Adridos]

That XL was in place to protect the driver.

We are immortal in the game, though, so feel free to replace it with something actually useful.

[Roland]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 13 December 2012 - 08:05 AM, said:

eh? never saw that rule O.o

Then again as I constantly see on the forums now; the rallying cry for when MWO and TT contradict, "This aint TT"

Ya, this one is definitely in there. You can split the AC20's crits across adjacent sections, and then the firing arc for it ends up being the most restrictive section's firing arc. (ie. if any of the crits are in the side torso, then the weapon can only fire with the side torso's arc)

This came up pretty recently, and someone actually posted up the exact rule that governs it.

[Purlana]

Roland, on 13 December 2012 - 08:04 AM, said:

Well, the AC20 can also have its crits split between adjacent locations as well in TT.

They should do this, dual AC/20 Atlas for the win!

[Roland]

Purlana, on 13 December 2012 - 08:10 AM, said:

They should do this, dual AC/20 Atlas for the win!

eh, I don't think you'd be able to do that on the Atlas anyway, even if you could split the crits.