17 replies to this topic

[KhanCipher]

so i got myself an A1 cat after getting the hunchback to elite, well because i knew that regular srms are crap beyond 100m, and boating SSRMs or LRMs would be rolling the dice with puging, i decided on artimis srms. my build was going to be 6 ASRM 4s + 6 tons of ammo, 300 standard, 10 DHS, endo... but something really caught my eye, first off the ASRM ammo costs the same as SSRM ammo. so already i'm not liking the price-tag of the ASRM build just to run it somewhat effectively. so i got everything in it except for the 300 engine took it out for a spin, lost and died and found a 110k R&R cost waiting for me... after making about 80k. the thing that gets me is that i wasn't even unreasonably boating ammo (1 ton is 25 shots for a srm4), sure i was running ASRMs, but i didn't think that it would hurt me that badly. so i wanted to downgrade to regular srms... then it's asking me 500k just to do just that... then i said F it and sold it for not even close to half of what i dumped into it.

Now before any of you say that i'm a bad pilot, no i'm not a bad pilot, i enjoyed using it, i was using it effectively, but the R&R is forcing me to go back to my HBK-4P that i'm kinda getting a little tired of using all the damn time.

so has anyone had any better luck with the A1, or is ASRMs really that bloody expensive with little to no rewards?

tl;dr i spent alot of c-bills just to find out that the A1 sucks, and the ASRMs are too bloody expensive. and i want some advice on which heavy mech i should try to level.

[Dukarriope]

Try a different config? I like ASRM + ALRM + SSRM?

[Evil Ed]

The key is to not rearm when grinding, and of course know how to use this extreme short distance weapon.

[zuba]

Before ECM I leveled up the A1 with 1x LRM15, 2x SSRM2 and 3xSRM6, which was fun to play and rather effective in many situations. In the ECM era I have yet to find success in any build except the all-SRM close range shotgun. The variant hasn't seen much action, since that build is such a one trick pony.

[Vechs]

Try 6 SRM4 with a 300 XL and jump jets.

The tighter spread and better heat is nice.

Also the smaller crit footprint means you can fill the arms perfectly with 3x SRM4 and double sinks, and use up all the crits.

[nungunz]

Here is my build....usually rack up 600+ damage and 2-4 kills a game with it. Love this thing!:

x4 SRM6 + Artemis
x2 SRM4 + Artemis
8 Tons of SRM ammo

x1 Jump Jets
x14 Double Heat Sinks

352 Points of armor (everything but the legs are maxed out)



ust remember to keep the missile doors open to avoid the firing delay (IE, the '/' key). Also turn off auto-rearm and don't bother rearming the thing.

Edited by nungunz, 14 December 2012 - 03:02 AM.

[The Basilisk]

What you experienced was described several times before in this forum.
Some builds using high end equipment are less than economicaly to drive until you are sure to win.

Why is this so ?
Because you should have to pay for using high level equip.

Using AC2 and standart reactor will give you low rep rates if you run out of ammo and get destroyed 75% of your mech.
But it will also give you a mech with less than optimal tactical abilitys.

So try to find a way between economical and tactical requirements that suits you.
This is a Mercs game.

Win money for reasonable risk.

[Elizander]

Don't re-arm. Just make sure you hurt the enemy team really bad before you go dry.

[Wrenchfarm]

Indeed, turn off auto-rearm and just rely on the free 75%. Look at it this way, if you manage to go through several hundered SRMs, you probably did your part for the team.

Also, not to be a shill for PIR or anything, but I found I was able to run more expensive builds after buying a little premium time. That 50% cash bonus is the only reason I am able to run my AWE-8R with 4xASRM6. If you have the money and feel like it may be a value to you, it may be something to consider - but I understand that is a personal choice.

[Pando]

I only use SRM's right now in my A1. It's really mean. Esp at taking down bigger targets like Atlas or Awesome.

[Jakob Knight]

The problem with the CPLT-A1 (and Catapults in general) is that they were designed to make use of a class of weapons that have been all but removed from playability with the latest patchs (despite what some people would have you believe). Being entirely dependant on missile weapons, two of the three type of missiles in the game (LRMs, SSRMs) have been nullified in actual gameplay, leaving only basic SRMs for the mech to use, a situation the mech was not designed for.

The issue with Artemis repair and reload costs has been well-known, and shows no sign of change. What makes it hurt twice as much is that Artemis is rendered inoperable by any enemy ECM effects, so you end up paying a great sum for a system that the game no longer supports, but are stuck with it because no one told you the devs were going to make it a lemon almost as soon as it was introduced.

As others have said, the only real solution is to not auto-reload, and hope that the people who want the 75 percent free reload remove don't get their way the way the people who couldn't understand how to deal with LRMs got theirs. The other option is to simply avoid combat with anything near your own capabilities...only attack Mediums, and only if you can ambush them at close range. That way, you -might- make up the cost of actually firing on them without having a huge repair bill as well.

[Hammerfinn]

Jakob Knight, on 14 December 2012 - 08:12 AM, said:

The problem with the CPLT-A1 (and Catapults in general) is that they were designed to make use of a class of weapons that have been all but removed from playability with the latest patchs (despite what some people would have you believe). Being entirely dependant on missile weapons, two of the three type of missiles in the game (LRMs, SSRMs) have been nullified in actual gameplay, leaving only basic SRMs for the mech to use, a situation the mech was not designed for.

I think you mean from PUG play. ECM simply forces you to be more selective with your streaks; direct firing LRMS, hunting for that one slow mech or greedy scout that is outside ECM range. Does it end the era of "sit back, get a lock, hit fire, get kills"? Yes. But that's a good thing. All ECM has really done is make direct fire weapons good again.

To the OP:
An effective way to play the A1 is either to boat SRMS, or split your hardpoints between, say, 2 LRM10s and 4 SRM 6s. I'd personally leave off Artemis if you're trying to make money, and you can use the weight for armor and engine.

[Jakob Knight]

Hammerfinn, on 14 December 2012 - 08:59 AM, said:

I think you mean from PUG play. ECM simply forces you to be more selective with your streaks; direct firing LRMS, hunting for that one slow mech or greedy scout that is outside ECM range. Does it end the era of "sit back, get a lock, hit fire, get kills"? Yes. But that's a good thing. All ECM has really done is make direct fire weapons good again.

The Catapult was designed as an indirect-fire support unit. ECM has removed this facet from the game, so I do think my statements are correct. That you cite using LRMs in ways that are both combat ineffective and against the point of the weapons is fairly conclusive proof that you know this to be true.

Your summation that this is a good thing is only personal bais, and not valid, especially when the proof of logic indicates otherwise. LRMs were designed to be used in the manner they were used, and saying it'd a good thing they aren't performing as intended now is just willful blindness to one's own personal preferences, and not an objective point in fact.

The point is that Catapults are now forced to use only one of the three types of weapons systems they were designed to operate with, and one that wasn't even supposed to be their primary. Thus, it is not surprising players will find the mech lacking, since it isn't able to function as it was intended.

[Hammerfinn]

Jakob Knight, on 14 December 2012 - 09:32 AM, said:

Your summation that this is a good thing is only personal bais, and not valid, especially when the proof of logic indicates otherwise. LRMs were designed to be used in the manner they were used, and saying it'd a good thing they aren't performing as intended now is just willful blindness to one's own personal preferences, and not an objective point in fact.

I have still used LRMs and SSRMs effectively, and seen them used effectively by others. Are they much more difficult to use now? Yes. Does this make them less attractive options than before? Yes. Are they completely ineffective and unusable? No!

ECM has drastically shifted the balance, perhaps even too far. But with patience, good teamwork (hard in PUGs, I know) and a little bit of luck you can still use the locking missile systems well.

As far as "how they were designed," given that the same design team chose to implement ECM in the way that they have, as an objective fact, it points to ECM limitations as intended to reduce the use of SSRMs and LRMs. You can still indirect fire support (TAG laser, waiting for your teammates to counter ECM) but it is harder. Maybe too hard, but that's a balance issue; the weapons are still viable, though now there may be better choices for most situations.

[KhanCipher]

i might be tempted to go buy the A1 again to try 6 SRM4s, 8 tons ammo, 300 standard, 13 DHS, endo, and case... but i'm not exactly sure how that'll play out if the free 75% R&R gets removed.

[Bad Brad Keselowski]

If they remove the 75% free rearm they have to tweak otherwise, if not in public games you probably have disco only then. I'm not worried about that.

Get a friend with an ECM atlas and rack up 6 SSRM2. It's a very fun PUG build. ECM-Lighties who think they are cool by circling around you have a stupid look on their face when they get slammed by 12 rockets. It's not difficult to get the lock on them with a Beagle Active Probe and they have a hard time hiding behind territory when you have jump jets equipped.

[MourningZero]

6xSRM6 there is no substitute. Just pretend you have an LB 90-X with a practical 50m range. Have fun one shotting everything under 50 tons, 2 shotting everything under 80 tons, and 3 shotting everything over.

I personally forego artemis just to fit more ammo, heatsinks, speed, and armor - but I know some who swear by the extended reach it can give the SRM6.

Edited by MourningZero, 17 December 2012 - 11:38 AM.

[Ursh]

4 srm6
2 srm4

300xl. max armor. heat sinks. ammo.

don't go solo hunting. Hang with the pack, sit behind a building, bide your time. When things begin to get close, charge someone while chain firing your srms, or alpha someone if you've got a good shot lined up.