43 replies to this topic

[Jacmac]

Fate 6, on 14 December 2012 - 01:28 PM, said:

But that mech is specialized isn't it? Are we not supposed to have specialized mechs now?

If the only mech that was a problem was the A1 with 6 streaks, then fix streak boating, don't break streaks and LRMs for every mech.

It's not that you aren't supposed to have them, but you have to use them as part of a specialized group. In 8-Mans, I've run into a couple of teams where a Streakcat is escorted by two ECM Commandos or Ravens at all times. This makes a pretty effective scout killing team as long as they don't try to take on more than two ECM equipped scouts at the same time.

Otherwise a pseudo-Streakcat needs to be a variant with lasers and maybe one of the lasers being TAG if you really want to run it on your own with any chance at all.

Edited by Jacmac, 14 December 2012 - 01:41 PM.

[Trauglodyte]

Lupus Aurelius, on 14 December 2012 - 01:27 PM, said:

Added to that, in TT, ECM and ECCM were 2 separate packages, and you could only have 1 active at a time, which would at a minimum double the weight and space requirements of the current functionality of MWO guardian ECM.

Wrong! In TT, you can switch any ECM Suite to ECCM mode. Knowing is half the battle. http://www.sarna.net/wiki/ECCM

Edited by Trauglodyte, 14 December 2012 - 01:53 PM.

[Mack1]

I also don't care anymore, I have scrapped my LRm and am going full on pew pew mode now

[Lupus Aurelius]

Traug, you are correct. But that does not invalidate the arguement. And ECM in MWO still a combination of Guardian, Angel, and Null Sig, which generated heat. So again, all the advantages of 3+ ECM systems, with none of the disadvantages. Not counting none of the weapons specifically designed to counter ECM effects.

Edited by Lupus Aurelius, 14 December 2012 - 01:46 PM.

[Fate 6]

Jacmac, on 14 December 2012 - 01:36 PM, said:

It's not that you aren't supposed to have them, but you have to use them as part of a specialized group. In 8-Mans, I've run into a couple of teams where a Streakcat is escorted by two ECM Commandos or Ravens at all times. This makes a pretty effective scout killing team as long as they don't try to take on more than two ECM equipped scouts at the same time.

Otherwise a pseudo-Streakcat needs to be a variant with lasers and maybe one of the lasers being TAG if you really want to run it on your own with any chance at all.

Until I am required to drop with other people, I will base my balance and gameplay comments on dropping alone which is what the majority of players do in any game.

Again, the A1 is the greatest example of the brokenness of ECM. I CAN'T MOUNT TAG STOP TELLING ME TO. If you want to give it an energy hardpoint along with the 6 missile points, go for it. I'll stick in a medium laser, because screw your TAG. I am a heavy support fire mech, not a scout. Get your TAG away from me. I picked a big mech to do damage.

If you want to tell me how to play the game, go for it. Your words will be ignored. ECM tells me how to play the game, and I don't want to play ECMwarrior Online. I paid for a different game.

[KhanCipher]

http://youtu.be/BRBcjsOt0_g

Sure ECM may be fun to use, but what about those on the receiving end? Does their options grow, or get reduced when ECM is used on them? Did PGI think about everyone's experience, or just the experience of a few people?

There's also something else to think about, "Would the clans field ECM in it's current state?" Now you could be wondering why i would be thinking that, but i found 2 variants of the clan front line omnis (the basic 3050 tro stuff) that pack ECM (a Kit Fox, and a Hellbringer). Since there is 2 front line clan mechs that carry ECM stock (and many more considering most clan mechs date back before 3050), we need ECM to be useable under the clan code of honor so they wouldn't just deem 2 of their main icon mechs a dishonor.

Now sure the Loki is a pos, and the kit fox doesn't go faster than 100kph, but it's ECM we should be just focusing on ECM and make it worthwhile, but not make it a requirement.

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[SpiralRazor]

Fate 6, on 14 December 2012 - 01:13 PM, said:

[color=#959595]"If you plan on taking specialized Mech into a match, plan wisely and have alternate weapon systems that will help you with mid to long-range combat."[/color]

I don't think he realizes what specialized means. If you are running a specialized mech with several backup systems it isn't specialized.

Also, some mechs don't have the capability to mount said backup mid-long range weapons (A1 in particular, a mech that is supposed to be specialized).

If they really think ECM is balanced, they must also think the CBill system isn't broken. If that's the case, I'm gonna be done with this game long before beta ends, and a lot of other people will as well.

/signed

I just cant believe Paul is that clueless though.....But perhaps....powerless.

[Tasorin]

Lefty Lucy, on 14 December 2012 - 01:21 PM, said:

I'm pretty happy with ECM too. Fix netcode and there will be literally zero problems with ECM.

+9999

[malibu43]

Post deleted.

I have more important things to do than spend my tme arguing with strangers over video games on the internet. I will continue enjoying MWO.

Edited by malibu43, 14 December 2012 - 01:55 PM.

[SpiralRazor]

Signed for not wanting to play ECM Warrior Online.

ECM should be nice to have, FOR YOUR OWN ******* MECH, not required and certainly not for your team mates to troll with.

[Kristov Kerensky]

Lupus..you have your response, ECM is considered fine as is and working as intended by PGI.

And judging from the actual responses OF the playerbase, most of the players seem to feel ECM is fine as is as well, despite a vocal minority screaming all day and all night about how the game is now totally fubar due to ECM. Just because Chicken Little kept telling everyone the sky was falling did NOT change the simple fact that the sky was not falling, no matter how loudly he proclaimed it was. I rather agree with PGI on the ECM issue, and yes I'm fully aware it doesn't operate exactly as it does in TT, so what? Gauss doesn't, ACs don't, lasers don't, PPCs don't...you see where I'm going here?

As to the 8v8 issues..hey..when you have unlimited and unmatched tonnage drops combined with the obvious kids in the beta more then willingly to exploit every loophole they can, what do you expect?. We can see this in the 8 Atlas DDC vs 8 Raven 3L drops and the fact that more then a few 'organized teams' are doing 2x4 synced drops to keep pugstomping. That will be fixed as the beta progresses, I'm not worried by it and I LIKE seeing which 'organized teams' are full of the exploiters, it lets me know who needs to be avoided and watched as they WILL be the first kids on the block to get the newest hacks and make use of any and all exploits. Goons tend to be on the forefront of that currently in MWO I've noticed, lets see a show of hands for everyone surprised by this....no one huh..go figure. Really..that whole 'squawk' thing..when ALL 8 of you do it on a team in a pug drop...it kinda gives it away...just saying...might want to rethink that..or not..honestly I don't mind seeing you do it, see previous sentence...

[zhajin]

That statement is a little worrysome, because ecm only nerfs a specific type of weapon (lock on missiles), not build "specialization". it does nothing to effect short vs long range builds, nor any real specialized builds other than the streakcat. in fact you could argue it buffed the streak commando, which is s specialized build...

[DoktorVivi]

KhanCipher, on 14 December 2012 - 01:46 PM, said:

Now sure the Loki is a pos, and the kit fox doesn't go faster than 100kph, but it's ECM we should be just focusing on ECM and make it worthwhile, but not make it a requirement.

Hey now! You leave my Loki out of this!

[Jacmac]

Fate 6, on 14 December 2012 - 01:46 PM, said:

Until I am required to drop with other people, I will base my balance and gameplay comments on dropping alone which is what the majority of players do in any game.

Again, the A1 is the greatest example of the brokenness of ECM. I CAN'T MOUNT TAG STOP TELLING ME TO. If you want to give it an energy hardpoint along with the 6 missile points, go for it. I'll stick in a medium laser, because screw your TAG. I am a heavy support fire mech, not a scout. Get your TAG away from me. I picked a big mech to do damage.

If you want to tell me how to play the game, go for it. Your words will be ignored. ECM tells me how to play the game, and I don't want to play ECMwarrior Online. I paid for a different game.

Well you can only bend the way the wind blows otherwise you're simply fighting a no-win scenario. You can stick your head in the sand and complain, but it appears that it is not going to get you what you want.

Edited by Jacmac, 14 December 2012 - 02:03 PM.

[Tennex]

Kristov Kerensky, on 14 December 2012 - 01:51 PM, said:

I rather agree with PGI on the ECM issue, and yes I'm fully aware it doesn't operate exactly as it does in TT, so what? Gauss doesn't, ACs don't, lasers don't, PPCs don't...you see where I'm going here?

Oh wow i didn't know Gauss operated like combined Light Gauss, and AoE heavy PPC for free as well. damn that sounds hella OP

oh wait its ECM thats acting like extra items for free

Edited by Tennex, 14 December 2012 - 01:56 PM.

[Thorn Hallis]

This ain't CBT Online.

[Fate 6]

Gristle, on 14 December 2012 - 01:36 PM, said:

Reduced rewards? The economy is already tight!

That, and they haven't completely fixed the bugs like the black screen. Sometimes I have no choice but to afk.

Jacmac, on 14 December 2012 - 01:54 PM, said:

Well you can only bend the way the wind blows otherwise you're simply fighting a no-win scenario. You can stick you head in the sand and complain, but it appears that it is not gong to get you what you want.

Or I can instead not bend. PGI literally has nothing to gain from alienating players. That is what ECM does. I want this game to be fun because I like Mechwarrior, but if PGI insists on making it un-fun then I (and many others) will take our time and wallets somewhere else.

Edited by Fate 6, 14 December 2012 - 02:02 PM.

[Pygar]

PGI likes it because when they play, they play on organized teams and not in PUGs. ECM is a way different animal in teamplay as opposed to PUGs, because teamwork> ECM.

Anything about ECM that really does qualify as OP is not going to be OP later down the road when there is more content, including the TAG buff, and especially later when we get Command Assets like recon drones and Aerospace/Artillery strikes.

[Fate 6]

Kristov Kerensky, on 14 December 2012 - 01:51 PM, said:

Lupus..you have your response, ECM is considered fine as is and working as intended by PGI.

And judging from the actual responses OF the playerbase, most of the players seem to feel ECM is fine as is as well, despite a vocal minority screaming all day and all night about how the game is now totally fubar due to ECM. Just because Chicken Little kept telling everyone the sky was falling did NOT change the simple fact that the sky was not falling, no matter how loudly he proclaimed it was. I rather agree with PGI on the ECM issue, and yes I'm fully aware it doesn't operate exactly as it does in TT, so what? Gauss doesn't, ACs don't, lasers don't, PPCs don't...you see where I'm going here?

As to the 8v8 issues..hey..when you have unlimited and unmatched tonnage drops combined with the obvious kids in the beta more then willingly to exploit every loophole they can, what do you expect?. We can see this in the 8 Atlas DDC vs 8 Raven 3L drops and the fact that more then a few 'organized teams' are doing 2x4 synced drops to keep pugstomping. That will be fixed as the beta progresses, I'm not worried by it and I LIKE seeing which 'organized teams' are full of the exploiters, it lets me know who needs to be avoided and watched as they WILL be the first kids on the block to get the newest hacks and make use of any and all exploits. Goons tend to be on the forefront of that currently in MWO I've noticed, lets see a show of hands for everyone surprised by this....no one huh..go figure. Really..that whole 'squawk' thing..when ALL 8 of you do it on a team in a pug drop...it kinda gives it away...just saying...might want to rethink that..or not..honestly I don't mind seeing you do it, see previous sentence...

Wait wait wait. You said ECM was ok in one sentence, then call it an exploit in the next. Make up your mind. If dropping 8 Atlas-D-DC's is an exploit I fail to see how ECM is balanced. Because I sure as hell haven't seen complaints about drop groups of 8 Atlas-D's or 8 Raven-2x's. It's drops of 8 of 2 specific variants of 2 mechs.