8 replies to this topic

[Spinning Burr]

I'm exclusively a heavy mech PUG pilot with exception of dabbling with some centurians, but I see the importance of ECM on your team. About 50% of PUG drops have no ECM mech on their side, which is an automatic disadvantage of the same degree as being 1-2 players short in my opinion. You can safely assume that the apposing team probably has at least one ECM mech. I'm considering purchasing an ECM "light" (including cicada in the choices since I consider them to be beefy lights). I'd like some opinions on which is the "best" ECM mech from the 2D, 3L, and 3M? My experience is purely from the battlefield as I've never piloted any of these models or variants myself. Let's not consider the purchase price in the decision since it's ultimately not a factor at all after you have your mech, but only a barrier to entry in obtaining it.

None of the mechs have jump jets. I just learned that jump jets and ECM are for now mutually exclusive technologies in the game. The commando 2D is the only cheap mech to purchase that can load ECM making it the value choice. This is because ECM is rolled into an "XL premium package" on the Raven and Cicada but available for the stock engine commando. It also allows for 3 missile hardpoints, so it's perfect if you want a mini SRM boat or even better a mini streak boat that can't be lock targetted itself.

Besides the stealth streak boat strategy, I don't think the 2D holds up to the other two mechs. Both 3L and 3M are expensive ($5M and $7M). Another thread praises the Raven 3L as the ultimate ECM brawler. I tend to think that the Cidada 3M is the better ECM brawling mech. It's bigger (meaning bigger payload) and faster with its stock XL engine and therefore ultimate top end engine. More armor, more weapons, and more speed equals better mech in my simplistic view. Both mount sufficient beam weapons, so one tradeoff is missiles on the Raven vs one ballistic cannon on the Cicada. Both missiles and ballistics have their pros and cons and supporters. Personally, I think missiles vs ballistics is a fair tradeoff so just becomes personal preference.

The point is I think that the Cicada is the best ECM mech albeit also the most expensive. But you get what you pay for. Interested in other opinions.

[Lefty Lucy]

3L by far. You get lag shield, you get to use streaks, and the enemy doesn't. It's very nearly "god mode" in PUG games.

[ohtochooseaname]

It's a bit of a toss up between the 2D and the 3L. The 2D is much more fragile, but harder to hit, so it actually makes the better brawler vs other ECM's...plus it's cheaper and can have 3 streaks vs the 2 for the 3L. However, the 3L has much more versatility and better potential against larger 'mechs, making it the better option, IMO. You can equip with an XL280 engine for 130 kph, 2 medium lasers, a tag, 2x ssrm2's, ECM module, AMS system (can help vs streaks at mid range), and even a BAP with virtually full armor and little heat problems if you fork out for DHS's, Endo, and of course Artemis for lock-on time. Alternately, I have mine set up with an ERPPC instead of all the support stuff (excluding the ECM) because messing with ballistics at high speed adds some challenge, and it is easier to get kills earlier with it only hitting one area. On the other hand, a fully upgraded 2D is going to cost $5 mil or so (including XL 195 engine), while a Raven is around 13. Speed is king, so you need an XL engine.

I also have a 3M Cicada laser boating with 4 medium lasers (though UAC 5 with 4 SL's works pretty well too). It's pretty effective against anything except for the 3L and the 2D. It's not much of a light killer, but it has strong durability, and it's pretty easy to go for most medium+ back armor for a relatively fast kill. Everyone also ignores the Cicadas in comparison with the 2D or 3L, so I am frequently the last one on my team alive when we lose, so it's usually pretty feasible to run away and hide. Oddly enough, the order of cost goes 2D, 3M, then 3L to have them running well.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Lefty Lucy, on 14 December 2012 - 02:03 PM, said:

3L by far. You get lag shield, you get to use streaks, and the enemy doesn't. It's very nearly "god mode" in PUG games.

so to exploit the game legally; use this mech lol

[Spinning Burr]

ohtochooseaname, on 14 December 2012 - 02:17 PM, said:

It's a bit of a toss up between the 2D and the 3L. The 2D is much more fragile, but harder to hit, so it actually makes the better brawler vs other ECM's...plus it's cheaper and can have 3 streaks vs the 2 for the 3L. However, the 3L has much more versatility and better potential against larger 'mechs, making it the better option, IMO. You can equip with an XL280 engine for 130 kph, 2 medium lasers, a tag, 2x ssrm2's, ECM module, AMS system (can help vs streaks at mid range), and even a BAP with virtually full armor and little heat problems if you fork out for DHS's, Endo, and of course Artemis for lock-on time. Alternately, I have mine set up with an ERPPC instead of all the support stuff (excluding the ECM) because messing with ballistics at high speed adds some challenge, and it is easier to get kills earlier with it only hitting one area. On the other hand, a fully upgraded 2D is going to cost $5 mil or so (including XL 195 engine), while a Raven is around 13. Speed is king, so you need an XL engine.

I also have a 3M Cicada laser boating with 4 medium lasers (though UAC 5 with 4 SL's works pretty well too). It's pretty effective against anything except for the 3L and the 2D. It's not much of a light killer, but it has strong durability, and it's pretty easy to go for most medium+ back armor for a relatively fast kill. Everyone also ignores the Cicadas in comparison with the 2D or 3L, so I am frequently the last one on my team alive when we lose, so it's usually pretty feasible to run away and hide. Oddly enough, the order of cost goes 2D, 3M, then 3L to have them running well.

Thank you for this analysis. It's very insightful. What is the top possible speed for the Cicada 3M and how does that compare with Raven 3L top speed? I agree that speed is king for survivability. Also, what is the largest cannon you can mount on the cicada (with tradeoff in speed and laser weapons of course)? Can it go to AC10 or (gasp) gauss? Also, aren't lasers as useful as streak missiles for killing other fast lights? So is a fast cicada with 4 medium lasers a threat?

Edited by Spinning Burr, 14 December 2012 - 02:51 PM.

[ohtochooseaname]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 14 December 2012 - 02:24 PM, said:

so to exploit the game legally; use this mech lol

It's basically completely unfair vs other lights. The killer for lights is streaks, but other lights can't use streaks on the ECM lights, so the 2D and 3L make short work of them. Against assault and heavy 'Mechs the streaks (as well as medium lasers while moving at high speed) do distributed damage, so you get high overall damage, but have a low actual effect. I mean, you can blow almost 150 streaks on a single Catapult hitting it only from behind without it going down. Other than the situation with other lights, it's not hugely unbalanced in 1v1. In all other situations, SRM's will actually serve you better, but without streaks, another streak ECM will make short work of you and no one on your team will be very effective at stopping them.

[Lefty Lucy]

ohtochooseaname, on 14 December 2012 - 02:51 PM, said:

It's basically completely unfair vs other lights. The killer for lights is streaks, but other lights can't use streaks on the ECM lights, so the 2D and 3L make short work of them. Against assault and heavy 'Mechs the streaks (as well as medium lasers while moving at high speed) do distributed damage, so you get high overall damage, but have a low actual effect. I mean, you can blow almost 150 streaks on a single Catapult hitting it only from behind without it going down. Other than the situation with other lights, it's not hugely unbalanced in 1v1. In all other situations, SRM's will actually serve you better, but without streaks, another streak ECM will make short work of you and no one on your team will be very effective at stopping them.

Which is why I vastly prefer the RVN to the CMD. Those 3 medium lasers help put pin-point damage on heavier mechs that the streaks would take forever to kill, and the armor advantage means the raven's 2 streaks will beat the commando's 2in a duel.

[ohtochooseaname]

Spinning Burr, on 14 December 2012 - 02:51 PM, said:

Thank you for this analysis. It's very insightful. What si the top possible speed for the Cicada 3M and how does that compare with Raven 3L top speed? I agree that speed is king for survivability. Also, what is the largest cannon you can mount on the cicada (with tradeoff in speed and laser weapons of course)? Can it go to AC10 or (gasp) gauss? Also, aren't lasers as useful as streak missiles for killing other fast lights? So is a fast cicada with 4 medium lasers a threat?

Top speeds are almost all the same (almost 140 kph) due to max engine sizes. But....I've never found that extra 10 kph worth it compared with the huge increase in weight. The cicada with the 320 is almost 130, and the raven with the 280 is also almost 130...and the commando with a 195 is 126 kph, from what I remember. Those are the basic engine size points where weight vs speed makes the most sense. You can go AC10 or Gauss on a Cicada, but Gauss requires a 280 engine to have any decent amount of armor, ammo, and defensive lasers (not to mention the ECM). I think AC10 should be feasible, but it seems like and ERPPC would be better, especially for the weight. Double HS make the heat not much of an issue.

[ohtochooseaname]

Lefty Lucy, on 14 December 2012 - 02:54 PM, said:

Which is why I vastly prefer the RVN to the CMD. Those 3 medium lasers help put pin-point damage on heavier mechs that the streaks would take forever to kill, and the armor advantage means the raven's 2 streaks will beat the commando's 2in a duel.

Really, it's more of a who gets the first lock on thing, and if there's any team support. The thing about streaks are that they'll actually blow the arms off of a Raven, which is pretty rare otherwise. The commando also simultaneous fires instead of the shots being a little separated, which is advantageous in certain terrain.

That being said...I'm loving my ER PPC 3L much more than the commando. It's mostly a play style thing...I think 2 medium lasers, an AMS, BAP, extra SSRM ammo and armor instead of the single ER PPC would be a better build, but I'm basically trying to get used to how projectiles are handled in this game.

Oh, and 4 medium lasers on a Cicada is a huge threat: best practice is to get right behind a heavy, and pound the crap out of the back center torso. Works great when they're distracted, and if they notice you, they'll turn around, which exposes their back to your team, and they die...only problem is taking team fire.