142 replies to this topic

[5th Fedcom Rat]

I Will Not Spend A Dollar On Mwo Untill Streaks Are Gone...

So there.

[Deadoon]

5th Fedcom Rat, on 15 December 2012 - 07:19 PM, said:

I Will Not Spend A Dollar On Mwo Untill Streaks Are Gone...

So there.

You will love the clans then, how about 3ton ssrm-6, or no minimum range lrm that weigh half as much as is launchers?

Edited by Deadoon, 15 December 2012 - 07:33 PM.

[SVK Puskin]

I was also disapointed and sad after the last big patch which brought the ECM but fortunately i found a way how to have fun again, but truth is that ECM is key factor so far.

[Kaziganthi]

Deadoon, on 15 December 2012 - 06:31 PM, said:

Actually speaking, since we are using narc capable missiles, we should be paying that 60k per ton of ammo for regular lrm, now that I think about it.

Wee.

Also they get 50% more ammo, same as other weapons, Thing is no other weapon got a damage increase and an ammo increase. Srm and streak got damage, ballistics got ammo, lrm got both.

Obviously reading isnt your forte..

1. You missed the part where I accepted they went from 1pt to 2pts, then dropped back to 1.8...thats a reduction of 10% in damage...

2. Secondary sensors..what secondary sensors....oh you mean your eyes and paying attention to whats going on around you instead of being singleminded and focusing on whats in front of you. Isnt that what the battlemap is for and all those little red dots and the Q function to see what types of mechs are those little red dots. Obviously again..yo much coordination on the part of the player that they need a big flashing neon sign to let them know they are under attack.

3. Missile speed reduced a minor nerf..really?? So in the 5 seconds or so it takes the LRMs to hit that ballistic weapons carrier thats out in the open, they get how many shots off BEFORE they can take cover and missiles lose lock?

4. Your correct about PPC sorry I forgot, but it was reduced to 30m rather than the 60m its supposed to be. AC's have a min range due to targeting restrictions in TT rules, which they found too hard to justify implementing in MWO. Nothing else.

5 but they can identify a non ecm equipped mech just as fine at that distance..strange that? But that is one ecm bonus people are not arguing is it.

6 Look up visual targeting..my Mark I's trump electronic targeting anyday.

7 You do know what NARC is dont you??

Quote "Causing quite a stir when it was introduced in 2587, the Narc system offered a radically different way of improve missile target acquisition. The Narc launcher fires special missiles called pods, which have a powerful homing beacon behind a magnetic head.

The reason the Narc system is superior to the similar Artemis IV FCS is that the target lock is never broken because the homing beacon is attached to the target, and that other friendly 'Mechs can fire missiles equipped to follow the signal without carrying their own Narc beacons."

It is not an ammo upgrade like Artemis. It is a weapon system of its own but does no direct damage when it hits. I could find no reference to specialised NARC LRM's as stated in the last sentence of the above quote

9 none, just a point that it was also a restriction on using an improved weapon system that was nerfed.

I believe all weapons got the ammo increase correct. But ballistics and energy weapons got increased rates of fire, some had heat reductions some had heat increases.

LRM's got the damage increase due to the fact that missiles hit singulary not in lots of 5 as per canon. I'll repeat that, missiles hit singulary not in lots of 5. So therefor the damage they do is a lot more widely spread than they would otherwise be like direct fire weapons.

Oh and looks like you found no evidence to support your "Support weapons" theory.



.

Edited by Kaziganthi, 15 December 2012 - 08:00 PM.

[Marshal Jim Duncan]

Instead of getting rid of EMC, I would like to see some efficiencies that would improve the mech's resistance to this type of attack vector.

[Alfred VonGunn]

MasterGoa, on 15 December 2012 - 09:08 AM, said:

Also, the dev number ONE PRIORITY is to correct leg turning lag.
Going from 55FPS to 6 because I turn is not acceptable, and everyone
I know has the same issue with your game.

Really? EVERYONE? I know maybe 3 people of the dozens I play with Daily that get the 4 FPS bug.. and none of them get it all teh time.. It seems to be part of teh Memory leak they are having trouble tracking.. I for one have never had this leg turning bug EVER... My lowest FPS is normally 18 on my old system using DSL.. now and then it drops to 8 but that is in a nasty fight with 4 or 5 mechs in my face and dozens of weapons firing in my LOS...

My good system runs between 40-55 normally with slight drops into the mid 30s on a busy screen..

So if EVERYONE you know is having this problem then maybe part of it is your local ISP? Or you just don;t know that many people?

The game is still already better then MW4 ever was and is slowly getting better...

[Deadoon]

Kaziganthi, on 15 December 2012 - 07:55 PM, said:

Obviously reading isnt your forte..
Extra research is not yours either.
1. You missed the part where I accepted they went from 1pt to 2pts, then dropped back to 1.8...thats a reduction of 10% in damage...
1-1.8 is still a buff, no matter what they were in between.

2. Secondary sensors..what secondary sensors....oh you mean your eyes and paying attention to whats going on around you instead of being singleminded and focusing on whats in front of you. Isnt that what the battlemap is for and all those little red dots and the Q function to see what types of mechs are those little red dots. Obviously again..yo much coordination on the part of the player that they need a big flashing neon sign to let them know they are under attack.
You know, those 2 slots and part of your cockpits tonnage that is in your head, you take out 1 array, and the other still functions

3. Missile speed reduced a minor nerf..really?? So in the 5 seconds or so it takes the LRMs to hit that ballistic weapons carrier thats out in the open, they get how many shots off BEFORE they can take cover and missiles lose lock?
Missile speed only affects mechs in situations where lrm shouldn't be used in anyways.

4. Your correct about PPC sorry I forgot, but it was reduced to 30m rather than the 60m its supposed to be. AC's have a min range due to targeting restrictions in TT rules, which they found too hard to justify implementing in MWO. Nothing else.
And lrm have an arming time, what else?

5 but they can identify a non ecm equipped mech just as fine at that distance..strange that? But that is one ecm bonus people are not arguing is it.
ECM is a ir through radio, magscan, and uv disruption array, also all mechs already have a built in ecm system, the guardian is just an upgrade.

6 Look up visual targeting..my Mark I's trump electronic targeting anyday.
Yeah, your missiles use a different wavelength than visible, who knew? Oh wait... ir laser guidance, radar guidence, maybe even microwave. Oh, and gecm causes ghost mechs to appear as part of it's jamming, your visual targetting is supposed to be borked while looking at them via sensors.


7 You do know what NARC is dont you??

Quote "Causing quite a stir when it was introduced in 2587, the Narc system offered a radically different way of improve missile target acquisition. The Narc launcher fires special missiles called pods, which have a powerful homing beacon behind a magnetic head.

The reason the Narc system is superior to the similar Artemis IV FCS is that the target lock is never broken because the homing beacon is attached to the target, and that other friendly 'Mechs can fire missiles equipped to follow the signal without carrying their own Narc beacons."

It is not an ammo upgrade like Artemis. It is a weapon system of its own but does no direct damage when it hits. I could find no reference to specialised NARC LRM's as stated in the last sentence of the above quote

Techmanual, page 295, heavy weapon ammunition(mech weapons mostly), Narc-Capable (LRM/SRM/MML) 2x/2x which means that the ammo cost per ton and per shot is doubled.
Page 233 on narc homing pods confirms that they are for use with narc capable missiles.


9 none, just a point that it was also a restriction on using an improved weapon system that was nerfed.
Artemis missiles have always cost double though.

I believe all weapons got the ammo increase correct. But ballistics and energy weapons got increased rates of fire, some had heat reductions some had heat increases.

LRM's got the damage increase due to the fact that missiles hit singulary not in lots of 5 as per canon. I'll repeat that, missiles hit singulary not in lots of 5. So therefor the damage they do is a lot more widely spread than they would otherwise be like direct fire weapons.
You have partial point, however it effectively calcs the multiple hits by single digit, rather than the total, somehting infeasible in a tt environment, when you are dealing with 50+ missiles, it is a for of simplification and each missile still does a single damage, thus cannot overcome bar of even suport vehicle armor. Also, it doesn't jump in bouts of 5 it jumps randomly dependant on number fired.

Oh and looks like you found no evidence to support your "Support weapons" theory.
Page 230 refers to the free worlds league lrm-heavy support units for the reason for flare lrm developments, could find more but i think that will do, considering I was just browsing through it again.

.

Yes, just because you can browse a wiki doesn't mean you know everything about the finer details.

Edited by Deadoon, 15 December 2012 - 09:08 PM.

[Kaziganthi]

Deadoon, on 15 December 2012 - 09:04 PM, said:

Yes, just because you can browse a wiki doesn't mean you know everything about the finer details.

1. they were at 2 when we went to open beta..so a reduction when they went partially live is still a reduction. And yes I said partially live. If it were true beta, they'd be doing a reset prior to going live.

2. Just because you have 2 slots in the head that says sensors doesn't mean anything in this stage of development. The sensors are supposed to be Visual, magnetcic, thermal and seismic, and are supposed to be 360 degrees. Currently we have a 90 degree field of vision on the mech we pilot, plus visual and thermographic, but not true thermographic. Most mechs that run cold would not even been seen on thermo, yet we still can see them. My Com-D runs 0% heat in forest snow and frozen city, yet can still be see on thermo. We have no seismic or magnetic yet.

3. huh? so your saying a mech standing at 900m shouldnt have the need to be targetd by LRM's? So we use Guass and PPC/ERPPC AC2's. instead....

4 all missiles have an arming time, so what else you got

5. ECM is not a light disruption show....It is electronic counter measures. Where in that does it state it disrupts UV? If it is a UV didruptor as well, then it should affect all lasers. Bring on the laser disapation on ECM and watch what happen that you believe it does. Yes all mechs DID have a form of ECM, it weighed 7 tonnes and took as many slots as an AC5. The current for of ECM on mechs is called blocking LOS.

6. We don't have GECM in game at the moment..and there is such a thing as cockpit glass. If we were relying on mech sensors they could plant them all over the mech and have a full 360 degree view which we dont. And using my Mark 1's means dumbfiring...They arm as soon as they leave the tube and go in a straight line. Yep you could get out of the way..but at less than 180m if I did that, guaranteed some will hit in that travel time and do damage.

7 and those are for use by mechs other than the firing mech that fires the NARC. So they can all home in on the same target. Basically you'd have a scout armed with Narc, he'd fire at the target then call the rain.


It's not infeasable to do 50+ rolls, just time consuming. They did it to speed up the game process..just like they did with the indrouction of some of the clan/IS weaponry (Guass, ER PPC).

Just because you have a unit that is designated as a LRM-Heavy support unit still does not relegate the weapon to a support weapon. Some units are predominately Assault class, does that mean all mechs in that unit are assault?

[Kurios]

Where can I buy my Madcat? Please let me in on that secret

[Grand Ayatollah Kerensky]

Someone on the moderating staff needs to get the whining under control; the MWO forums have a terrible reputation because of it.

[Speerit Ward]

ECM is just fine, and im a Catapult Pilot. I run a A1 most of the time and streaks are out of my pocket at this point, but im not whining. I just replaced it with more SRM regulars.

My C-4 LRM boat is hard to drive, yes. But if i dont PuG and actually run a 4-man, I can count on some tag, and some counter-ECM. Plus SOMEONE on the enemy team is gonna step outside of their ECM coverage range.



ECM is modern warfare. Learn to adapt, or simply go away and let us enjoy the challenge.

Sincerely, NON-ECM user/ Cat driver.

[Deadoon]

Kaziganthi, on 15 December 2012 - 09:30 PM, said:

1. they were at 2 when we went to open beta..so a reduction when they went partially live is still a reduction. And yes I said partially live. If it were true beta, they'd be doing a reset prior to going live.
I was comparing to canon...

2. Just because you have 2 slots in the head that says sensors doesn't mean anything in this stage of development. The sensors are supposed to be Visual, magnetcic, thermal and seismic, and are supposed to be 360 degrees. Currently we have a 90 degree field of vision on the mech we pilot, plus visual and thermographic, but not true thermographic. Most mechs that run cold would not even been seen on thermo, yet we still can see them. My Com-D runs 0% heat in forest snow and frozen city, yet can still be see on thermo. We have no seismic or magnetic yet.
Mechs generate and display heat due to the dispersion baffles and heatsinks. Also, I was refering to mech creation and damage mostly, you can lose one sensor and still function with only minor issues. Here's a tip, look at a standing still cool mech on caustic, it almost blends in at longer ranges. Yeah, that glow of mechs is just because your reactor is emiting heat and your heatsinks are working properly.

3. huh? so your saying a mech standing at 900m shouldnt have the need to be targetd by LRM's? So we use Guass and PPC/ERPPC AC2's. instead....
If he is standing still yes you can hit him without lock on, who knew?

4 all missiles have an arming time, so what else you got


5. ECM is not a light disruption show....It is electronic counter measures. Where in that does it state it disrupts UV? If it is a UV didruptor as well, then it should affect all lasers. Bring on the laser disapation on ECM and watch what happen that you believe it does. Yes all mechs DID have a form of ECM, it weighed 7 tonnes and took as many slots as an AC5. The current for of ECM on mechs is called blocking LOS.
Gamma, uv, visible, ir, microwave, radio, all electromagnetic waves from the same source, the photon. Also the e-war suite is not what i was refering to, that is another, more primitive upgrade to the built in one, all mechs already have a basic ecm built into them, just it is so weak that it is mostly just notifies everything around you that you just booted up and prevents really old tech guided weapons from working properly. Also, showing a uv light on something doesn't disrupt up light going through it. If that were true, ir lasers wouldn't blind us instantly even though we emit ir radiation. Also look up what the GECM is, please.

6. We don't have GECM in game at the moment..and there is such a thing as cockpit glass. If we were relying on mech sensors they could plant them all over the mech and have a full 360 degree view which we dont. And using my Mark 1's means dumbfiring...They arm as soon as they leave the tube and go in a straight line. Yep you could get out of the way..but at less than 180m if I did that, guaranteed some will hit in that travel time and do damage.
Woah, what game are you playing , GECM, Guardian ECM. Also, IS lrm specifically do not arm until 180 meters and fire at ballistic trajectories(arced), clan lrm insta arm and fire in straight lines. Understood? And nothing is preventing you from shooting at jammed targets, they are still there they are still visible, you just can't get an electronic weapons system to lock unless you can bypass the jamming.(hint: only the Bloodhound active probe can do that, wait about 5 years)

7 and those are for use by mechs other than the firing mech that fires the NARC. So they can all home in on the same target. Basically you'd have a scout armed with Narc, he'd fire at the target then call the rain.
You didn't even read did you.
Page 230 disagrees, they are in the same category as artemis enhanced missiles, a variant designed to work with new tech. You can fire them like regular missiles, artemis can do the same as well.(technically you can load artemis missiles in a regular launcher,and vice-versa, but they are just double cost no benifit missiles at that point)
Do you expect to get 4g on a 3g network?



It's not infeasable to do 50+ rolls, just time consuming. They did it to speed up the game process..just like they did with the indrouction of some of the clan/IS weaponry (Guass, ER PPC).
Infeasible in the sense of takes far too long. Remember, infeasible, not impossible. also, if you get a perfect roll you still need to determine where the rounds hit, which is 1 roll per round.

Just because you have a unit that is designated as a LRM-Heavy support unit still does not relegate the weapon to a support weapon. Some units are predominately Assault class, does that mean all mechs in that unit are assault?
Yep, a lmg is fire support weapon, but it is equiped on the squad level. It is a support weapon, just a widely distributed support weapon, like light mortars or grenade launchers. Also an assault lanse is based on average tonnage, 3 higlanders and a commando is actuallt a heavy lance, despite being 3 assaults and a light. but if it were a jenner, it would ba an assault

Also 0% heat means that your mech is cooling off more than it is absorbing from the atmosphere.

Edited by Deadoon, 15 December 2012 - 10:11 PM.

[Postumus]

I wish people understood that "voting with their feet", or their wallet as it may be, does not involve making giant ranty whining forum posts. Don't like the game? Can't be bothered to give feedback (IN THE FEEDBACK THREAD), wait a few weeks or a couple months for things to change? Then mooch off, DL Hawken if you haven't already, or Planetside, but please do it quietly. General does not need your doom, thanks, it has enough.

[Deadoon]

Postumus, on 15 December 2012 - 10:21 PM, said:

I wish people understood that "voting with their feet", or their wallet as it may be, does not involve making giant ranty whining forum posts. Don't like the game? Can't be bothered to give feedback (IN THE FEEDBACK THREAD), wait a few weeks or a couple months for things to change? Then mooch off, DL Hawken if you haven't already, or Planetside, but please do it quietly. General does not need your doom, thanks, it has enough.

Bit late for that, but a refreshing change from the current state of affairs.

[Kaijin]

Speerit, on 15 December 2012 - 10:06 PM, said:

ECM is just fine, and im a Catapult Pilot. I run a A1 most of the time and streaks are out of my pocket at this point, but im not whining. I just replaced it with more SRM regulars.

My C-4 LRM boat is hard to drive, yes. But if i dont PuG and actually run a 4-man, I can count on some tag, and some counter-ECM. Plus SOMEONE on the enemy team is gonna step outside of their ECM coverage range.



ECM is modern warfare. Learn to adapt, or simply go away and let us enjoy the challenge.

Sincerely, NON-ECM user/ Cat driver.

I cannot take anyone seriously who 'likes' their own posts.

[Bluntasaurus]

Randodan, on 15 December 2012 - 12:28 PM, said:

In today's military only light A-A missiles use heat. And even they can be dodged with flares. Most other A-A missiles use radar, which can be jammed by ECM. ECM of course can be burnt through with ECCM.

I would like to see the SSRMs be based on heat for target acquisition, rather than radar though. That would be a nice touch.

Or leave the streaks as is and make the useless srms heat lock. Then add flares as a counter. ECM added a challenge but it can be countered. I am a noob running a C-2D with 3 Streaks.

Edited by Bluntasaurus, 16 December 2012 - 05:55 AM.

[Tilon]

Wingbreaker, on 15 December 2012 - 09:10 AM, said:

Enjoying this game for more than a decade

Doesn't know how missiles work in BT.

Go play the board game jackalope. ECM doesn't alter the hit chance of Direct LRM fire.

Who doesn't know how missiles work in BT? You.

[Dirkdaring]

MasterGoa, on 15 December 2012 - 09:08 AM, said:

Now, I have two mechs, two MadCats, one
long range and one short range.

You really do suck if you can't win when you have clantech that no one else has.

[TotalDisorder]

Tickdoff Tank, on 15 December 2012 - 09:18 AM, said:

I have seen quite a few scoreboards that even more lopsided than the one you posted. The only difference is that the winning team had no ECM and the losing team thought ECM made them invulnerable.

Lolz for the laughs. Doesn't happen with even skilled teams. :-) Bad troll is bad.

[N0MAD]

Let me get this right OP, you are not going to spend money until your terms are met?. This from a F2P account?
Since the game has progresed this far without your $ anyway i doubt you will be missed. Seeya.