142 replies to this topic

[Kaziganthi]

8RoundsRapid, on 15 December 2012 - 11:06 AM, said:

I've stated this many times in several different threads on this topic. No one seems to notice or care. They just want to argue, point fingers, and tell each other how stupid and bad at MWO they are.

Your bashing your head against a wall, as the brawlers don;t want to listen to that logic. They don't want to use battlefield tactics, but all want to run under a cloak of invisibility straight to the enemy.

Reminds me a bit like that scene from Eric The Viking where he's jumping around on the boat with a towel (Aka the Cloak invisible) on his head.

Edited by Kaziganthi, 15 December 2012 - 11:21 AM.

[Deadoon]

This post is riddled with problems;
1: The missiles lock on via constant communications with the source, similar to wire guided missiles
2: Ecm is just a radar jammer, it is a wide band disruptor that floods the area around it with a wide variety of signals, from ir to radio and uv, magscan and sonar, a beagle can detect these bubbles, but cannot ID anything within them due to the interference.
3: Information warfare is key, denial of information is just as important as having more information. Ecm has the denial, beagle is the more, thing is beagle is gimped currently, so denial is more powerful.

Also, in response to the "Brawler" argument, the maps we have currently practically encourage brawling, that is the problem unto itself. Larger wide open maps usually do not have such an issue.

Edited by Deadoon, 15 December 2012 - 11:21 AM.

[8RoundsRapid]

Kaziganthi, on 15 December 2012 - 11:13 AM, said:

Your bashing your head against a wall...

Brother, I know it.

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

8RoundsRapid, on 15 December 2012 - 11:06 AM, said:

I've stated this many times in several different threads on this topic. No one seems to notice or care. They just want to argue, point fingers, and tell each other how stupid and bad at MWO they are.

And they like their 300m pewpew game. When I think of these people, I think of people that can't learn to swim. So they needed baby floats to ensure they couldn't drown. Piranha has now given you your baby floats. Now you can just skip happily in a field or fish at the lake and those big mean nasty LRMs won't hurt you again. Just huddle near the ECM umbrella. Rush to 300m. Pewpew. That's the game now. Worst yet is how the only real counter to this thing... is another ECM! Even worse is how variants without the ECM to a Mech with an ECM variant are now completely pointless. But, hey, what do I know? Working as intended!

[Kaziganthi]

Bluten, on 15 December 2012 - 11:23 AM, said:

And they like their 300m pewpew game. When I think of these people, I think of people that can't learn to swim. So they needed baby floats to ensure they couldn't drown. Piranha has now given you your baby floats. Now you can just skip happily in a field or fish at the lake and those big mean nasty LRMs won't hurt you again. Just huddle near the ECM umbrella. Rush to 300m. Pewpew. That's the game now. Worst yet is how the only real counter to this thing... is another ECM! Even worse is how variants without the ECM to a Mech with an ECM variant are now completely pointless. But, hey, what do I know? Working as intended!

I said this would happen in Closed Beta and was shouted down by the masses (the 300m pewpew game), and that was even before the introduction of ECM.

[DrxAbstract]

MasterGoa, on 15 December 2012 - 09:08 AM, said:

However, missiles lock using heat. This is true in todays military
and has been true since 1952. Why would a future technology be totally castrated
and rendered useless by a radar jammer?

Good luck and godspeed, as i have been enjoying this game
for over 15 years...

ECM... Acronym for Electronic Counter Measure.

-Heat Seeking technology uses Infrared(Thermal) Detection Equipment. Infrared Light is a form of Electromagnetic Energy.

-Radar equipment uses Electromagnetic Energy(Microwaves) to function.

So you're saying it doesnt make sense a piece of equipment designed to broadcast Electromagnetic interference affects Radar and Thermal tracking equipment? That's assuming SSRMs and LRMs even use Thermal guidance systems; given that your HUD doesnt go bonkers in Thermal Vision mode around ECM mechs and the missiles lose tracking if you dont have some form of Radar-linked lock, i'd imagine they dont use Heat Seekers... especially since they're dangerous to nearby friendlies after they're launched.

[AlexWildeagle]

MasterGoa, on 15 December 2012 - 09:08 AM, said:

I have been a fan of Mech Warriro games since virtual world in Montreal
back in 1996. We played MWO in life size pods and it was awesome.

The people there LISTENED to what the players were saying and we
could hone our skill sets. The game was well balanced and fun for all.

Now, I have two mechs, two MadCats, one
long range and one short range.

Before we go into locking missiles, think of lag.
There is a lot of lag everywhere, and there is a KNOWN lag
bug when you turn. The only way to counter this is locking missiles.
At least, with a 140KPH mech.

However, locking does NOT work unless you or your teammates
use RADAR. So, if ECM wants to prevent radar to work, I am totally fine with this.

However, missiles lock using heat. This is true in todays military
and has been true since 1952. Why would a future technology be totally castrated
and rendered useless by a radar jammer?

It makes no sense at all that LOS locks are impossible because of a radar
jammer AND identifying your team mates...

Here is one of many results from an opposing team with two ECM:


Note damage inflicted...

So I will vote with my wallet. I will stop playing MWO because I should not be forced to bring a knife to a gun fight...

Also, the dev number ONE PRIORITY is to correct leg turning lag.
Going from 55FPS to 6 because I turn is not acceptable, and everyone
I know has the same issue with your game.

Good luck and godspeed, as i have been enjoying this game
for over 15 years...

Your mom will be very happy you're not running up her credit card anymore.

[DrBunji]

Alphascrub, on 15 December 2012 - 09:18 AM, said:

My sword must be very long, because just last game I shot a emc commado in the chest with dual gauss from around 500 meters and watched him do a faceplant slide into a lake. He liked it so much He told me I was op and should learn to play. I then laughed, and proceeded to target their emc raven. He took about 8 shots (kept missing cause of laughter)

This is how you deal with ECM-boaters like me, forum whiners take note.

[Ogresan]

No problem. ECM is fine as is. I know alot of people who will spend a bundle on this game so we'll be fine. Thanks though. =-D

[Pierce Rossignol]

I'll say it again. And again. And again.

ECM only highlights the lack of skill of players who apparently thought that left-clicking their way to victory made them good pilots. If you can't win without LRM spam, you don't play very well. Similarly, if you can't - or won't - communicate and coordinate with others on your team, you don't play very well. This is a team game. If you won't play the game the way it was designed to be played, then you have no right to complain.

ECM marks the first time that the Atlas is truly the most feared mech on the field. As an Atlas pilot, I can't wait for a netcode fix and the reinstatement of knockdowns so that we can get busy rightfully crumpling the cockpits of inferior pilots who count on lagshield and the suspension of all laws of physics to sustain them in a battle against an opponent three times their size packing ten times the ordnance.

As for ECM, it allows the Atlas to make it to the fight without half of the mech hanging off due to LRM spam. A fresh Atlas is scary. As it should be.

I've been piloting Atlases almost exclusively since the beginning, working on my patience and my piloting skills, waiting for the day when something like ECM -- and the eventual netcode fixes, and knockdowns, and collision damage -- make the Atlas once again, rightfully, the scariest thing on the field. There is no reason -- NONE -- that a Jenner or Commando should stay in the vicinity of an Atlas, nor should any but the craziest and most competent pilots be able to. An alpha strike from an Atlas at point blank range should blow a Commando off its feet and send it skidding away. A Jenner tangling with an Atlas should resemble a Pug fighting a Bullmastiff, and should last about as long. Your best bet against the Atlas, as a scout, should be to run like a rabbit and come back with friends and fire support. That day is coming. The days of "Forward-Back-Forward-Back-Really-Fast-So-He-Can't-Hit-Me-Even-Point-Blank" are ending. I'm grinding my teeth in anticipation. I will grin and smite you like the fist of an angry god.

Back to ECM.

The main reason ECM works so well is that teams with ECM tend to stay in a tight formation. A team of mechs is really hard to counter. That's the whole point of the game.

And on LRM's, I want to point out that ECM doesn't negate LRMs. I run a pair of 20's on my Founder's Atlas sometimes, and coordinate with a Light pilot to TAG or disrupt ECM mechs, at which point I hammer them with their own weight in warheads from several hundred yards before engaging. Which is how big mechs are supposed to work.

So I'm sorry that your cheats don't work anymore. ECM is fine. It makes the game hard. Cope.

[Torqueware]

MasterGoa, on 15 December 2012 - 09:08 AM, said:

LOOK AT YOUR IMAGE, PLEASE.

NOTE THE LACK OF ASSISTS ON YOUR TEAM, PLEASE.

Thank you.

(EDIT: Removed quote text to show just the image)

Edited by Torqueware, 15 December 2012 - 11:54 AM.

[King Arthur IV]

did you even spend a dollar before is was implemented?

[DrxAbstract]

Torqueware, on 15 December 2012 - 11:52 AM, said:

LOOK AT YOUR IMAGE, PLEASE.

NOTE THE LACK OF ASSISTS ON YOUR TEAM, PLEASE.

Thank you.

I'm going to play devil's advocate here and point out you didnt look over that image: Cant get assists if nobody on the other team dies... The only thing the image proves is OP lost. It's entirely possible for a team to focus-fire and teammates to assist eachother yet still walk away with nothing to show for it because the other guys did it better.

[MavRCK]

This Original Poster "OP" complains and highlights his lack of comprehension of the game and inability to play well as reasons for dismissing the game.

1) L2P - learn that a great counter to light mechs is to play a light mech
2) L2P - learn that waiting for missile locks in the OP's LRM and SSRM boats isn't going to work well versus a team with ECM
3) L2P - learn that there are other weapons than missiles in the game - try a machine gun... or gauss..
4) L2P - learn to learn to purchase another mech than a catapult?

So much complaining!

Man up, people! If PC games are too hard, go play solitaire ... or if that's too hard of an FPS game.. go play on a calculator.

Edited by MavRCK, 15 December 2012 - 12:00 PM.

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

Kaziganthi, on 15 December 2012 - 11:32 AM, said:

I said this would happen in Closed Beta and was shouted down by the masses (the 300m pewpew game), and that was even before the introduction of ECM.

I was also against the ECM in its previewed state. But no one cared. They just released it like that. And since the majority is happy, it'll probably stay like this. So we'll just have to get used to Brawler Online. I already got a 3L to abuse until they decide to fix this crap. It brawls better than anything else I've used due to how op this device is and how already powerful a fast Mech is.(Lots of netcode lagg, no knockdowns) Now you can't hit me with Streaks either unless you have an ECM yourself to couter mine. I'm going to save up for an D DC next. It'll be less dominating, but another OP variant thanks to this broken patch. You know, it's not really a good sign when 1 device does everything and is also the best counter to itself, while others do nothing at all. It's also not a good sign when classes are then rendered pointless because they can't use said device.(Ie Raven 2X and 4X)

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

MavRCK, on 15 December 2012 - 11:56 AM, said:

Man up, people! If PC games are too hard, go play solitaire ... or if that's too hard of an FPS game.. go play on a calculator.

This is what people should have done before. But they couldn't wise up, or man up, or go play a FPS, so they cried and cried to Piranha for a magic umbrella(AMS wasn't good enough), and now they got it. Realize all this before telling us, the people that did fine before, that we're the bad ones. We didn't need this ECM. You all did. I had missiles shot at me everyday but it wasn't a problem for me. I wasn't begging Piranha for a lock immunity. I just used terrain or slotted an AMS. But you don't have to do any of that anymore. Just go sit next to the ECM umbrella. It's like baby floats. Can't learn to swim? No need. Put on the floats. Problem solved. Just zerg to 300m now and pewpew without a care. That's what everyone wanted. That's what they got. No one but us few minority actually wanted differing roles and tactics in the game. So that's gone now. Just zerg to 300m and pewpew. It's Brawler Online now.

Edited by Bluten, 15 December 2012 - 12:11 PM.

[Kaziganthi]

Pierce Rossignol, on 15 December 2012 - 11:43 AM, said:

I'll say it again. And again. And again.

ECM only highlights the lack of skill of players who apparently thought that left-clicking their way to victory made them good pilots. If you can't win without LRM spam, you don't play very well. Similarly, if you can't - or won't - communicate and coordinate with others on your team, you don't play very well. This is a team game. If you won't play the game the way it was designed to be played, then you have no right to complain.

ECM marks the first time that the Atlas is truly the most feared mech on the field. As an Atlas pilot, I can't wait for a netcode fix and the reinstatement of knockdowns so that we can get busy rightfully crumpling the cockpits of inferior pilots who count on lagshield and the suspension of all laws of physics to sustain them in a battle against an opponent three times their size packing ten times the ordnance.

As for ECM, it allows the Atlas to make it to the fight without half of the mech hanging off due to LRM spam. A fresh Atlas is scary. As it should be.

I've been piloting Atlases almost exclusively since the beginning, working on my patience and my piloting skills, waiting for the day when something like ECM -- and the eventual netcode fixes, and knockdowns, and collision damage -- make the Atlas once again, rightfully, the scariest thing on the field. There is no reason -- NONE -- that a Jenner or Commando should stay in the vicinity of an Atlas, nor should any but the craziest and most competent pilots be able to. An alpha strike from an Atlas at point blank range should blow a Commando off its feet and send it skidding away. A Jenner tangling with an Atlas should resemble a Pug fighting a Bullmastiff, and should last about as long. Your best bet against the Atlas, as a scout, should be to run like a rabbit and come back with friends and fire support. That day is coming. The days of "Forward-Back-Forward-Back-Really-Fast-So-He-Can't-Hit-Me-Even-Point-Blank" are ending. I'm grinding my teeth in anticipation. I will grin and smite you like the fist of an angry god.

Back to ECM.

The main reason ECM works so well is that teams with ECM tend to stay in a tight formation. A team of mechs is really hard to counter. That's the whole point of the game.

And on LRM's, I want to point out that ECM doesn't negate LRMs. I run a pair of 20's on my Founder's Atlas sometimes, and coordinate with a Light pilot to TAG or disrupt ECM mechs, at which point I hammer them with their own weight in warheads from several hundred yards before engaging. Which is how big mechs are supposed to work.

So I'm sorry that your cheats don't work anymore. ECM is fine. It makes the game hard. Cope.

So the Atlas needed ECM to make it feared..get real. The Atlas not being feared was not due to the lack of ECM, it was due to the lack of all its massive armament dealing such pitiful damage against mechs that barely registered a hit from it. Firing pointblank at a jenner with 2 large lasers and a guass and getting sollid hits from all 3 on its CT should do more than just turn its icon yellow. It should have cored the ******.

Prior to ECM introduction and after the lrm damage buff to 1.8, I vary rarely saw LRM slugfests. There were perhaps 2 LTM designated "Boats" per side. You all foreget that when it went open beta, 3 of the 4 trial mechs had LRMs, thats why there were a lot. Now those players have either left or moved into Laserboats / ECMstreak boats or D-DC.

Oh and I've played LRM cats almost exclusively and moved onto an LRM Atlas, and you know what. LRMs are a waste of tonnage when no other weapon system requires the need of a 3rd party to spot and HOLD target LOS for you at a range outside 750m.

I've also taken out 2 Atlas's circle straffing with an ECM commando, thats how scary you guys are even with ECM. I just counter and fire my Streaks away, and pretty soon your a pile of scrap on the field foe salvage.

Lasers and ballistics can fire on a heat signature, LRM's cant.

Edited by Kaziganthi, 15 December 2012 - 12:22 PM.

[ROFLwaffle49]

MasterGoa, on 15 December 2012 - 09:08 AM, said:

I have been a fan of Mech Warriro games since virtual world in Montreal
back in 1996. We played MWO in life size pods and it was awesome.

The people there LISTENED to what the players were saying and we
could hone our skill sets. The game was well balanced and fun for all.

Now, I have two mechs, two MadCats, one
long range and one short range.

Before we go into locking missiles, think of lag.
There is a lot of lag everywhere, and there is a KNOWN lag
bug when you turn. The only way to counter this is locking missiles.
At least, with a 140KPH mech.

However, locking does NOT work unless you or your teammates
use RADAR. So, if ECM wants to prevent radar to work, I am totally fine with this.

However, missiles lock using heat. This is true in todays military
and has been true since 1952. Why would a future technology be totally castrated
and rendered useless by a radar jammer?

It makes no sense at all that LOS locks are impossible because of a radar
jammer AND identifying your team mates...

Here is one of many results from an opposing team with two ECM:


Note damage inflicted...

So I will vote with my wallet. I will stop playing MWO because I should not be forced to bring a knife to a gun fight...

Also, the dev number ONE PRIORITY is to correct leg turning lag.
Going from 55FPS to 6 because I turn is not acceptable, and everyone
I know has the same issue with your game.

Good luck and godspeed, as i have been enjoying this game
for over 15 years...

So you got rolled? Dude that happened long before the ecm. Just because you get a little rage-y at the end of a bad game isn't a reason to stop playing... Man up.

[Deadoon]

I think most of the problems with the ecm is related to the maps we have we need some bigger maps that have less extreme terrain and unusual cave formation(seriously, how does that ice cave even form natually, that perfectly?) Maybe a chain of canyons that can be deathtraps for teams if they aren't able to manuever properly due to wide open areas outside them. Caustic is probably the most logical map in this game currently, but due to it's heat it isn't a very simple play.

[Kaziganthi]

Bluten, on 15 December 2012 - 12:06 PM, said:

I was also against the ECM in its previewed state. But no one cared. They just released it like that. And since the majority is happy, it'll probably stay like this. So we'll just have to get used to Brawler Online. I already got a 3L to abuse until they decide to fix this crap. It brawls better than anything else I've used due to how op this device is and how already powerful a fast Mech is.(Lots of netcode lagg, no knockdowns) Now you can't hit me with Streaks either unless you have an ECM yourself to couter mine. I'm going to save up for an D DC next. It'll be less dominating, but another OP variant thanks to this broken patch. You know, it's not really a good sign when 1 device does everything and is also the best counter to itself, while others do nothing at all. It's also not a good sign when classes are then rendered pointless because they can't use said device.(Ie Raven 2X and 4X)

And as quoted IN PC Gamer its not going to change.

“The effect [of ECM] is working as intended and forces players to play a lot smarter,” he said. “Specialized Mechs still have their place on the battlefield but they are going to need the assistance of their teammates to succeed. If you plan on taking specialized Mech into a match, plan wisely and have alternate weapon systems that will help you with mid to long-range combat. People are thinking we need to severely ‘nerf’ the ECM. This is not the case at all. There is already 1 counter-ECM item in the game (TAG), and likely there will be a couple more involving modules and weapon effects"

http://www.pcgamer.c...t-mode-release/

So congrats all you ECM winners, you got what you wanted..

ECMOnline.