142 replies to this topic

[Stygian Steel]

apparently MWO is cutting into Op's time that could be spent moaning on forums about a game instead of playing

[Phatel]

KingCobra, on 15 December 2012 - 09:30 AM, said:

I just voted with my wallet and my time which=0 USD and 0= time. Like the OP I have been with the MechWarrior IP since 1995 and before that to 1990 with MechWarrior 1 and BT board games. The game right now is not worth the effort of playing it ............I'm a missile commander and without a lock I cant find enjoyment in watching my enemy's surprise as missiles rain down and make his life hellll .

I missle boat and use my team to support my playstyle of pushing 1 button to dominate. ECM ruined my fun but made the game viable for the others, please fix as now more people are having the fun I used to have while I'm only having as much fun as they used to have when missle boats ran the game and I find this unfair.

[Randodan]

In today's military only light A-A missiles use heat. And even they can be dodged with flares. Most other A-A missiles use radar, which can be jammed by ECM. ECM of course can be burnt through with ECCM.

I would like to see the SSRMs be based on heat for target acquisition, rather than radar though. That would be a nice touch.

[Zero Neutral]

MasterGoa, on 15 December 2012 - 09:08 AM, said:

I have been a fan of Mech Warriro games since virtual world in Montreal
back in 1996. We played MWO in life size pods and it was awesome.

The people there LISTENED to what the players were saying and we
could hone our skill sets. The game was well balanced and fun for all.

Now, I have two mechs, two MadCats, one
long range and one short range.

Before we go into locking missiles, think of lag.
There is a lot of lag everywhere, and there is a KNOWN lag
bug when you turn. The only way to counter this is locking missiles.
At least, with a 140KPH mech.

However, locking does NOT work unless you or your teammates
use RADAR. So, if ECM wants to prevent radar to work, I am totally fine with this.

However, missiles lock using heat. This is true in todays military
and has been true since 1952. Why would a future technology be totally castrated
and rendered useless by a radar jammer?

It makes no sense at all that LOS locks are impossible because of a radar
jammer AND identifying your team mates...

Here is one of many results from an opposing team with two ECM:

[pic]

Note damage inflicted...

So I will vote with my wallet. I will stop playing MWO because I should not be forced to bring a knife to a gun fight...

Also, the dev number ONE PRIORITY is to correct leg turning lag.
Going from 55FPS to 6 because I turn is not acceptable, and everyone
I know has the same issue with your game.

Good luck and godspeed, as i have been enjoying this game
for over 15 years...

I spent money on this game yesterday now I have 23,600 MC :-D

ECM is really cool and I can't wait for the ADDITIONAL systems that are added for warfare.

Edited by Zero Neutral, 15 December 2012 - 12:30 PM.

[SpiralRazor]

DrBunji, on 15 December 2012 - 11:36 AM, said:

This is how you deal with ECM-boaters like me, forum whiners take note.

Ecm-boater...

You sir, are mentally handicapped.

[Phatel]

Bluten, on 15 December 2012 - 11:23 AM, said:

And they like their 300m pewpew game. When I think of these people, I think of people that can't learn to swim. So they needed baby floats to ensure they couldn't drown. Piranha has now given you your baby floats. Now you can just skip happily in a field or fish at the lake and those big mean nasty LRMs won't hurt you again. Just huddle near the ECM umbrella. Rush to 300m. Pewpew. That's the game now. Worst yet is how the only real counter to this thing... is another ECM! Even worse is how variants without the ECM to a Mech with an ECM variant are now completely pointless. But, hey, what do I know? Working as intended!

Or Tag and you know Artemis and BAP...I run Atlas with Tag/Bap/Artemis and can 2 shot mechs once I get within 450m so tag works. yes LRM are fine, please buff them again so I can stand at 1k meters and obliterate things all the way until they hit 180m. Those days were MUCH better.

Nothing says ECM is op like a Missle boat still boasting 1200+ damage and 6 kills. Clearly ECM is game changing, I'm just not sure how..

Edited by Phatel, 15 December 2012 - 12:32 PM.

[Pierce Rossignol]

Kaziganthi, on 15 December 2012 - 12:16 PM, said:

So the Atlas needed ECM to make it feared..get real. The Atlas not being feared was not due to the lack of ECM, it was due to the lack of all its massive armament dealing such pitiful damage against mechs that barely registered a hit from it. Firing pointblank at a jenner with 2 large lasers and a guass and getting sollid hits from all 3 on its CT should do more than just turn its icon yellow. It should have cored the ******.

Prior to ECM introduction and after the lrm damage buff to 1.8, I vary rarely saw LRM slugfests. There were perhaps 2 LTM designated "Boats" per side. You all foreget that when it went open beta, 3 of the 4 trial mechs had LRMs, thats why there were a lot. Now those players have either left or moved into Laserboats / ECMstreak boats or D-DC.

Oh and I've played LRM cats almost exclusively and moved onto an LRM Atlas, and you know what. LRMs are a waste of tonnage when no other weapon system requires the need of a 3rd party to spot and HOLD target LOS for you at a range outside 750m.

I've also taken out 2 Atlas's circle straffing with an ECM commando, thats how scary you guys are even with ECM. I just counter and fire my Streaks away, and pretty soon your a pile of scrap on the field foe salvage.

Lasers and ballistics can fire on a heat signature, LRM's cant.

I'm saying that ECM finally gave the Atlas some cred. It's not a complete fix; not even close. But when lagshields and no-knockdown are gone (someday, please, God), the big guys are going to rule the field and rightfully so. Your days of circle-strafing an Atlas will be over. Unless you're very good or very nuts. You will die. (I keep envisioning The Hulk throwing Loki around.)

As an Atlas pilot, I saw nonstop LRM contests for weeks straight for awhile, there. Using cover and concealment, avenues of approach, hugging rocks, and sprinting with a 350 or 360 engine across open spaces, I could get into the fight but as soon as I propagated on someone's radar -- i.e., engaged anybody -- I would just get melted by hundreds of LRM's.

ECM levels the field a bit. Is it a perfect solution? No. But it makes the game harder for our opponents, and that is awesome. For those of us in the lumbering towers of death who've been playing on "Hard" mode all this time (I'd even call being an Atlas pilot for the last six months the "Why, God, Why?" Mode), it just got a little easier.

[Torqueware]

DrBunji, on 15 December 2012 - 11:36 AM, said:

This is how you deal with ECM-boaters like me, forum whiners take note.

Wisdom.

[SpiralRazor]

Phatel, on 15 December 2012 - 12:31 PM, said:

Or Tag and you know Artemis and BAP...I run Atlas with Tag/Bap/Artemis and can 2 shot mechs once I get within 450m so tag works. yes LRM are fine, please buff them again so I can stand at 1k meters and obliterate things all the way until they hit 180m. Those days were MUCH better.

Nothing says ECM is op like a Missle boat still boasting 1200+ damage and 6 kills. Clearly ECM is game changing, I'm just not sure how..

Those days existed for umm..what...a few days? What other days are you talking about sir? Oh, thats right, the months and months where missiles did hardly anything.

Baddy. Uninstall.

[Deadoon]

SpiralRazor, on 15 December 2012 - 12:33 PM, said:

Those days existed for umm..what...a few days? What other days are you talking about sir? Oh, thats right, the months and months where missiles did hardly anything.

Baddy. Uninstall.

I think you need to re read what he posted...

[jakucha]

Joseph Mallan, on 15 December 2012 - 09:14 AM, said:

AC20 Knife due to short range
LL a Dagger cause well daggers are longer than knifes
Gauss/PPC/ERPPC swords!

LBX is more of a knife.

Edited by jakucha, 15 December 2012 - 12:43 PM.

[Deadoon]

jakucha, on 15 December 2012 - 12:43 PM, said:

LBX is more of a knife.

Closer to a fork.

[Pierce Rossignol]

Kaziganthi, on 15 December 2012 - 12:16 PM, said:

you know what. LRMs are a waste of tonnage when no other weapon system requires the need of a 3rd party to spot and HOLD target LOS for you at a range outside 750m.

LRM boats are supposed to be highly-specialized units that work in concert with other mechs. That necessity of team play and mutual assistance is what keeps fire support mechs in balance; they take one or two mechs out of the brawl. Ideally they take a whole lance, if you're doing it right -- there should be a missile lance, with two of you lobbing artillery downrange standing at least 180m away from each other to watch each other's backs, and two spotters forward-deployed. And BTW, if you work that out and practice a bit you will own the battlespace, ECM or no. Most guys aren't willing to lose enough times in a row to work it out, though.

If you can rain LRM's on your opponent unaided, you're way OP. In fact, you're pretty much exploiting. Unless your opponent is an i d i o t and is standing in the open. . . which happens . . . .

Edited because seriously, you can't say i d i o t? Who is it going to offend? Only i d i o t s. I don't see a problem, here.

Edited by Pierce Rossignol, 15 December 2012 - 12:53 PM.

[F1restarter]

MasterGoa, on 15 December 2012 - 09:08 AM, said:

I have been a fan of Mech Warriro games since virtual world in Montreal
back in 1996. We played MWO in life size pods and it was awesome.

The people there LISTENED to what the players were saying and we
could hone our skill sets. The game was well balanced and fun for all.

Now, I have two mechs, two MadCats, one
long range and one short range.

Before we go into locking missiles, think of lag.
There is a lot of lag everywhere, and there is a KNOWN lag
bug when you turn. The only way to counter this is locking missiles.
At least, with a 140KPH mech.

However, locking does NOT work unless you or your teammates
use RADAR. So, if ECM wants to prevent radar to work, I am totally fine with this.

However, missiles lock using heat. This is true in todays military
and has been true since 1952. Why would a future technology be totally castrated
and rendered useless by a radar jammer?

It makes no sense at all that LOS locks are impossible because of a radar
jammer AND identifying your team mates...

Here is one of many results from an opposing team with two ECM:


Note damage inflicted...

So I will vote with my wallet. I will stop playing MWO because I should not be forced to bring a knife to a gun fight...

Also, the dev number ONE PRIORITY is to correct leg turning lag.
Going from 55FPS to 6 because I turn is not acceptable, and everyone
I know has the same issue with your game.

Good luck and godspeed, as i have been enjoying this game
for over 15 years...

Mech Warriro? Is that the new version of Mario Kart? Because he'd be kick a$$ in it.

Um... You have MadCats? Or Timberwolves as it were? I'd love me some clan tech if you're giving it away, but seeing as how we're actually in 3049 in MW:O and there has yet to be any introduction of clan tech as of yet, I don't see this.

Heat guided missiles only? Let's see... AIM-7 Sparrow, the most common air to air missile in the US inventory currently is a RADAR guided missile... And beyond that, the AMRAAM is strictly a RADAR guided missile. Heat (IR) guided missiles are a rather crude choice and not the best in any case.

Anyhow, figure out direct fire weapons and you won't be disappointed. Enjoy.

[Desirsar]

Daiichidoku, on 15 December 2012 - 09:20 AM, said:

this is a free game..your vote counts as much as they do in florida

Free? With what magical money does the publisher use to pay to maintain the servers, then?

Liberty, on 15 December 2012 - 09:27 AM, said:

Threats are not constructive and technically you haven't left the game because it is Beta.

If he leaves, technically, he's left. Technically, it's not a beta, because they have begun taking money for a service. If they want to misuse the term beta to imply that they may make sweeping changes to the game mechanics at any time, fine. I would point out to them that the EULA for almost every online game says that in it anyway, whether or not they're considered beta, and I'm not sure why they think they need to coddle their particular demographic about game balance changes. Again, they can call it beta, but that doesn't make it correct use of the term. I'm a millionaire, you know... I have a million millionths of a penny sitting next to my keyboard!

Asakara, on 15 December 2012 - 09:50 AM, said:

I have been playing Battletech since I was able to make enough money doing private landscaping in 1984 to get the original boxed set. I have been enjoying and financially supporting this franchise for 28 years.

PGI, please check my account. You will see I have spent $120 on my founders package and also an additional $250 since OB started on MC. That is $370 so far. I would like to continue to give you a portion of my disposable income each month, but I also enjoy ECM.

If you do like getting around $100 per month from me, and like having me as a customer then please ignore OPs post and leave ECM in the game. If you do so I will continue spending with you. If you follow OPs post, and remove ECM, then I will need to re-evaluate our financial arrangement, which could mean spending my disposable income elsewhere in the future.

The choice is yours.

Thinking in gaming terms, voting with your wallet for obvious unbalanced game elements won't work. Any decent developer is going to take the money from the side threatening to leave over broken mechanics, because most of those threatening to leave if their overpowered mechanic is changed will keep playing and paying anyway. (I imagine because they'll just move on to the next broken mechanic.)

Thinking in terms of a brick and mortar business, almost any business anywhere would rather take customers spending a fraction of what a single customer spends if that single customer is obnoxious to the other customers while patronizing the business. I propose an experiment - ask your local bowling alley if you can pay him the same amount of money he makes for games every day for a week in exchange for free reign running around the place yelling at the bowlers. Then try offering ten times that amount, and watch him still turn you down. The only business online or offline that will take short term cash on those terms is one that knows it's closing soon anyway.

Elkarlo, on 15 December 2012 - 10:20 AM, said:

Edit.:
Everbody who dislikes ECM should go out with this Setup and earn Money this weekend that we have as much ECM mechs out there as possible,

You got your C-Bills and PGI will learn a lesson how they made Premium and paying for MC totally Useless... as everybody W/O Premium can afford the biggest Mech in just 6 Hours playing by using the Cheap to get and repair Commando-2D this think is a ridicullus Money cow. You can hit every Mech, so you get Kill assist Money, you spot a lot of Mechs, so you get this Money Bonus, you do lot of Damage, so you get lot of C-bill bonus there, and the more ECM the team got the more likely it wins. -> Best Money Cow for 2,5M in MWO, thanks to ECM.
And it is ridicullus Cheap to repair.
Normaly around 12k 2 Tons SSRM Ammo are enough at 75% Welfare Ammo.

So i want that ECM stays because then i will never be in the need to pay anything for MWO.

Elkarlo, on 15 December 2012 - 10:41 AM, said:

No leave the ECM as it is.

I want to play MWO for free with big Mechs.
I can Moneymilk the C-Bill with my Com-2D because ECM is so strong.
I dont need Premium thanks to ECM, so please leave it alone. And all should follow the Com-2D Money train.

The fact that anyone can say these things, even in jest, is a testament to a desperately needed change to ECM.

[Vanguard319]

MasterGoa, on 15 December 2012 - 09:08 AM, said:

I will stop playing MWO because I should not be forced to bring a knife to a gun fight...

Bad Allegory. First, there is no melee in MWO, therefore, there is no proverbial knife. Second, ECM does nothing to counter ACs, lasers, or other direct fire weapons. Third, the Teuller Drill proves as long as the range is under 21 feet, the knife is a liable threat to the gunman.

[Kaziganthi]

Pierce Rossignol, on 15 December 2012 - 12:51 PM, said:

LRM boats are supposed to be highly-specialized units that work in concert with other mechs. That necessity of team play and mutual assistance is what keeps fire support mechs in balance; they take one or two mechs out of the brawl. Ideally they take a whole lance, if you're doing it right -- there should be a missile lance, with two of you lobbing artillery downrange standing at least 180m away from each other to watch each other's backs, and two spotters forward-deployed. And BTW, if you work that out and practice a bit you will own the battlespace, ECM or no. Most guys aren't willing to lose enough times in a row to work it out, though.

If you can rain LRM's on your opponent unaided, you're way OP. In fact, you're pretty much exploiting. Unless your opponent is an i d i o t and is standing in the open. . . which happens . . . .

Edited because seriously, you can't say i d i o t? Who is it going to offend? Only i d i o t s. I don't see a problem, here.

True, but as you stated only an i d i o t would stand in the open with an LRM battery on a ridgeline.

We'll I hate to rain on your parade, but ECM lights now do run straight out into the open, because you cannot get a valid lock on them, unaided, until they are 300m away. By then it's too late. So LRMs are no longer Long Range they are short to medium range, but hangon they also have a minimum range for damage of 180m, which makes the medium range missiles.

LRMs have way to many counters now...

They supposedly can go 1000m, yet can only do that if a 3rd party holds LOS for their entire flight time
"Incoming Missiles" Message warns target of a strike so they can then move to blocking terrain
Blocking terrain....enough said
AMS - shoots down incoming missiles
and now ECM reducing lock times and distances down to a close in weapon.

Oh and BTW, try working out that practice of keeping your LRM support at a distance and watch them get swarmed by ecm equipped lights that you can barely hit with your close in weaponry due to lagshield.

If you can pump 9 mediums lasers from a hunchback into a mech and kill it with 1 or 2 volleys your just as overpowered, same for the streakcats. To be quite honest, never had problems with streakcats until you got in close, then it was over.

The problem is not many people want to play the 3 ranges of combat. Long, medium and short. They want the brawl cause its more fun watching you blow up the mech in front of you. No need to think to about tyactics, just rush in and kill.

Edit: Battletech is like chess. do you nerf the knight because it can jump over pieces, or do you hobble it and make it lose that ability because you don't like it.

Edited by Kaziganthi, 15 December 2012 - 03:03 PM.

[Kaziganthi]

Vanguard319, on 15 December 2012 - 02:44 PM, said:

Second, ECM does nothing to counter ACs, lasers, or other direct fire weapons.

Correct, but it hampers the only effective counter to the lagshield.

Also if you turn ECM to counter, it should disrupt all ECM, not just 1 for 1. All the other equiped ECM pilot does is call for a 2nd ECM equipped mech to come help and the counter gets overridden. So it becomes he who has the most ECM wins.

Edited by Kaziganthi, 15 December 2012 - 03:09 PM.

[Green Mamba]

Wow ...From the scores I would think you guys Took A Dive in that game they are so bad,thats not ECM in play there

[Kaijin]

Asapiophobe Vortex, on 15 December 2012 - 10:28 AM, said:

TBH the game is much more enjoyable now that ECM is here. Before ECM was introduced there was just waaay to much LRM spam at the beginning of each round that was plain ******* annoying, add steakcats to that equation and you will know why I like ECM just the way it is.

And no, I do not play a mech that has ECM, and neither have I used LRM before, because I just found it to be a boring weapon.

I vote for ECM to stay as it is. Deal with it.

This one post has confirmed my worst fear. This is the future of MWO. Challenges are annoying. Diversity is boring. Same brawler builds everywhere, with some ECM mechs thrown in.

No thanks.