137 replies to this topic

[JAFO]

What are PUGS in MWO?

PUG = Pick Up Group

PUGS = Pick Up Group Solo. PUGS (Plural) defining the multiple players in MWO that play solo and are not part of an organized team or are completely new to Mechwarrior.

There are a lot of PUGS in MWO right now because this game is still new and I, like many others, have developed a degree to hostility towards these players because of constant complains to the developers that the game is not fair to them and their inability to understand how to play Mechwarrior.

Please understand, MWO is not a 1^st person shooter where you run around get killed and then respawn. It is not and never should be played in 3^rd person because that completely removes the concept of being a Mechwarrior which is why this game is called Mechwarrior Online. This is a TEAM game that involves strategy and structure.

The roots of Mechwarrior and how it fits into the Battletech universe are deep, and for a lot of us dedicated players, it goes far beyond a simple video game and into a community that we value, respect and appreciate. For some, Battletech has been in our lives for 20 to 30 years and our teams are loyal to the Majors IS houses, Periphery Units or Clans that we represent.



The bottom line for me is this, and I pose this to the entire community to debate, because we as a community need to understand the problem in order to correct it.

I want PUGS to be a part of this community and I want PUGS to understand what Mechwarrior is in the Battletech Universe and I am willing to teach new pilots how to play this game. With that being said, I challenge All PUGS to do this.

Reach out to the unit leaders in all of the Major IS houses, Periphery groups, or Clans and join one. Be a part of this community and understand what it is about before you make a complaint that you don’t think the game is fair for whatever reason. The truth is, you may not understand what your complaining about or how it actually works in Mechwarrior, but we will help you and teach you.

Understand how this game is to be played and let the dedicated player base teach you because not only you will enjoy yourselves and understand what this is all about. You will join us in one of the largest communities in gaming that has existed far longer than many of you realize.

[Satan n stuff]

That's the way to do it, now if those pugs would start reading the forums so they will see this post, that would be even better.

[Mack1]

JAFO, on 16 December 2012 - 11:25 AM, said:

What are PUGS in MWO?

PUG = Pick Up Group

PUGS = Pick Up Group Solo. PUGS (Plural) defining the multiple players in MWO that play solo and are not part of an organized team or are completely new to Mechwarrior.

There are a lot of PUGS in MWO right now because this game is still new and I, like many others, have developed a degree to hostility towards these players because of constant complains to the developers that the game is not fair to them and their inability to understand how to play Mechwarrior.

Please understand, MWO is not a 1^st person shooter where you run around get killed and then respawn. It is not and never should be played in 3^rd person because that completely removes the concept of being a Mechwarrior which is why this game is called Mechwarrior Online. This is a TEAM game that involves strategy and structure.

The roots of Mechwarrior and how it fits into the Battletech universe are deep, and for a lot of us dedicated players, it goes far beyond a simple video game and into a community that we value, respect and appreciate. For some, Battletech has been in our lives for 20 to 30 years and our teams are loyal to the Majors IS houses, Periphery Units or Clans that we represent.



The bottom line for me is this, and I pose this to the entire community to debate, because we as a community need to understand the problem in order to correct it.

I want PUGS to be a part of this community and I want PUGS to understand what Mechwarrior is in the Battletech Universe and I am willing to teach new pilots how to play this game. With that being said, I challenge All PUGS to do this.

Reach out to the unit leaders in all of the Major IS houses, Periphery groups, or Clans and join one. Be a part of this community and understand what it is about before you make a complaint that you don’t think the game is fair for whatever reason. The truth is, you may not understand what your complaining about or how it actually works in Mechwarrior, but we will help you and teach you.

Understand how this game is to be played and let the dedicated player base teach you because not only you will enjoy yourselves and understand what this is all about. You will join us in one of the largest communities in gaming that has existed far longer than many of you realize.

Hate to burst your bubble but whatever you think MWO is all about is wrong unless you think of it as a business because that is exactly what it is. However if this game was a box on a shelf and no online shop I would agree with you. But it's not and the devs want to get as many people in this game having fun as they possibly can as happy people having fun spend money.

They will not alienate the vast majority of people by making a game that only appeals to people who are in some kind of MWO Clan, they simply won't do that as they know they will lose money hand over fist. This game like all online shop games will appeal to the masses first and foremost and the masses are solo pug players or two or three friend players.

[Wraith05]

Mack1, on 16 December 2012 - 12:43 PM, said:

Hate to burst your bubble but whatever you think MWO is all about is wrong unless you think of it as a business because that is exactly what it is. However if this game was a box on a shelf and no online shop I would agree with you. But it's not and the devs want to get as many people in this game having fun as they possibly can as happy people having fun spend money.

They will not alienate the vast majority of people by making a game that only appeals to people who are in some kind of MWO Clan, they simply won't do that as they know they will lose money hand over fist. This game like all online shop games will appeal to the masses first and foremost and the masses are solo pug players or two or three friend players.

I agree with you in that people should not be forced to join clans or houses to play this game.

BUT I do feel that they should be willing to play as a team in the team based gamemodes (when we get multiple ones in).
And that they should start trying to view the game from an 8 man unit perspective for balance instead of a 1v1 perspective.

And those with more experienced should be willing to teach, and explain nicely (at times I haven't) to the new ones how the game works. Why certain builds are in fact not OP. And how playing certain roles can enhance your gameplay and that of your team.

But you can try to teach in a nice way till the world ends (in 5 days) and it won't matter if people are unwilling to listen and only thinking about how to change the game to their personal advantage.

[Egomane]

I have to agree with Mack1 here.

As much as I like playing with my friends, the core concept of this game is, to make it available to as many players possible. This means that the way it's meant to be played is:
Step 01 - Login
Step 02 - Maybe group up
Step 03 - Drop into a match
Step 04 - Repeat steps 01 to 03 as many times you like
Step 05 - Logout

If you like it or not: The vast majority of players doesn't like to join up with groups. They don't like to be regulated in any form, how ever mild it may be. They don't want or need structure, they just want to have fun. They want to play the game the way they want. They are not second class players because of that and they sure don't need any one to hold their hand.

Edit:
And from what I have seen, it is mostly not the PUGs complaining about OP builds or weapons of the week.

Edited by Egomane, 16 December 2012 - 12:56 PM.

[Wraith05]

Egomane, on 16 December 2012 - 12:54 PM, said:

I have to agree with Mack1 here.

As much as I like playing with my friends, the core concept of this game is, to make it available to as many players possible. This means that the way it's meant to be played is:
Step 01 - Login
Step 02 - Maybe group up
Step 03 - Drop into a match
Step 04 - Repeat steps 01 to 03 as many times you like
Step 05 - Logout

If you like it or not: The vast majority of players doesn't like to join up with groups. They don't like to be regulated in any form, how ever mild it may be. They don't want or need structure, they just want to have fun. They want to play the game the way they want. They are not second class players because of that and they sure don't need any one to hold their hand.

Edit:
And from what I have seen, it is mostly not the PUGs complaining about OP builds or weapons of the week.

I've been seeing mostly the pugs complaining about such things. But that's not the point here.

I think more game modes, in particular a FFA would help out a lot more. That way if you join the team based modes you know you're expected to work as a team.

Do the steps, go for it. But realize that team capture or team deathmatch is based on 8 people working together. not 8 rambos. And with that realisation base your "change X factor" on the idea of 8v8, not 1x8 vs 8

[Nightcrept]

Please Stop.

This is a MMO. It does not matter how it started or who thinks what where. The basic business model of MMO's is extremely well understood.

And part of having a healthy MMO is understanding that pr-mades, clans, groups etc do not keep your game healthy.

The fact is (and I am sorry if it bothers you) that the casual player who log in for a few games here and there and do not want to be in a group or talk on ts are the vast majority of player bases.

A game must be attractive to them first and foremost.

Then after time goes by some of those players may trickle up to the more competitive core group.



But for the vast majority of us we just want to log on and play alone. We don't mind playing on teams but only loosely and in a non-formal I can choose to do what I want type of way.

[Omni Tek]

You are aware that a very large precentage of pugs don't even come to the forums (myself not included) and as such your poste is missing allot of your target audience my a mile.

[Nightcrept]

Wraith05, on 16 December 2012 - 01:02 PM, said:

I've been seeing mostly the pugs complaining about such things. But that's not the point here.

I think more game modes, in particular a FFA would help out a lot more. That way if you join the team based modes you know you're expected to work as a team.

Do the steps, go for it. But realize that team capture or team deathmatch is based on 8 people working together. not 8 rambos. And with that realisation base your "change X factor" on the idea of 8v8, not 1x8 vs 8

I disagree.Even if you want to be part of a team you cannot control who you drop with in pug matches. So you cannot set up with dedicated tag or ecm mechs. Therefore you have to abandon the weapons trees etc that need support. That is why we scream about op ecm and stuff. Because you cannot control who you drop with or how they play in a pug and that renders some builds combat ineffective. And balance as indicated above needs to be on pug matches and not pre-mades to create and maintain a healthy player base and through that game.

Omni Tek, on 16 December 2012 - 01:05 PM, said:

You are aware that a very large precentage of pugs don't even come to the forums (myself not included) and as such your poste is missing allot of your target audience my a mile.

True. Generally the ones of us who do used to be part of clans, mods, testers etc in other games and only come here because know we must to stand up for those who don't.

[Wraith05]

Nightcrept, on 16 December 2012 - 01:09 PM, said:

I disagree.Even if you want to be part of a team you cannot control who you drop with in pug matches. So you cannot set up with dedicated tag or ecm mechs. Therefore you have to abandon the weapons trees etc that need support. That is why we scream about op ecm and stuff. Because you cannot control who you drop with or how they play in a pug and that renders some builds combat ineffective. And balance as indicated above needs to be on pug matches and not pre-mades to create and maintain a healthy player base and through that game.

True. Generally the ones of us who do used to be part of clans, mods, testers etc in other games and only come here because know we must to stand up for those who don't.

Perhaps but to me this is why we haven't had any really good games lately, and the ones that may have been have been reduced. The simplifying the team games to appease the lone wolfs have made the games too linear and bland.

A teamgame that has roles supporting each other would mean you can do things like missle support, striking, scoutting, brawling, hit and run tactics. Flanking. And would support many more loadouts and custimization.

While supporting a lone wolf/rambo style of play would eventually widdle these roles down to hit and run tactics, and bralwing. And also limit the customization and diversity you'd see on the game. Which to me would eventually make this game average at best and just another FPS game.

And what I am trying to get across also isn't "JOIN A PREMADE TODAY!" mindset. But more of a keep an open mind when entering a match. Communicate with your team and work with the builds you have together. You'll be able to play a scout then, or a LRM boat or tag/ecm. And you'll see a more diverse setup because you know that even if you have 7 random people chances are 1 will have a build that can support you.

If people keep the lone wolf mindset you'll just keep getting lonewolf builds and also lonewolf implimentations.

[Darth JarJar]

Mack1, on 16 December 2012 - 12:43 PM, said:

Hate to burst your bubble but whatever you think MWO is all about is wrong unless you think of it as a business because that is exactly what it is. However if this game was a box on a shelf and no online shop I would agree with you. But it's not and the devs want to get as many people in this game having fun as they possibly can as happy people having fun spend money.

They will not alienate the vast majority of people by making a game that only appeals to people who are in some kind of MWO Clan, they simply won't do that as they know they will lose money hand over fist. This game like all online shop games will appeal to the masses first and foremost and the masses are solo pug players or two or three friend players.

Ah here we go again with more rhetoric that boils down to : "There are more pugs than team players, therefore we bring more money, ergo our opinion is the only one that counts."

And people wonder at the source of the animosity between the 2 groups....

[Wraith05]

von Bremerhaven, on 16 December 2012 - 01:21 PM, said:

Ah here we go again with more rhetoric that boils down to : "There are more pugs than team players, therefore we bring more money, ergo our opinion is the only one that counts."

And people wonder at the source of the animosity between the 2 groups....

Wonder which group is more likely to pay though?

Even still the game does need to be populated to keep those willing to pay playing. So while it does need to keep the masses happy and paying (with some paying), it also needs to keep the more likely to pay interested also no matter which group they are in.

It's not about the majority in a F2P game, it's about the group that pays more.

[Zylo]

von Bremerhaven, on 16 December 2012 - 01:21 PM, said:

Ah here we go again with more rhetoric that boils down to : "There are more pugs than team players, therefore we bring more money, ergo our opinion is the only one that counts."

And people wonder at the source of the animosity between the 2 groups....

I wonder which group actually spends more money on the game?

I suspect a far greater portion of the merc corp team players are founders or pay for a premium sub while a far greater portion of pug players pay nothing. Of course PGI will never release this data so we can only make guesses...

I suspect PGI will keep mixing at least some small groups with pug players to make it slightly harder for non-paying players to win so some will buy premium subscriptions to speed up the C-bill and XP grinds. If it's too easy and too many players pay nothing it can be just as damaging as many players leaving the game.

[Weeble]

This topic is irrelevant because we aren't playing the game, yet.

The game is community warfare. Don't you think most people will join a faction if it's on the screen when they sign up? I do.

The game has built-in voip. It will cause major problems when it's activated but that's a topic for another day.

Right now you're playing with a subset of the game. When the game is closer to release quality, voip will be more widespread and most people will join groups. Not happening quickly enough for you? Take it up with the devs. These topics accomplish nothing.

[Jetfire]

JAFO, on 16 December 2012 - 11:25 AM, said:

The bottom line for me is this, and I pose this to the entire community to debate, because we as a community need to understand the problem in order to correct it.

I want PUGS to be a part of this community and I want PUGS to understand what Mechwarrior is in the Battletech Universe and I am willing to teach new pilots how to play this game. With that being said, I challenge All PUGS to do this.

Reach out to the unit leaders in all of the Major IS houses, Periphery groups, or Clans and join one. Be a part of this community and understand what it is about before you make a complaint that you don’t think the game is fair for whatever reason. The truth is, you may not understand what your complaining about or how it actually works in Mechwarrior, but we will help you and teach you.

The big issue the game suffers from right now is that there is no in game lobby, no after match pairings, no integrated voip, no way to link people up quickly and easily to Houses, Clans and Merc units. Making newcomers search for something they likely do not even know exists is asking a lot.

MWO will not last if it devolves into a Halo/BF/COD clone... that market is already plenty full. MWO can only survive in its niche where there is not much competition. Its niche is big stompy mechs in teams playing at role warfare as part of houses, clans or units for control of territory.

PUGS in this game consist of random freelance mercs, a pre-mission breifing and post mission chat with the option to continue dropping as a group would be useful to make this experience cohesive. You could for instance have a vote on 4 tactics pre-match, so that everyone would at least have an idea of what they might want to do to coordinate.

I very much hope the new user experience by 1.0 has something along these lines, if not 0.5 that is out soon.

[Soy]

JAFO, on 16 December 2012 - 11:25 AM, said:

You will join us in one of the largest communities in gaming that has existed far longer than many of you realize.

This is probably the dumbest thing I have ever read.

Edited by Soy, 16 December 2012 - 02:17 PM.

[Nightcrept]

Wraith05, on 16 December 2012 - 01:25 PM, said:

Wonder which group is more likely to pay though?
Even still the game does need to be populated to keep those willing to pay playing. So while it does need to keep the masses happy and paying (with some paying), it also needs to keep the more likely to pay interested also no matter which group they are in.

It's not about the majority in a F2P game, it's about the group that pays more.

That's easy. Generally the ones at the top stop paying as they are at the top and don't need the bonuses. You also get a natural attrition rate of players who get bored or for various reasons just stop playing enough to spend money or stop all together. brand new players will spend nothing until and or if they decide to stick with the game for awhile. So generally it is the mid range players who have decided to stick with the game and are actively grinding who spend the most in the long run. And by releasing hero mechs from time to time you can then get a cash infusion from all player groups. So the future of the game is in making it fun enough for players to decide to stick around awhile. In that respect it doesn't matter if they are in clans or puggers. We just need to make sure they stick around.

[Leetskeet]

tldr he's buttmad about pugs

[JAFO]

Soy, on 16 December 2012 - 02:16 PM, said:

This is probably the dumbest thing I have ever read.

Then you probably didn't read the entire post let alone understand anything that it means or stands for.

[Lykaon]

Mack1, on 16 December 2012 - 12:43 PM, said:

Hate to burst your bubble but whatever you think MWO is all about is wrong unless you think of it as a business because that is exactly what it is. However if this game was a box on a shelf and no online shop I would agree with you. But it's not and the devs want to get as many people in this game having fun as they possibly can as happy people having fun spend money.

They will not alienate the vast majority of people by making a game that only appeals to people who are in some kind of MWO Clan, they simply won't do that as they know they will lose money hand over fist. This game like all online shop games will appeal to the masses first and foremost and the masses are solo pug players or two or three friend players.

Ok so to appeal to the masses AKA solo pug player we need to make some changes.

Remove this whole concept of mechlab.It only complicates matters.We should have a bunch of mech skins that behave exactally alike and have one or two intergrated weapons sort of like an average FPS we will get a mech pistol and a mech knife.

No need to varriable speeds or manuverability or even seperated target reticules for arms and torsos.Just one target reticule and one speed with side strafe ability so the masses are familular with how to "pilot" a mech.

We need infinate respawns on a match so if someone is "unlucky" and gets "headshot" right away they can keep comming back over an over again.

On maps we have power ups like mech machine gun or mech shotgun or even mech sniper rifles and of course we will need mech grenades and mech medic packs but we will call them repair kits we don't want this game to be stupid.Also we will need ammo spawns so you can keep the mech shotgun loaded up.

We should also remove all the silly base cap mechanics it's far to difficult to have multiple means of winning a match.All games should be deathmatch.

And as has been said the third person view is a must.New players have to much difficulty relating to piloting a giant humanoid robot when they are used to just playing a human soldier in other big name games like Call of Duty.

So with all of these changes we will have a big hit for casual players to come in and play for a week or two.