43 replies to this topic

[Squirrelleh]

well, I did live slightly longer than last time. I switched to the ppc variant, and did 180 damage, but I got swamped at the end when all my teammates died. switching to er lasers and i'll let you know how that goes

[Kaijin]

Squirrelleh, on 16 December 2012 - 03:16 PM, said:

well, I did live slightly longer than last time. I switched to the ppc variant, and did 180 damage, but I got swamped at the end when all my teammates died. switching to er lasers and i'll let you know how that goes

ER LL work well on the frozen maps, but you'll find yourself shut down quite often everywhere else. Plain old LL are much more forgiving.

[Quinton]

seems to me everyone disparages the use of LRMs which is just sad, if your dropping into a PUG match its pretty common to see mechs wandering off by themselves and/or walking out of the ECM umbrella, i'd say run with 2xLRM10 with 2-4 tons of ammo, use that to soften up targets that stray out of ECM range, or are off by their lonesome. right now DO NOT USE PPCs yes they have tons of power etc etc, but you can make direct hits on opposing mechs and do 0 damage for whatever reason (yes i know there is a minimum range) and the heat for those is just ridiculous. ton for ton medium and large lasers are the most effective weapon in the game outside of SSRM and SRM, having 4 MLAS or 2 LLAS and the heatsinks to cool them will be pretty effective, when coupled with 2xLRM10 for shooting targets of opportunity outside your laser range and you'll be pretty sound.

if you want proof of this try the stock hunchback in the trial section right now, i can sit back and throw missiles till i run out, then wander in, and if managing heat carefully, i can pull 400-500 dmg in a match without even trying hard.

[WhiteRabbit]

i'd rather ditch the ER LL for LL (if you've got the Cat with 4 energy-hardpoints i'd try 4 ML and 2 SRM6; or some LRMs; for a bit of loner-killing )

but to be honest no weapon will save you if you get swamped... doesn't matter what mech/weapon you're most likely already dead

p.s: if you're the last one standing, you did something right already

Edited by WhiteRabbit, 16 December 2012 - 03:29 PM.

[Oy of MidWorld]

Kaijin, on 16 December 2012 - 03:03 PM, said:

This is just not true. See how easy that is? This WAS an amazing game with deep tactics and great matches, but now it's just a zerg rush to base cap with ECM mechs and a demolition derby brawl at the end.

Sorry man, my "this is just not true" was referring to your pessimistic view that everything is just getting worse. Sorry that you don't like the current situation, in my opinion it was the best patch ever. It took care of most cheesebuilds and added a whole layer of tactics. Missiles are still dangerous, require a little more planing and are a lot more tolerable now that they are not spammed like crazy anymore. Yet they're still a viable tactic. Chain firing an SSRM cheesebuild before the patch, you didn't have to manage heat, weapon grouping, or aiming... I find the game a lot more enjoyable the way it is now.

To the OP, i think lasers are gonna work a lot better in the beginning. Don't bother with small ones though. Oh, and yeah, I'd probably stay away from those ER Large Lasers... Tons of heat, plus the normal ones already have pretty decent range. Personally i like pulse lasers, they deliver the punch a little faster (and harder), range is shorter though, and they have more heat.

Edited by Oy of MidWorld, 16 December 2012 - 03:38 PM.

[AlexWildeagle]

Kaijin, on 16 December 2012 - 03:03 PM, said:

This is just not true. See how easy that is? This WAS an amazing game with deep tactics and great matches, but now it's just a zerg rush to base cap with ECM mechs and a demolition derby brawl at the end.

and you're full of manure.

Before that it was out of control with missiles. Anytime you play battle tech/mechwarrior and people are gutting their mechs to fill them full of missile racks and ammo you know there is a problem. Now it's where it should be, missiles are no longer useable by any simpleton who can pull a trigger.
And quite exagerating, literally half my matches my team has no ECM but now people have to balance out their mechs instead of those stupid LRM boats cause you never know (pugwise at least) when you'll run against ECM.
If every mech could carry ECM then you'd be correct cause heaven knows I'd use it in every variant I had. But it's not, and missiles are back to what they should be.

[Squirrelleh]

well, it didn't work out, but mainly because of an error: i had a yellow screen with no data. da fuq happened there?!

[Squirrelleh]

btw, what's "Pugging" or a "Pug"?

[IceSerpent]

Squirrelleh, on 16 December 2012 - 03:33 PM, said:

well, it didn't work out, but mainly because of an error: i had a yellow screen with no data. da fuq happened there?!

It's a known bug, happens to all of us from time to time.

Regarding your problems, I think the main issue is that you never played MW online (i.e. against other people, not AI bots) - this kind of gameplay is drastically different from SP campaign.

Edit: PUG = Pick Up Group. "Pugging" = queueing solo instead of joining a unit and having a (semi) static group of people on your team.

Edited by IceSerpent, 16 December 2012 - 03:48 PM.

[Zeke Steiner]

LRMs can be useful, just be sure not to launch them unless your confident they'll hit their target or you just want to put pressure on a sniper. Also PPCs have their place in the game and work well as a lighter version of an AC/10, just with higher heat and 90m min range.

If you really need help, get Teamspeak and head on down to the "no guts no galaxy" web page and just log in to their TS server. You can find random poeple to group up with which helps more than just random pugging. Even if you don't communicate, its one less green pilot on the team and team matters.

[Squirrelleh]

ah, then I would be a pug, until i start clanning xD @IceSerpent, what would you recommend then? Just more online play? I know MWO isn't like other online games, but what would be the main difference between MWO and the rest that separates good players from bad?

[Rex Budman]

What's with all the, "LRM's need extra effort" posts? They don't need extra effort you dolts!

If no one counters the other teams ECM - ie. If no one HELPS YOU, you cannot get locks. So no matter how much "effort" you put in, you will not get locks. There is no amount of skill that is going to help you. You cannot solve a puzzle and achieve a lock.

Take the LRM's off your mech. If no one is ECM countering you won't get any locks. You are pugging, so you need a soloist build.

ECM put this game into two catagories. 1. Balanced premades and 2. Soloist brawling pugs. Pugs are all brawls. You need a brawler.

Autocannons, SRM missles or laser boats are the only thing to be used - which in reality covers a majority of weapons in this game.

[Kaijin]

AlexWildeagle, on 16 December 2012 - 03:32 PM, said:

and you're full of manure.

Before that it was out of control with missiles. Anytime you play battle tech/mechwarrior and people are gutting their mechs to fill them full of missile racks and ammo you know there is a problem. Now it's where it should be, missiles are no longer useable by any simpleton who can pull a trigger.
And quite exagerating, literally half my matches my team has no ECM but now people have to balance out their mechs instead of those stupid LRM boats cause you never know (pugwise at least) when you'll run against ECM.
If every mech could carry ECM then you'd be correct cause heaven knows I'd use it in every variant I had. But it's not, and missiles are back to what they should be.

Ditto.

Before ECM, LRMs were easily avoidable, but hurt anyone who didn't avoid them. Organized groups had at most 1 LRM mech. Unless you're referring to the TWO day Festival of Artemis, which seems to be what everyone who hates LRMs refers to when they spout off about how OP LRMs were. Your opinion that LRMs are now where they should be speaks volumes of your bias.

The team with the most ECM wins. This is not exaggeration.

And another thing. I mainly use MPL, LL, and ERLL. I have some LRM builds, but they are by no means the only thing I play. I prefer a game with the depth that LRMs added. MWO now is quite shallow. A twitch FPS paradise to be sure, but lacking strategic interest. Not a game I'm interested in playing, and wouldn't have invested in had I known what a pile of manure PGI would turn it into.

Edited by Kaijin, 16 December 2012 - 04:05 PM.

[IceSerpent]

Squirrelleh, on 16 December 2012 - 03:51 PM, said:

ah, then I would be a pug, until i start clanning xD @IceSerpent, what would you recommend then? Just more online play? I know MWO isn't like other online games, but what would be the main difference between MWO and the rest that separates good players from bad?

Pretty much - the more you play, the better you get. Every time things don't go as expected, you just need to assess what exactly went wrong - did you overextend and get separated from your team? Did you miss someone parking on your six and shooting your rear armor off? How did the enemy team manage to "sneak" 5 Atlases into your base and cap while you were near the midle of the map? And so on.
It was roughly the same deal in MW4 days - one day you are happily slaughtering AI bots that come straight at you with their radar on, the next day you drop against other players and suddenly realize that everybody and their dog run passive all the time so you have to use eyeballs Mk I, model I for targeting, and they never ever run straight at you, and that "skylining is bad, mmkay?", and you have to keep an eye open for folks trying to shoot you in the a$$ when you are not looking, and on top of that all those guys already know how to spread incoming damage by torso-twisting and how to aim for sections of your mech that you don't have armor on anymore.

[Wintersdark]

Kaijin, on 16 December 2012 - 04:05 PM, said:

Ditto.

Before ECM, LRMs were easily avoidable, but hurt anyone who didn't avoid them. Organized groups had at most 1 LRM mech. Unless you're referring to the TWO day Festival of Artemis, which seems to be what everyone who hates LRMs refers to when they spout off about how OP LRMs were. Your opinion that LRMs are now where they should be speaks volumes of your bias.

The team with the most ECM wins. This is not exaggeration.

And another thing. I mainly use MPL, LL, and ERLL. I have some LRM builds, but they are by no means the only thing I play. I prefer a game with the depth that LRMs added. MWO now is quite shallow. A twitch FPS paradise to be sure, but lacking strategic interest. Not a game I'm interested in playing, and wouldn't have invested in had I known what a pile of manure PGI would turn it into.

The team with ECM wins? If team A has not a single LRM/SSRM, and Team B has 8xECM mechs (take note of chassis limitations here too), team B wins given equal skill? I don't think so. I'd argue that it would be extremely one-sided in favor of Team A.

Not to say that people shouldn't use LRM/SSRM's. However, look at the weapon stats. LRM's sport vastly higher DPS than any other weapon (excepting the smallest LRM5pack which is slightly lower than the big weapons), and SSRM's have vast real-world advantages in being guaranteed hits.

Yes, you could use cover... But you can use cover for *any* weapon. Before ECM's, LRM's and SSRM's were simply too good. People got used to this, so come ECM it was an obvious but painful shift in the meta-game: From LRM dominance to LRM irrelevance with extreme amounts of ECM.

The next step is clear. It's a pendulum effect: mounds of ECM's leads to players using fewer LRM's. Fewer LRM's leads to less value in ECM's so fewer ECM's. The pendulum will swing back and forth until it comes to rest in a middle ground.

Now, I'd argue that ECM units should weigh more/take more slots to make it a harder choice if you want to pack one or not. Currently, even with a Commando you give up very little to take it, so it's a no-brainer. Thus, it'll take somewhat longer for the pendulum to come to rest because there's less incentive to back off on ECM use as LRM's go out of style. Still, efficiency is efficiency. Being able to free up that ECM space on your mech is tempting when LRM's are rare.

[Kaijin]

Wintersdark, on 16 December 2012 - 04:58 PM, said:

The team with ECM wins? If team A has not a single LRM/SSRM, and Team B has 8xECM mechs (take note of chassis limitations here too), team B wins given equal skill? I don't think so. I'd argue that it would be extremely one-sided in favor of Team A.

http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__1544169

[Kaspirikay]

Buy an atlas DDC with ECM. You won't suck anymore.

Or

Fit SRM 6 on your catapult. + Medium lasers.

Either way, stick with your group. Your main role is to use your ranged weapons on enemies far away while getting ready for the brawl.

[FerretGR]

Squirreleh: Unfortunately, I think you'll find that ERLLs have some issues as well... they're really, really hot. I prefer LLs because I don't think the extra range is worth the extra heat at all, especially given, as folks are pointing out, there's more short range swordfights than sniper battles these days.

I'm not sure which Cat chassis you're working with, but I'm thinking it's a C1 based on the OP. For a C1, try 2 LL in the torso, 2 ML in the CT, and whatever SRM launchers you like in the wings. SRM6s if you can do it. Toggle the wing doors open to lessen the firing delay (can't remember the switch for this, / maybe?) and use the SRMs like shotguns, ie. up close, and use the LLs at longer range.

As for your framerate issues, I'm having them too on a pretty nice system. It's an optimization problem at this point. Be optimistic: maybe Tuesday's patch will help.

[Roland]

Quote

I don't understand why I suck so terribly. I played MW4 when I was a kid, and from what I remember, I was pretty solid. Although, I never played online...

Then you weren't pretty solid.

Playing against level 9 bots in MW4 was like playing against the worst possible players you would ever meet online.

Quote

My loadout for my catapult is 2 LRM15s with 2 small pulse lasers

Start looking at the weapons you are using.. it'll show you where some of your mistakes are.

For instance, pulse lasers. Currently, pulse lasers are garbage. They are all garbage. Bringing them on your mech is a mistake. They weigh more than standard versions, have reduced range, and only trivially increased damage. Just use standards, and use the extra weight to bring heat sinks.. Or just up to medium lasers (what I would recommend).

Again, a lot of this can be gleaned simply from looking at the stats of the weapons, and seeing that certain weapons are just terrible.

[Wraith05]

Squirrelleh, on 16 December 2012 - 03:51 PM, said:

ah, then I would be a pug, until i start clanning xD @IceSerpent, what would you recommend then? Just more online play? I know MWO isn't like other online games, but what would be the main difference between MWO and the rest that separates good players from bad?

Some advice you may find helpful:

Torso Twisting

When engaged in an enemy/being fired upon it is better to spread out the damage to all of your sections than take it all in 1. To do this you can twist your torso to try and make their shots hit less important systems. (arms, the side torso that still has armor. Your back if your front armor is stripped etc)

Heat management

Every weapon except machine guns produce heat. If you overheat you shut down. If fighting another mech when this happens you give your enemy a clean shot at whatever part of you he wants. Plus you won't be able to fire back. Although you can override a shutdown with "o" it is not recommended unless it's a do or die situation.

Best way to heat manage is useing your weapon groups. You can go up and down through you weapons using the up and down arrows. Left and right arrows move the highlight cursor to the left and right through the groups. Right control will add or remove the highlighted weapon from the group.

Don't alpha everything everytime. This will cause your heat to rise very very quickly. Use your weapons in groups for ranges and different damage/weapon types. You can also put specific weapon groups into chain fire mode (fire one weapon in the group at a time) by hitting the backspace while the group is highlighted. You'll then see the numbers blinking in order.

Doing these methods will help you from overheating as quickly, but watching your heatbar and not firing when it's close to the top is still the best way to prevent shutodwn.

Cover

Just like in any wargame, you can't take damage if you aren't hit. So use cover to your advantage. Duck in and out of buildings, put a friendly or enemy mech between you and whats shooting at you if you are taking too much damage. DONT run in the open unless you can take the hits. This in use with torso twisting will increase your survivablity a TON.

Target locations

Yes coring the center torso is the best way to take a mech down, however it doesn't matter if that mech turns you to slag or disables your weapons before you can. So it's useful to know what to target when.

Unable to hit light mechs reliably? Go for the legs if possible.
Hunchbacks AC20 tearing you a new one? Shoot the hunch (right torso)! (you'll take an arm laser out with it if your lucky).
Atlas's SRMs giving you trouble, shoot his left torso to disable.
Notice a guasscats right torso's armor is gone, shoot it in hopes of taking out the XL engine or at least his gauss. Where you hit and how hard is more important than you may think.

Teamwork

This is a team game mode no matter what people tell you. The best way to be successful is to work with those you are grouped with. Communicate and support them. Don't lone wolf and don't leave them to die either if you can help it. As you've already seen, once your teammates are down, you'll have the remaining enemy hunting you.

Good luck and have fun!