156 replies to this topic

[Krell Ravenkissed]

depends on the pilot's

[Sassori]

If either the Thunderbolt Pilot /OR/ the Warhammer Pilot loaded his SRM's with Inferno's then they're morons. Those things are so unstable and both those mech's are so heat spiky that it would be suicide to do so. Whoever put in Inferno rounds would lose.

Again, I am talking Table Top, since neither mech exists in MW:O as far as we know. I do know that the ThunderBolt is a /fine/ chassis for customizing, all those hard points... delicious.

In the end, the damage difference between the ThunderBolt and the Warhammer isn't a big enough advantage either way to overcome the superior armor the Thunderbolt has. Once you start talking custom layouts, Tech 2 etc, things shift.

[Kenyon Burguess]

thunderbolt. i like its mix of weapons better than the warhammer's heavy ppc build. it doesnt hurt that its later spec includes JJ

[Stefano McCarron]

lol

Inferno is the key and always a good option!
Every Liao learns this in first class!!!

[Skylarr]

Kanil, on 18 May 2012 - 04:03 PM, said:

The Warhammer has as much leg armor as a Jenner. The Thunderbolt will run up and kick the legs off before the Warhammer can punch through the T-Bolt's armor.

Warhammer:

• Head: 3 IS.......9 Armor
  
• C Torso: 22.........34(10)
  
• L/R Torso: 15.........22(8)
  
• L/R Arm: 11.........22
  
• L/R Leg: 15.........30

Thunderbolt:

• Head: 3...........9
  
• C Torso: 21.........30(11)
  
• L/R Torso: 15.........24(6)
  
• L/R Arm: 10.........20
  
• L/R Leg: 15.........29

Jenners Leg has 8 Internal and 6 external

Edited by Skylarr, 18 May 2012 - 07:28 PM.

[Chunkymonkey]

Skylarr, on 18 May 2012 - 07:25 PM, said:

Warhammer:

• Head: 3 IS.......9 Armor
  
• C Torso: 22.........34(10)
  
• L/R Torso: 15.........22(8)
  
• L/R Arm: 11.........22
  
• L/R Leg: 15.........30

Thunderbolt:

• Head: 3...........9
  
• C Torso: 21.........30(11)
  
• L/R Torso: 15.........24(6)
  
• L/R Arm: 10.........20
  
• L/R Leg: 15.........29

Jenners Leg has 8 Internal and 6 external

You sure that is right? Sarna says that the T-Bolt has three tons of armor over the Hammer

[Panzer Faust]

Chunkymonkey, on 18 May 2012 - 07:37 PM, said:

You sure that is right? Sarna says that the T-Bolt has three tons of armor over the Hammer

Typing the stats directly from the 3025 tech readouts now for you

Warhammer

............................IS.....................ARMOR
head.....................3...........................9
center torso.........22..........................22/9
R/L torso..............15.........................17/8
R/L arm................11..........................20
R/L leg..................15..........................15

the previous stated T-Bolt armor is correct

Edited by Panzer Faust, 18 May 2012 - 07:46 PM.

[trycksh0t]

I'd give it to the T-bolt. The T-bolt can take whatever the Warhammer can throw at it, since Warhammers can't fire both-PPCs at the same time after the initial alpha for several turns, while the T-bolt can pound away with LRMs and its LL with abandon, which the Warhammer's armor simply can't stand up to for very long.

In-close, their firepower is so comparable it, once again, goes to the T-bolt's heavier armor.

It basically boils down to this, they've both got similar damage across the range board, so it becomes a slugging match. Armor wins slugging matches every time.

Skylarr, on 18 May 2012 - 07:25 PM, said:

Warhammer:

• Head: 3 IS.......9 Armor
  
• C Torso: 22.........34(10)
  
• L/R Torso: 15.........22(8)
  
• L/R Arm: 11.........22
  
• L/R Leg: 15.........30

Thunderbolt:

• Head: 3...........9
  
• C Torso: 21.........30(11)
  
• L/R Torso: 15.........24(6)
  
• L/R Arm: 10.........20
  
• L/R Leg: 15.........29

Jenners Leg has 8 Internal and 6 external

Where did you get those numbers for the WHM-6R? It's more like:

Head - 3 IS / 9 Armor
CT - 22 IS / 22 Armor
R/L T - 15 IS / 17 Armor
R/L A - 11 IS / 20 Armor
R/L L - 15 IS / 15 Armor
CTR - 9 Armor
L/R TR - 8 Armor


Edit - Ninja'd....

Edited by trycksh0t, 18 May 2012 - 08:03 PM.

[Skylarr]

I printed up a record sheet for each and look at my 3025 book. The Hammer has 217 points of external ( 107 IS ) and tehe T-bolt has 208 points extenal (104 IS ).

[trycksh0t]

Skylarr, on 18 May 2012 - 08:02 PM, said:

I printed up a record sheet for each and look at my 3025 book. The Hammer has 217 points of external ( 107 IS ) and tehe T-bolt has 208 points extenal (104 IS ).

That's the WHM-6D, I believe we're talking about the WHM-6R, which has only 10-tons of standard armor.

Edited by trycksh0t, 18 May 2012 - 08:11 PM.

[Skylarr]

Panzer Faust, on 18 May 2012 - 07:43 PM, said:

Typing the stats directly from the 3025 tech readouts now for you

Warhammer

............................IS.....................ARMOR
head.....................3...........................9
center torso.........22..........................22/9
R/L torso..............15.........................17/8
R/L arm................11..........................20
R/L leg..................15..........................15

the previous stated T-Bolt armor is correct

This is the 6R I see it now.

Edited by Skylarr, 18 May 2012 - 08:20 PM.

[Chunkymonkey]

Make sure they are the base models. trycksho0t, read the rest of this forum.

Edited by Chunkymonkey, 18 May 2012 - 08:17 PM.

[Chunkymonkey]

We all know that the newer 3067 era Warhammer would eat the T-Bolt alive but we are talking about the base production models right now.

[Hawk819]

Warhammer. The Bolt is good, sturdy `Mech, and I hope it's the eleventh `Mech, but the twin PPC's does it all. If atlernate firing is used, then the Bolt is total trouble with capital "T." Add in the lasers, Machine Guns, and SRM. Still, in the hands of the right pilot, the Bolt could arguably come out on top.

[Chunkymonkey]

It could also come down to the role of the mech, The Warhammer would be a excellent defensive mech since their would be less heat with less movement. The Thunder Bolt on the other hand is a very versatile mech making it a jack of all trades.

[Larry Headrick]

I would modify the warhammer by droping the PPCs for Large Lasers, and add armor.
This shortens the range some but gets rid of the minimum which is the problem with the PPCs.

Edited by Larry Headrick, 18 May 2012 - 10:09 PM.

[Zephram Zaphod]

Modification wise, both mech's can be monsters. The difference between 65 and 70 tons is very negligible really. From what I understand as far as hard points go, they would both offer a lot of customization there as well.

As with many things, much depends on terrain. If it is terrain where the Thunderbolt can close to medium range and keep it, the Thunderbolt should win due to heavier armor. If the Warhammer can keep it at long range, two PPC's should beat a single LRM-15.

Finding a sweet spot that allows for the PPC's and not the large laser however will be quite difficult.

[Pvt Dancer]

I went WH, because the WH can start walking backwards to keep the TB at range, once they get in PPC range. The T-Bolt can slowly whittle it down by running forward, but it will make it harder for either to hit with any consistancy. The only difference is the TB can run (2 heat), fire the LL (8 heat) and LRM 15 (5 heat) and not gain any heat, while the hammer need to fire a single PPC every other turn, as he can't afford the movement penalty at +4 heat.

The average roll on the LRM 15, if it hits, is 9pts of damage (on a roll of 5-8, 12pts on a 9 or 10, and 15pts on a 11 or 12). The T-Bolt is really doing as much damage at range as the War Hammer (17pts vs 20pts). The biggest advantage the Hammer has /is/ that little extra range the PPCs have on the LL, where his PPC shots will be medium and the LL will be long, but that will only last a turn.

I guess I was wrong, I would have to give it to the T-Bolt if the pilot has some discipline and resists alpha striking with everything at the 5-6 hex range, over heating his mech (+8 heat if the LRM, SRM, 3 MLs and LL are fired for a potential 42pts of damage). The WH has the same problem, as a single PPC and two MLs and the 6 pack is 20 heat, but possibly 32pts of damage.

The TB could over-come his heat problem by being careful of what he fires till he gets back down to +7 to +3 heat in a few turns, but it means not firing everything. Same thing for the Hammer... fire 1 PPC, 1 ML and the 6 pack and he is at 17 heat and still doing a possible 27pts of damage at medium range.

[Sassori]

Pvt Dancer, on 18 May 2012 - 11:52 PM, said:

I went WH, because the WH can start walking backwards to keep the TB at range, once they get in PPC range. The T-Bolt can slowly whittle it down by running forward, but it will make it harder for either to hit with any consistancy. The only difference is the TB can run (2 heat), fire the LL (8 heat) and LRM 15 (5 heat) and not gain any heat, while the hammer need to fire a single PPC every other turn, as he can't afford the movement penalty at +4 heat.

The average roll on the LRM 15, if it hits, is 9pts of damage (on a roll of 5-8, 12pts on a 9 or 10, and 15pts on a 11 or 12). The T-Bolt is really doing as much damage at range as the War Hammer (17pts vs 20pts). The biggest advantage the Hammer has /is/ that little extra range the PPCs have on the LL, where his PPC shots will be medium and the LL will be long, but that will only last a turn.

I guess I was wrong, I would have to give it to the T-Bolt if the pilot has some discipline and resists alpha striking with everything at the 5-6 hex range, over heating his mech (+8 heat if the LRM, SRM, 3 MLs and LL are fired for a potential 42pts of damage). The WH has the same problem, as a single PPC and two MLs and the 6 pack is 20 heat, but possibly 32pts of damage.

The TB could over-come his heat problem by being careful of what he fires till he gets back down to +7 to +3 heat in a few turns, but it means not firing everything. Same thing for the Hammer... fire 1 PPC, 1 ML and the 6 pack and he is at 17 heat and still doing a possible 27pts of damage at medium range.

Walking backwards only gives one round of fire: Start firing at 18 hexes. Move back 4, Tbolt moves 6. Total distance 16 hexes. Fire again and move, total distance 14 hexes. Now the Tbolt has the advantage by being able to fire consistently and maintain optimum range for the LRM while still being at long for the Large Laser. and both PPC's are still at long range.

A good pilot, depending on terrain, might well be able to make it so the Warhammer only starts firing at 17 total distance, then after that first salvo of 2 PPC's vs 1 LRM-15 (While the LRM-15 could have been doing damage from as far back as 21 hexes, don't forget, outranging the PPC's there) till the Large Laser can be brought into play. In the end... I still give it to the Thunderbolt all skill being equal.

EDIT: To add the Quote, didn't realize it'd bounce me to top of next page.

Edited by Christopher Dayson, 19 May 2012 - 12:00 AM.

[LctRoyFokker]

The 70 ton Warhammer has two things the 55 ton Thunderbolt dosent, PPC's