310 replies to this topic

[Refizul]

MiG77, on 21 May 2012 - 05:52 AM, said:

I would say we are playing exactly Mechwarrior (meaning computer games that are based on battletech), not TT.

QFT!

The devs have stated often enough that they want a place on the battlefield for every weight class. So if the games really comes down to "my mechs bigger than yours" for some reason, I bet we will see that reason changed in the open beta. That's what beta testing is there for after all.
Personally, I will save my nerdrage till I actually played the damn thing and have the real numbers to rage about.

[Vexgrave Lars]

Dev's? Any response to this thread?

That is the singular question remaining, pertaining to this thread.

Edited by Vexgrave Lars, 21 May 2012 - 07:14 AM.

[The Bounty Hunter]

Azantia, on 18 May 2012 - 09:03 PM, said:

A very sad turn of events. Score one for the Mech Assault / mainstream gaming crowd. So many things right PGI, but a very solid core concept ruined.

Welcome back to the days of everyone load up a Heavy/Assault.

/Disappointed.

Whaaaaaa......

The Bounty Hunter hands you a tissue.......

[Kudzu]

MiG77, on 21 May 2012 - 05:52 AM, said:

I would say we are playing exactly Mechwarrior (meaning computer games that are based on battletech), not TT.

Yes, because the old mechwarrior games were something to be proud of...

[PANZERBUNNY]

goon, on 19 May 2012 - 03:02 PM, said:

oh boy NOW you've gone and done it.

Sir, World of Diceroll's is not fun, after awhile, you realise that 75% of the game is random values and the developers have done their damdest not to balance the game but to make sure NO ONE is good at it, and if you are, you never win. you're essentially trying to beat someone at a Rulet Wheel, and paying Wargaming makes spinning it less difficult.

and really once Plannetside 2 and of course MWO come out people will abandon the game in DROVES, the only reason people are playing it now is because there's nowhere else to go.

So no, I do not want to play a game where based on some random value I have no control over my AC/20 takes a 50 degree turn out the front of my gun and hits a mountan and then I die for missing that shot.

Popularity is not a mesure of quality, sir.

This is a terrible post of exaggeration.

Cup of tea? Wanna talk about it?

If you don't wanna play a game based on random values...play chess, checkers or snakes and ladders...OPPS..wait...that has dice. Guess you're SOL.

Edited by PANZERBUNNY, 21 May 2012 - 07:42 AM.

[KingCobra]

To be honest i hope they 10x the armor and defense ability's of the mechs longer game play makes for more fun x10

[MiG77]

Kudzu, on 21 May 2012 - 07:41 AM, said:

Yes, because the old mechwarrior games were something to be proud of...

That is irrelevant and misses my point. Mechwarrior (meaning the computers games) never was ment to be exactly like TT. It is just based battletech universe and uses different methods that fit better realtime enviroment.

Edited by MiG77, 21 May 2012 - 09:21 AM.

[GaussDragon]

Kudzu, on 21 May 2012 - 07:41 AM, said:

Yes, because the old mechwarrior games were something to be proud of...

A large portion of us are here thanks to those very games, not some tabletop game. Count your mixed blessings because MWO wouldn't be as popular without them.

[Alaric Wolf Kerensky]

Azantia, on 18 May 2012 - 11:01 PM, said:

If doubling ammo requirements was a by-product of doubling armor, then thats more of a reason NOT to double armor.

Here is why :
Lets take a mech that mounts the following :
Gauss Rifle (8 shots per ton by TT - 16 if doubled)
LRM 20 (6 shots per ton by TT - 16 if doubled)
SRM 6 - 15 shots per ton by TT - 30 if doubled)
some laser weapons

by doubled ammo values you would get 16 Gauss rounds, 12 LRM shots and 30 SRM shots for 3 tonsm which by tabletop standards would actually require 6 tons. So you have gained 3 free tons, which can be used for armor, more weapons, heat sinks, etc.

Are you really so enraged by this that you are that ignorant? If people have double armor values, it will take twice as much ammunition to bring them down. You yourself have been raging about how it will take 5 AC/20 hits to kill a Centurion. If someone skimped on the ammunition because they have a doubled amount, that is half their supply of AC/20 ammo spent just to kill a medium. Anyone who cut down on ammunition to add more weapons is going to be sorely disappointed when they run out of ammunition because they forgot to take into equation that their opponents have twice as much armor as normal.

I get that you are a TT purist, but you really do need to relax a little and think about this. Ok, so you are disappointed by the rest of the community who accept that none of us have actually played the game yet and double armor values might make for a better experience. I would like to point out for any of the Alpha-strike haters out there, that doubled armor actually REDUCES the effectiveness of Alpha boating. I believe I read that it would take 36 Medium Laser hits to kill an Atlas with double armor? Well I would rather have that than 18 in all honesty. Put some faith in the developers, and go into open beta unbiased. If you still do not like it after a month, then it is time to rage a little and petition for a change.

Edited by Alaric Wolf Kerensky, 21 May 2012 - 10:09 AM.

[Alaric Wolf Kerensky]

PANZERBUNNY, on 21 May 2012 - 07:41 AM, said:

This is a terrible post of exaggeration.

Cup of tea? Wanna talk about it?

If you don't wanna play a game based on random values...play chess, checkers or snakes and ladders...OPPS..wait...that has dice. Guess you're SOL.

Actually, goon has it quite right in my honest opinion. World of Tanks is EXTREMELY frustrating solely because of dice rolls and hidden values. Add in biased values and laser-accurate artillery, and the potential for a truly amazing experience is ruined. Random values have very little place in real-time games because in the end it often does come down to who got luckier, not who played better. While weapons should not be laser-accurate (pardon the pun) in MWO, they should hit damn close to where you aim them. By that I mean instead of missing a 'Mech completely, possibly your shot aimed for the center torso ends up hitting the right torso.

[Evex]

Alaric Wolf Kerensky, on 21 May 2012 - 10:20 AM, said:

Actually, goon has it quite right in my honest opinion. World of Tanks is EXTREMELY frustrating solely because of dice rolls and hidden values. Add in biased values and laser-accurate artillery, and the potential for a truly amazing experience is ruined. Random values have very little place in real-time games because in the end it often does come down to who got luckier, not who played better. While weapons should not be laser-accurate (pardon the pun) in MWO, they should hit damn close to where you aim them. By that I mean instead of missing a 'Mech completely, possibly your shot aimed for the center torso ends up hitting the right torso.

Its called damage teleportation is some rpg circles, where you aim say for the center torso and it hits the left leg. This is different though from damage taken from movement of an enemy. A battlemechs targeting computer can only aim forward, so if you were facing another battlemech of equal size you be aiming at the center torso. A battlemech will all ways fire at the center torso, since its weapons lock on to the enemy battlemechs center mass. When an enemy battle mech is moving that is when you get shots hitting the right/left torso, right/left arm, or right/left leg depending on terrain and the way the enemy moves. The only way to aim at somewhere else beside the center torso is to use manual aim, and target the desired area yourself. Like I've said twice before you guys need to calm down, as we don't know what the armor values actually stand for.

[Kenyon Burguess]

lets be honest. everyone QQ's about getting headshot by snipers, everyone QQ's about getting missle boat slammed before you can ever reach your target. everyone QQ's about being melted to the core in one flash. everyone one QQ's about legging. everyone QQ's about tons,slots,ammo and heat. what is left? the devs are fixing things and making their way thru the old games, good and bad, and trying to balance what is broken. more armor numbers may seem like carebear tactics to some but its to protect you in the long run from everything we hate most about the old games. things will be different in MWO, your going to see an unprecidented level of tactics and combined arms in play. how long will your atlas last when an entire lance targets your beaconed arse AND a commander drops an airstrike on your location? i want to use a 40 ton medium mech. i cant do that in any game including table top without making special circumstances happen I.E. no heavy/assault mechs in play. so lets all hold our breath till the beta happens and then give a reasonable opinion on how the game plays

[Bullwerk]

Geist Null, on 21 May 2012 - 10:38 AM, said:

lets be honest. everyone QQ's about getting headshot by snipers, everyone QQ's about getting missle boat slammed before you can ever reach your target. everyone QQ's about being melted to the core in one flash. everyone one QQ's about legging. everyone QQ's about tons,slots,ammo and heat. what is left? the devs are fixing things and making their way thru the old games, good and bad, and trying to balance what is broken. more armor numbers may seem like carebear tactics to some but its to protect you in the long run from everything we hate most about the old games. things will be different in MWO, your going to see an unprecidented level of tactics and combined arms in play. how long will your atlas last when an entire lance targets your beaconed arse AND a commander drops an airstrike on your location? i want to use a 40 ton medium mech. i cant do that in any game including table top without making special circumstances happen I.E. no heavy/assault mechs in play. so lets all hold our breath till the beta happens and then give a reasonable opinion on how the game plays

Amen to that!

[SeDevri]

Geist Null, on 21 May 2012 - 10:38 AM, said:

lets be honest. everyone QQ's about getting headshot by snipers, everyone QQ's about getting missle boat slammed before you can ever reach your target. everyone QQ's about being melted to the core in one flash. everyone one QQ's about legging. everyone QQ's about tons,slots,ammo and heat. what is left? the devs are fixing things and making their way thru the old games, good and bad, and trying to balance what is broken. more armor numbers may seem like carebear tactics to some but its to protect you in the long run from everything we hate most about the old games. things will be different in MWO, your going to see an unprecidented level of tactics and combined arms in play. how long will your atlas last when an entire lance targets your beaconed arse AND a commander drops an airstrike on your location? i want to use a 40 ton medium mech. i cant do that in any game including table top without making special circumstances happen I.E. no heavy/assault mechs in play. so lets all hold our breath till the beta happens and then give a reasonable opinion on how the game plays

Huzzah!

[William Petersen]

Geist Null, on 21 May 2012 - 10:38 AM, said:

i want to use a 40 ton medium mech. i cant do that in any game including table top without making special circumstances happen I.E. no heavy/assault mechs in play.

Two words: Battle Value.

[Vexgrave Lars]

An answer can be patiently sought by the Dev's (after the holiday) without calling people out for wanting what we all want, a solid fun game. In all fairness, hubris is rampant in this post.

Anyone have any evidence to counter the numbers? Not "I think" statements but, "I know and here is my facts to support my position."

But for those of you that love this "solution" to the match longevity issue. Enjoy the preview screens, because I would bet it won't be here after beta. You say you need more armor to survive.. I say you need to learn to drive your mech.

[Grotonomus]

There has to be a reason the Devs added more armor. Otherwise it wouldn't have happened.....

[MiG77]

Arden Sortek, on 21 May 2012 - 11:44 AM, said:

There has to be a reason the Devs added more armor. Otherwise it wouldn't have happened.....

I would guess that they want weapons to fire faster than once every 10 second... which would make game "feel" faster regardless that it would take same amount of "time" to destroy anything. It is just one of those things that is usually better to do in real time enviroments. In TT it really dont matter if one "round" 1,10 or 60s. It still takes same amount of real time to play trought.

[Kudzu]

GaussDragon, on 21 May 2012 - 09:37 AM, said:

A large portion of us are here thanks to those very games, not some tabletop game. Count your mixed blessings because MWO wouldn't be as popular without them.

Bring me your mouth breathers, your twitch junkies, your boaters, your poptarts... maybe you'll accidentally bring someone worthwhile into the community.

[Bullwerk]

Kudzu, on 21 May 2012 - 12:20 PM, said:

Bring me your mouth breathers, your twitch junkies, your boaters, your poptarts... maybe you'll accidentally bring someone worthwhile into the community.

Seriously? This is what the community is going to devolve into over something we know nothing about? I'm starting to regret actually associating myself with much of this community in the last few weeks. It's going to be embarrassing being labeled as part of this group when new players come calling after release. And it seemed like this was going to be the one community that was good enough to buck the trend of anonymous intardwebs stupidity. Guess that's what I get for hoping.