68 replies to this topic

[Zero Neutral]

When I hit a Raven it definitely takes damage, but for some reason the Raven takes way more hits than any of the other light mechs I come across.

I always chalk it up to the fact that it has a skinny torso with each side torso very close to the even skinner CT. This makes it a lot easier to spread damage around.

[Ghogiel]

Green Mamba, on 18 December 2012 - 09:29 AM, said:

I am talking about an Overheat stop which shouldnt be a lagstop

But it does. If it stops while at high speed the hitbox is still somewhere ahead of the mech.

You'll also often notice that they teleport a few meters to catch up their actual position as the power up and start moving again.

I use my raven 3L precisely because it is often the most survivable mech in the game. It's the only reason I bought it. And its the reason why I moth balled my jenners.

[Kaijin]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 18 December 2012 - 08:48 AM, said:

Its exploiting the lag shield in the netcode. Completely allowed exploiting. So run a Raven and exploit it yourself.
IMO this is something the [redacted] do well. They see an exploit and mass abuse it to prove the point that its broken. They should get on 8 manning all ECM Raven teams to show that off

I eagerly await the video of a flock of Lowtax ECM Ravens vs. Paul.

[Agent 0 Fortune]

There are 4 separate issues at play with the Raven.

• ECM, this makes the raven immune to SSRM2 and LRM, before the last patch, Streak-Cats were the bane of all light mechs, able to end them with a single volley. Now with ECM, the Raven must be killed by conventional weapons, which highlights the other issues.

• Water, this doesn’t apply on all maps, but water reduces and/or eliminates damage to the submerged locations, on an atlas that’s your feet, on a small mech it can be half or more of your hitbox locations.

• Lag shield. This is something we are all familiar with, shooting at a fast moving light mech but failing to connect. This can be compensated for by aiming 5 to 15 meters ahead of your target. It is an issue with all fast mechs, but much more noticeable on the Raven due to issue #4.

• Hit Box. The Raven has a unique and “buggy” hitbox layout, one that has too much negative space. This is why they will occasionally take no damage, even when standing still or shut down. If you fail to directly connect with the Raven’s minuscule hitbox locations they will take little or no damage; big bore ballistics like the AC20, can achieve a partial hit for some damage, while a smaller Gauss round will pass harmlessly though. Even worse, all appear to be direct hits client side, but server-side they do no damage.

[Kaldor]

Rashhaverak, on 18 December 2012 - 09:21 AM, said:

Once collisions are turned back on this problem will be reduced. You won't have eight ravens running around, haphazardly bouncing off of everyone and each other, because they will be falling all over themselves and quickly dispatched.

Until then, we will just have to suffer the occasional D-bag team that tries to exploit the holes in the current design. If you play with a good, well coordinated team you can still beat them, just bring lots of SRMs.

Collisions? When? Q3, 2013?

I agree with the OP on the level that something does seem to be weird with the Raven. Ive hit them with 3x SRM6s and barely done any damage. Or even a pair of LL and they just turn yellow. There are times when I hit with a single AC20 to their back armor and it should kill them, but only turns them orange. Add in netcode issues, and they are pretty evil. The only real counter is SSRMs and an ECM or two to get the upper hand.



Something is not quite right.

[pcunite]

Agent 0 Fortune, on 18 December 2012 - 11:02 AM, said:

Hit Box. The Raven has a unique and “buggy” hitbox layout, one that has too much negative space. This is why they will occasionally take no damage, even when standing still or shut down. If you fail to directly connect with the Raven’s minuscule hitbox locations they will take little or no damage; big bore ballistics like the AC20, can achieve a partial hit for some damage, while a smaller Gauss round will pass harmlessly though. Even worse, all appear to be direct hits client side, but server-side they do no damage.

Thanks for this ... I've been mostly unable to kill them and this explains why.

[Gregore]

I have to agree with op, I have chased a raven with 3 ssrm 2 and it took 60 or 70 missiles to kill it.
I even had to chainfire the ssrm as my heat was getting into 90+% just from ssrm at one raven.

[Solis Obscuri]

Green Mamba, on 18 December 2012 - 08:55 AM, said:

Wow, I would really hope people are "NOT" stooping that low intentionally.I average about 40 to 50 ping but I live In the US ,but I do regularly see some very high pings in other players

God, I haven't had ping that good since September... and I live <100 miles from Vancouver.

Lucky if I have <110 these days...

[Codejack]

Agent 0 Fortune, on 18 December 2012 - 11:02 AM, said:

Streak-Cats were the bane of all light mechs, able to end them with a single volley.

I am SO sick of this nonsense: Anyone getting one-shotted by a streakcat just SUCKS at building a mech because they stripped armor off of critical areas.

A max streakcat had 6xSSRM2, doing 30 points of damage spread across at least your entire torso, as well as your less important arm (assuming you have ever played the game before and turn your torso as the missiles come in).

My COMMANDO has over 100 armor just on the front torso and arms, so the lightest mech in the game should take 3-4 volleys to kill.

Jenners and Ravens often took 6-7 volleys to kill. If they died, it was because they let themselves get outnumbered, or were overconfident in the lagshield and so didn't withdraw when they ran into the one mech in the game that could kill them before they killed it.

Since then, my A1 got changed to 6xSRM6 + Artemis. If the netGods are being kind, that mech puts 90 points of damage in 1 or 2 hitboxes. It is MUCH more powerful, MUCH better at killing mediums and up, but just crazy hard to hit a light.

[Chemie]

Agent 0 Fortune, on 18 December 2012 - 11:02 AM, said:

There are 4 separate issues at play with the Raven.

• ECM, this makes the raven immune to SSRM2 and LRM, before the last patch, Streak-Cats were the bane of all light mechs, able to end them with a single volley. Now with ECM, the Raven must be killed by conventional weapons, which highlights the other issues.

• Water, this doesn’t apply on all maps, but water reduces and/or eliminates damage to the submerged locations, on an atlas that’s your feet, on a small mech it can be half or more of your hitbox locations.

• Lag shield. This is something we are all familiar with, shooting at a fast moving light mech but failing to connect. This can be compensated for by aiming 5 to 15 meters ahead of your target. It is an issue with all fast mechs, but much more noticeable on the Raven due to issue #4.

• Hit Box. The Raven has a unique and “buggy” hitbox layout, one that has too much negative space. This is why they will occasionally take no damage, even when standing still or shut down. If you fail to directly connect with the Raven’s minuscule hitbox locations they will take little or no damage; big bore ballistics like the AC20, can achieve a partial hit for some damage, while a smaller Gauss round will pass harmlessly though. Even worse, all appear to be direct hits client side, but server-side they do no damage.

Wrong. None of these compare to Knock downs being removed. if you put knowck downs back in, the 4-man raven killer squad is dead. Ravens can run around heavies hunting lights with no worry because fo no knock down.

[Thorqemada]

My Stalker tears down an Atlas in 2 to 3 Alphas yet a Raven can run straight through it ten times and becomes slightly yellow....only when they for some reason stop (i.e, to shot someone much slower in the back) than it MAY work to Alpha them down.
It may change over time when more and more improvements be implemented into the game.

[Lucky Noob]

I Played in an Trial Raven yesterday and in Game i was overheated and powered down ( gaustic yeah )

An Phrakt was standing about 20 Meters before me and fired all what he had to offer at me, and i coudnt believe it, he missed nearly all shots ( from 20 Meters standing still to an powered down Mech)

Damm i loled like hell. but generaly its realy an issiu.

[Glythe]

In short..... yes.

It's just flat out ridiculous at the moment to be honest.

[Rascula]

Agreed, It shouldn't be happening for whatever the reasons. Lights are lights.. 2 - 3 hits should be an issue for them and it really isn't at the moment.

[Chemie]

ever see 80 LRMS hit a comando who is standing still? Thats a single shot kill.

Now ballistics, laser etc? Good luck on a raven at 150 kph.

[Union Jaxis]

Made note of this yesterday. A raven ran into our traveling group of 6 assault mechs and danced around for a good minute. Then it turns around and leaves orange on every hull. I run a 6 medium laser format. I can get some good steady shots.

[PropagandaWar]

Your not seeing things its there. I have to far way off into the wild blue yonder to hit them. Whats funny is they can take 4 or 5 salvos to the face and the armor just blinks. But if you find that sweet spot of invisible raven he's down. Same goes for jennys and commandos. Only reason people complain less about commando's is they burn quicker.

[MrRuLZ]

Yes, this is a very annoying problem, and I tend to rage a lot on this one.

Agent 0 fortune summed this up very well.

The other big problem is that the lag shield is very pronounced even on slow moving mechs:

- Try to hit a mech with an alpha strike, when he is full stopped, or an afk: it will do full alpha strike damage.

- Now try to hit a mech that moves, even very slowly, or move a bit yourself. Even if you focus your target precisely during the whole shot, the ennemy mech will take 1/3 damages, at best!


Another problem is that they put the ECM on the streak capable mechs, making them all mighty. And now the jenner kinda lose it's jetpack, making him kind of useless in comparaison with a raven.That's really a huge design flaw in my opinion :/

I really love this game, but thoses balances issues really break the game, making some mechs become really useless

[Green Mamba]

Havent heard anything so far from the Devs on this

[Khobai]

Ravens take way more to kill than an Atlas.