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This Game Has 3 Types Of Weapons. Dramatically Decreased From Previous Mw Titles


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#21 Cerebelli

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 02:33 PM

View PostxXSadisticXx, on 18 December 2012 - 01:17 PM, said:

you seem to have forgot a few things like:

MWO also has dumbfire SRM's

Pulse lasers could hardly be called automatic in MW4

AC2 and Uac5 can be considered automatic here

And lastly MW4 was a terrible game and you shouldn't compare it to this


View PostxXSadisticXx, on 18 December 2012 - 01:17 PM, said:

And lastly MW4 was a terrible game and you shouldn't compare it to this


View PostxXSadisticXx, on 18 December 2012 - 01:17 PM, said:

MW4 was a terrible game


Get out.

#22 General Taskeen

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 02:38 PM

Some things are definitely missing for weapon variety. One of the issues that bothers me is that the current weapon designs don't account for other types of weapons that appear later.

*Pulse Laser family don't fire as automatic 'like' MG's or Autocannons , the Vulture firing MPL. X-Pulse Lasers appear later that have the same range as regular lasers for more heat. If pulse lasers are featured as they are, these will go largely unused. An example is a X-Large Pulse Laser that fires for 14 heat.

*SRMs act more like dead-fire missiles or MRM's that fire all missiles at once, very inaccurately. They should ripple fire instead to be more unique when more ammunition types or other missile systems appear.

*Autocannons are full damage shot, rather than full auto, very fast fire bursts; LB-X lacks a unique 'flak' burst effect of cluster ammo; UAC's are "double shot" rather than a straight 2x better fire rate (this type of feature is going to be ridiculous when Clan UAC/10's and UAC/20's appear)

Edited by General Taskeen, 18 December 2012 - 02:39 PM.


#23 KuruptU4Fun

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 02:48 PM

X-Pulse lasers fire faster than normal lasers, accounting for your issue of them running hotter than regular lasers.

#24 Roland

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 02:53 PM

View PostTennex, on 18 December 2012 - 01:16 PM, said:


In previous titles. Pulse lasers and AC operated similar to Machine Guns do in this game. And it added another layer and a good reason to pick Pulse Lasers over Lasers

No, you are incorrect.

Neither AC's, nor UAC's, nor pulse lasers functioned like that in MW4.

#25 syngyne

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 03:00 PM

View PostRoland, on 18 December 2012 - 02:53 PM, said:


No, you are incorrect.

Neither AC's, nor UAC's, nor pulse lasers functioned like that in MW4.


Yeah, I always got the impression that while the graphic showed a stream of rounds from the MW4 ACs, they were actually hitscan weapons that did all their damage in one lump.

Edited by syngyne, 18 December 2012 - 03:01 PM.


#26 Tennex

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 03:33 PM

View Postsyngyne, on 18 December 2012 - 03:00 PM, said:

Yeah, I always got the impression that while the graphic showed a stream of rounds from the MW4 ACs, they were actually hitscan weapons that did all their damage in one lump.


now that i think about it i think they were pretty much lasers with very fast CD.

doesn't change the fact that thers still a lack of waepon variety in this game tho :\

#27 Noth

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 03:37 PM

Rapid fire ballistics are redundant to how lasers work in this game. In fact they'd be flat out worse with more downsides.

#28 stjobe

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 03:50 PM

One-hit ballistics (ACs, PPC)
Shotgun ballistics (LB-10X)
Autofire ballistics (MG)

Slow lasers (regular lasers)
Fast lasers (pulse lasers)
Autofire "laser" (flamer)

Shotgun missiles (SRMs)
Lock-on missiles (SSRMs)
Lock-on shotgun missiles (LRMs)

I make that nine types.

#29 Tennex

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 03:53 PM

View PostNoth, on 18 December 2012 - 03:37 PM, said:

Rapid fire ballistics are redundant to how lasers work in this game. In fact they'd be flat out worse with more downsides.


lasers are instant. no travel time

View Poststjobe, on 18 December 2012 - 03:50 PM, said:

One-hit ballistics (ACs, PPC)
Shotgun ballistics (LB-10X)
Autofire ballistics (MG)

Slow lasers (regular lasers)
Fast lasers (pulse lasers)
Autofire "laser" (flamer)

Shotgun missiles (SRMs)
Lock-on missiles (SSRMs)
Lock-on shotgun missiles (LRMs)

I make that nine types.


pulse laseres just have a shorter duration than lasers. they fire by the exact same means.

Edited by Tennex, 18 December 2012 - 03:53 PM.


#30 Noth

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 03:54 PM

View PostTennex, on 18 December 2012 - 03:51 PM, said:


lasers are instant. no travel time


Exactly, one of the reasons why ballistics like in previous games would be worse than the lasers here. Both would be damage over time, thus spread damage out, but the laser would be easier to hit with and keep on target because it is instant. The laser is also lighter, can be boated better, and doesn't have to worry about ammo explosions. It's flat out worse, and no reason for it to be in the game.

#31 syngyne

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 03:55 PM

View PostTennex, on 18 December 2012 - 03:51 PM, said:



lasers are instant. no travel time


I think the point they were making was lasers in this game are DoT rather than instant damage, so their damage tends to spread around. The advantages of ballistics in this game are that they dump all their damage into one location. If you make ballistics rapid fire, you're essentially turning them into a laser with a travel time (since the rounds are going to be harder to land all in the same location).

#32 Tennex

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 03:55 PM

View PostNoth, on 18 December 2012 - 03:54 PM, said:


Exactly, one of the reasons why ballistics like in previous games would be worse than the lasers here. Both would be damage over time, thus spread damage out, but the laser would be easier to hit with and keep on target because it is instant. The laser is also lighter, can be boated better, and doesn't have to worry about ammo explosions. It's flat out worse, and no reason for it to be in the game.


you can easily balance a weapon by tweaking stats. but you can't add uniqueness by tweaking stats (pulse lasers in MWO is not really unique from lasers)

Edited by Tennex, 18 December 2012 - 04:02 PM.


#33 Kousagi

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 03:56 PM

People are forgetting that we are in the year 3049 in battletech, We have pretty much all the weapons that were in the game at that time frame. Yes, PGI changed how a few weapons kinda acted to better balance the game out for Real time combat as apposed to Turn based combat.

MW4 was the worse of the Mechwarrior games. Wizkids did horrible things to the battletech IP.

Now once clans come out we will have some new toys, then once we get in to 3056 and on there will be more new toys. So just wait till they start filling out the time line for your late stage weapons to come in to play.

#34 Tennex

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 03:59 PM

View Postsyngyne, on 18 December 2012 - 03:55 PM, said:

I think the point they were making was lasers in this game are DoT rather than instant damage, so their damage tends to spread around. The advantages of ballistics in this game are that they dump all their damage into one location. If you make ballistics rapid fire, you're essentially turning them into a laser with a travel time (since the rounds are going to be harder to land all in the same location).


that's a really good point. but the point damage role was filled by Gauss rifle. And for AC to take Gauss's fire mode just because its better.

But by that logic, since point fire is the only optimum way to deliver damage, lasers and missiles would be obsolete.

but lasers and missiles arn't obsolete because they have unique modes of fire from Gauss.


Tankslug/lasers online,

could be tankslug, gatlingun, lasers, laser gatlinggun online

Edited by Tennex, 18 December 2012 - 04:04 PM.


#35 stjobe

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 04:04 PM

View PostTennex, on 18 December 2012 - 03:53 PM, said:

pulse laseres just have a shorter duration than lasers. they fire by the exact same means.

Exactly. "Faster" as in shorter beam duration.
Delivering 10 damage in one hit or several hits is a major difference between the AC/10 or LB-10X.
Delivering 6 damage in 0.75 seconds or 5 damage in 1.0 seconds is almost as great a difference when it comes to medium lasers.

Hence, slow lasers and fast lasers. Different weapons.

Edited by stjobe, 18 December 2012 - 04:05 PM.


#36 Noth

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 04:05 PM

View PostTennex, on 18 December 2012 - 03:59 PM, said:


that's a really good point. but the point damage role was filled by Gauss rifle. And for AC to take Gauss's fire mode just because its better.

But by that logic, since point fire is the only optimum way to deliver damage, lasers and missiles would be obsolete.

but lasers and missiles arn't obsolete because they have unique modes of fire from Gauss.


Ballistics fill the upfront single area damage role, laser fill the damage over time, LRMs fill the indirect fire and long range spread damage, SRMs fill a shotgun role, SSRMs, fill a short ranged easy spread damage. There is some bleed over, but each have pretty good roles. Ballistics that were rapid fire don't have a defined role that they aren't outclassed in. It's the fact that lasers would be better than them in nearly every way that makes them obsolete.

#37 Tennex

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 04:14 PM

View PostNoth, on 18 December 2012 - 04:05 PM, said:


Ballistics fill the upfront single area damage role, laser fill the damage over time, LRMs fill the indirect fire and long range spread damage, SRMs fill a shotgun role, SSRMs, fill a short ranged easy spread damage. There is some bleed over, but each have pretty good roles. Ballistics that were rapid fire don't have a defined role that they aren't outclassed in. It's the fact that lasers would be better than them in nearly every way that makes them obsolete.


Like i said rapid fire ballistics would still be unique from DoT lasers.

you are ignoring travel time. Is like saying a rocket launcher is the same as a sniper rifle.

They fire completely differently because the two has significantly different tarvel time and you would need to lead the target. Whatever disadvantage there is in slow rocket is made up for by the damage done.

which by the powers of deduction *wink* can be applied to rapid fire ballistics to make up for slower travel time.

Edited by Tennex, 18 December 2012 - 04:18 PM.


#38 Noth

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 04:19 PM

View PostTennex, on 18 December 2012 - 04:14 PM, said:


Like i said rapid fire ballistics would still be unique from DoT lasers.

you are ignoring travel time. Is like saying a rocket launcher is the same as a sniper rifle.

They fire completely differently because the two has significantly different tarvel time and you would need to lead the target. Whatever disadvantage there is in slow rocket is made up for by the damage done.


They are outclassed completely by lasers. They are pointless. The damage difference would not be as great as the difference between a sniper rifle and a rocket. It would be a slight damage gain, if you hit with everything. Seeing as they are harder to hit with and keep on target, they'd end up doing the same or worse damage. The fact that lasers are also easily boated, makes their damage even higher compared to the ballistic that can't be easily boated. It's a pointless weapon in the current roles that weapons plays.

Edited by Noth, 18 December 2012 - 04:20 PM.


#39 General Taskeen

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 07:27 PM

View PostKuruptU4Fun, on 18 December 2012 - 02:48 PM, said:

X-Pulse lasers fire faster than normal lasers, accounting for your issue of them running hotter than regular lasers.


X-Pulse Lasers fire the same as Pulse Lasers in 'canon.' An X-Pulse is merely an 'upgrade' of a regular Pulse Laser, giving it the same range as a regular laser counter part for a helluva lot of heat. The heat part really isn't "my" issue, it would be your issue too or anyone else that tried to use that weapon if it were ever included. I say this due to the fact that PPC, ER PPC, ER LL, and LPL, are all around the seam heat range and are having those heat levels changed for 'balance.' We already know how pulse lasers behave in MWO, that's why these posts are for idea generation.

What people are talking about in this thread, and other topics, is changing a pulse laser so it behaves more like the ones described in lore and their source (tech manual) descriptions. A good example of that in action is early Mech Warrior game titles, like the Outro scene to MW 2: Mercs, showing how a Vulture is firing Pulse Lasers (fast firing, 1 'bolt' or pulse per shot in rapid succession). An MWO pulse laser fires 3 pulses, to achieve full damage (and yes is slightly different from a normal laser in the game, that is not in dispute)

A MW3 pulse laser can fire continuously (somewhat like an MG), to achieve full damage with every 'single' pulse, that fire in rapid succession, and can continue to fire as long as the player doesn't fully "discharge" or overcharge it. If a full discharge occurs, there is a flat 3.5 second cooldown for SPL, MPL, and LPL.

#40 MustrumRidcully

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 03:21 AM

View PostNoth, on 18 December 2012 - 03:37 PM, said:

Rapid fire ballistics are redundant to how lasers work in this game. In fact they'd be flat out worse with more downsides.

Assuming heat, weight, crit slots and range are the same, a weapon with a high rate of fire should have a bit higher DPS than a weapon with a slow rate of fire.

SAy, if there was a "Rapid Fire AC/20" (same weight, crits, range), that fires every 0.5 seconds, it should not deal 2.5 damage per shot (giving it the same DPS as the AC/20), but something like 2.75 or maybe even 3 (Meaning the Slow Fire AC/20 would have 5 DPS, the rapid fire would have 5.5 or 6 DPS). Slow rate of fire and high damage per shot means a good burst damage, and a faster firing weapon with a lower damage per shot will need more time to "catch up" to the slower weapon -and maintain a more consistent stream of fire, making it more difficult to evade enemy fire, and making it easier for the enemy to take defensive actions.





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