345 replies to this topic

[Dakkath]

Moving to the appropriate forum section.

[Stonefalcon]

Can this post go back to general forums please, where people will actually read it?

Edited by Stonefalcon, 20 December 2012 - 01:14 AM.

[JuiceKeeper]

hm personaly i liked that repair costs. It just added deph into game. But on the other hand now is more diversity ingame becouse people will use weapons and items which were not used before becouse rearming and repairs were going too high. So it would be nice to have them in some way back in game.

[EnigmaNL]

Yes it should return, and so should the old reward system!

[StandingCow]

Make R&R for community warfare matches only. But, yes, it needs to return in some form.

[Flapdrol]

Feels like something is missing yes, and you cant grind with a cheap mech, but at least it makes builds with massive ammo viable to people without premium, so I guess it's for the best.

Edited by Flapdrol, 20 December 2012 - 02:55 AM.

[no1337]

Ya, it is more realistic to refurbish your mech from 0 to 100%.

But does not depend on the team, so if you lose 10 matches in series it don't want to cost you so much, that you cannot affort the repais. If you lose and are dead, you will get at a min. so much c-bills to repair your mech.

The expensive upgrades are now priceless. FF, XL-Engine for example.

Maybe reduce the costs for repair to 30% (0 - to 100%) for all components u have not lose in battle (e.g. weapons in arms, legs..). Otherwise for rearmament 100%, because you have to rebuy this item - the opposide gets a improved salvage bonus. In the middle of all figts, you will get so much xp for enhanches salvage-bonus as you lose components

[Amunre81]

I'm very torn on this subject, but at the end I think that R&R should return. BUT keep the new ecconemy system in its general Idea.
That beeing partisipation = reward, no partisipation = no reward.
Why keep the new ecconemy? Because it discourages suicide farming. And this could turn worse(for suicidefarmes /better for ale the other players) if you have to repair your mech.

But why am I torn?
On the one hand I think that no R&R robbs the player of a gameexperiance. The decision, do I repair my Mech and what parts do I repair, so that my rig is cost effectiv.
On the other hand I see the problem that players drop into a game with a half repaired mech and getting killed after 2 shots, and by that deminishing the chance of the team to win and by that deminishing the fun for other players.
On the other hand again, you can't ask a player to repair a, lets say Atlas for 60+k c-bills if he makes 45k on a lost game. Or to rearm a LRM boat for 120+k c-bills if he makes again 45+k on a lost game. This will frustrate people and turn people away from the game.

The solution for the rearm problem could be to increase the damage reward, so that your c-bills you earn covers your ammunition cost. Of course diffrent ammunitions have different cost/dmg-ratios. From 6,5 c-Bills/dmg with an AC2 up to 216 c-Bills/dmg with ssrms. And then you have the problem that Laserbased weapons will give you dmg-rewadrs "for free". I can't say what dmg-Reward is "good" but from a gut feeling I would say arround 50-75 c-bills/dmg if R&R returns. This would account for the average ammuntioncost and the "free dmg" from laser weapons.


In short:

- Return R&R
- Increase c-bills/dmg to arround 50-75 c-bills/dmg to compensate for ammo cost
- Keep the new ecconemy (low basic c-bills / high "action-rewards") to discourage suicide farmers

Edited by Amunre81, 20 December 2012 - 03:16 AM.

[Waking One]

You are just awful, not the game's fault. I can make the same money as before no problem, so stop crying. I bet you were one of the LRM geniuses or snipers sitting far back and killstealing, with the excuse of "playing smart" and "taking care of the mech", while the rest were on the front lines taking hits for your cheap ***.

What it did was make people actually fight, stop with the hiding and running away all game, cap swapping to get more money, dropping unrepaired to get more money, exploting the ammo bug. etc. etc. etc. and makes sure the game is a lot less full of useless geniuses like you. Cheers.

Edited by Waking One, 20 December 2012 - 03:15 AM.

[Elder Thorn]

asking me it should come back. It just feels wrong. And free ammo needs to be gone, too.

[Waking One]

Elder Thorn, on 20 December 2012 - 03:18 AM, said:

asking me it should come back. It just feels wrong. And free ammo needs to be gone, too.

That would certainly stop anybody but premium players from using missiles. Go go effective P2W go!

[Deadoon]

Elder Thorn, on 20 December 2012 - 03:18 AM, said:

asking me it should come back. It just feels wrong. And free ammo needs to be gone, too.

Laser boats are less common due to removal of ammo restrictions, there are still a lot of laser users though due to they cannot be ignored as weapons, but there is less than the light show that was before, and lrm are coming back into style as well, ecm is becoming less common and lrm are making the game more dynamic, especially when they don't need to worry about those ammo costs.

I'm fine with free ammo, repairs I could deal with, but ammo was something I was of the opinion 100% free or 0% free, no middle ground that made you a detriment to your team because you couldn't afford it and didn't bring enough to not run out.

[Elder Thorn]

Waking One, on 20 December 2012 - 03:21 AM, said:

That would certainly stop anybody but premium players from using missiles. Go go effective P2W go!

i don't liek the concept of F2P anyway, so i am fine with paying for a subscription. And still it would not be pay2win, it would be pay2win if you could buy stuff for Real Life Money ONLY, that is much better than anything else in the game, but that is not the case. Even the Hero Mechs aren't any better than 'normal' ones.
Pay 2 Win would be something like Premium Ammunition, that you can buy for real money and that does double damage, but we don't have anything like it.
I know there are multiple views floating arround on what P2W is and what is not, i probaly don't agree with yours, and we won't change each others view on it ever, so lets just let it be like it is.

Deadoon, on 20 December 2012 - 03:23 AM, said:

Laser boats are less common due to removal of ammo restrictions, there are still a lot of laser users though due to they cannot be ignored as weapons, but there is less than the light show that was before, and lrm are coming back into style as well, ecm is becoming less common and lrm are making the game more dynamic, especially when they don't need to worry about those ammo costs.

I'm fine with free ammo, repairs I could deal with, but ammo was something I was of the opinion 100% free or 0% free, no middle ground that made you a detriment to your team because you couldn't afford it and didn't bring enough to not run out.

I didn't change my favourites, and i used a lot of SRMs and Ballistic Weapons, never had a problem with laserboats.
Oh yes, i am using Premium time, so what? I still had some builds that wheren't making that much money, those are making TONS of money right now because i can poop them Artemis SRMs out of my *** for as long as i want.

[MustrumRidcully]

I voted "No". I could see a return in the context of community warfare, where we may have to get contracts to get jobs, or where we need to manage our units.

Currently, all games are "canned" matches. There is no particular reason for me to want to get in that red square and capture it. And the combats are highly volatile - a high number of losses on both sides is to be expected. Under such a scenario I am not sure a mercenary unit would be normally interested in a contract, unless it had significant securities that would cover the risk. If Ia m a member of the military, the number of suicide missions would probably be kept low - in a real war, you don't want to fight in a fair fight, after all. So the canned "all-or-nothing" matches we have don't really fit a game where you try to manage resources.
At a minimum, there would need to be an official "retreat" option...

[Northstar100]

As an ATLAS player myself id like to see the numbers for R&R return and reflect the size of the mech even more. Today the medium mech who should be the standardissue of the lances hardly have any use. Its to slow to chase lights and it dies withing seconds of seeing an ATLAS (Atleast its weaponless after first alpha). If we make it so that the ATLAS is so expensive to loose that most players wont use it regularly it would become more of a sight when you do see it and if Mediums was deadcheap to run it would definitly see more use. If people have problem earning money and is forced to trials for it then make them play medium. The mech that have endless supplies of spareparts.

I think that if R&R is taken away you guys loose an important tool to direct the usage of mechs. You could even have models of same mech in it costing more or less to run. If one is commonly used like the gauscataphract then increase the cost of it somewhat. Spareparts being scarcer or whatever.
Dont loose this tool of yours. I love my ATLAS but it should come at a cost. Same for Artemis. Our corp of 16 guys loved it when playing with Artemis meant you lost all chances of making a profit. You broke even and that was fine. Its an expensive but effective weapon to deploy.

So as i see it there is only good things to come out of having R&R. Tweak it if the main group of players think its to harsh but dont take it away. Use it to make some models more common in the game. For now lights and mediums should be boosted and assaults should be less common in my opinion.

Thanks for a great game and good luck with youre endeavours.

Northstar

[Darwins Dog]

Your poll forgot one option: give it more than a day so that PGI can collect data, and we can see how it affects the community. This is the option that I'm voting for.

[Deadoon]

Elder Thorn, on 20 December 2012 - 03:32 AM, said:

i don't liek the concept of F2P anyway, so i am fine with paying for a subscription. And still it would not be pay2win, it would be pay2win if you could buy stuff for Real Life Money ONLY, that is much better than anything else in the game, but that is not the case. Even the Hero Mechs aren't any better than 'normal' ones.
Pay 2 Win would be something like Premium Ammunition, that you can buy for real money and that does double damage, but we don't have anything like it.
I know there are multiple views floating arround on what P2W is and what is not, i probaly don't agree with yours, and we won't change each others view on it ever, so lets just let it be like it is.




I didn't change my favourites, and i used a lot of SRMs and Ballistic Weapons, never had a problem with laserboats.
Oh yes, i am using Premium time, so what? I still had some builds that wheren't making that much money, those are making TONS of money right now because i can poop them Artemis SRMs out of my *** for as long as i want.

For the first part, What most people consider to be pay to win is mechanical restriction of certain play styles that paying real money can bypass.

Never said there was anything wrong with yout choices, i was merely stating that due to the single downside of using pure energy weapons(heat generation), they were, mechanics wise, better weapons compared to ballistics(limited shots, volatile ammo, costs extra money to use), and missiles(ammo dependent, expensive as hell ammo, and firing them has a lot of wasted shots, can be countered and made even less accurate exception being the streaks which have very little damage due to low number fired).

[Cest7]

I think it needs to come back. The current reward system doesn't allow for it however.

[Asmosis]

poll is bias pretty hard. repairs were removed because the system was horribly imbalanced between different builds, two mechs of similar firepower/performance, one costs 30k to repair one costs 160k to repair. balanced? hell no. And 3 of your options are to make it worse than previously.

Its a nice aspect of the game (which im sure will return) but they need to balance it properly before it makes a come back, just like what they are doing with collisions right now.

Edited by Asmosis, 20 December 2012 - 04:55 AM.

[Elder Thorn]

Asmosis, on 20 December 2012 - 04:52 AM, said:

Its a nice aspect of the game (which im sure will return) but they need to balance it properly before it makes a come back, just like what they are doing with collisions right now.

i like your attitude, but i disagree.
Collisions weren't taken out of the game because of not being balanced but because the implementation was one of the dirtiest spots of this game that they didn't anyone to see in open beta. It was balanced an all, it was just buggy as hell, mechs warping arround while getting up, i even TKed because a friendly mech warped right into my line of fire, and this guy was pissed because i TKed him while he tried to help me. I still remember his name and i still feel sorry.

RnR and reward got not reworked because of being unbalanced, at least not how i understand it, they got removed because of AFK farmers, but if you ask me, someone who doesn't do anything for a mech shouldn't even get 1 C-Bill + should be FORCED to repair his mech, thats how you can get rid of them.
Look at world of Tanks, people there don't care if they have to use their bot for 60+ hours if they want to buy something, same in Eve Online, as long as there is a minimal reward in botting, there will be people who use bots.

Edit: fixed a term, could have been missleading.

Edited by Elder Thorn, 20 December 2012 - 05:05 AM.