36 replies to this topic

[Volez]

Desrtfox, on 19 December 2012 - 02:53 PM, said:

The roleplaying part and simulation part are different. In the case of mwo, the simulator part is the game. The part where you pretend to be living in the inner sphere in the year 3049 is the roleplaying part (and optional)

You're still wrong.

Dr B00t, on 19 December 2012 - 02:55 PM, said:

just no...i too am baffled how you think role-playing is at all related to this topic...

In what way is simulation not the same as roleplaying? It might be an indirect form of roleplaying, but it is without a doubt roleplaying. Neurologically seen, is it physically impossible to want realism and simulation for anything else than roleplaying purposes.

[dF0X]

Simulation is about modeling. It's about having the most accurate model possible (up to a point). Usually a simulation simulates a vehicle of some type, but not always. The focus of a simulation game is the thing being simulated. In the case of mwo this is the mech.

A roleplaying game is about playing a role and how you play that role. Usually this means focusing on the actor or character, but almost always the focus is on behavior. Specifically the point of a roleplayer is to behave in context for that character.

Driving a race car or mech is not roleplaying. Pretending to be a drunk, down on his luck race car driver (or mech driver) with a heart of gold is roleplaying.

Edited by Desrtfox, 19 December 2012 - 03:06 PM.

[Volez]

Desrtfox, on 19 December 2012 - 03:05 PM, said:

Simulation is about modeling. It's about having the most accurate model possible (up to a point). Usually a simulation simulates a vehicle of some type, but not always. The focus of a simulation game is the thing being simulated. In the case of mwo this is the mech.

A roleplaying game is about playing a role and how you play that role. Usually this means focusing on the actor or character, but almost always the focus is on behavior. Specifically the point of a roleplayer is to behave in context for that character.

Driving a race car or mech is not roleplaying. Pretending to be a drunk, down on his luck race car driver (or mech driver) with a heart of gold is roleplaying.

Thats kinda true but what you are saying refers to the simulator itself and not the person using it. A simulator itself is different from roleplaying. But the USING OFF a simulator is effectively the same as roleplaying.

[dF0X]

Only if you roleplay while playing a simulator

Having said that, when people refer to roleplaying as a game type, they are usually referring to a game that automates some of the roleplaying experience though. Mwo has a tiny, and I mean tiny, bit of this in that there is some exp that relates to a few skills, but MWO is far from a roleplaying game.

You may roleplay while playing simulators (I sometimes do) but they are still two different things.

[Kauhava]

Volez, on 19 December 2012 - 02:24 PM, said:

What you describe is exactly what roleplaying is. You would prefer it if the game would be less balanced and PVP oriented and instead be more realistic/simulation. That pretty much is the definition of roleplaying.

Did you just imply that simulations=role playing? Well **** then, because flying planes in Sturmovik never felt like role playing and was always very much a hardcore competition thing.
People want simulation elements because is adds depth to gameplay.

[Dr B00t]

Semanticswarrior online i guess

[Mahws]

Sifright, on 19 December 2012 - 02:40 PM, said:

When will sitting my mech in water allow me to use the surrounding liquid as a giant heat sink?

Just for the record, that ones already in. If you submerge a body part with heatsinks in it in water it'll lower your heat level/speed up cool down. Only really noticeable if you have heatsinks in your legs with the current maps though.

[MoonUnitBeta]

When I think role-playing I think about D&D, because that's all I ever played.
GM: "Role for perception."
*rolls a D20, gets 4*
You failed the role, and you turn around a conter, instantly contronted by an Atlas. He gains a suprise attack bonus by seeing you before you went behind the building. And you take 3D6 damage. Half to your CT and half to your RT.
Rolling for .. etc.

To me, roleplaying would be enacting a character (the mech is not a character. The mech is the object to be simulated.) in a made-up world, abiding by certain rules, and moving forward through a story line that revolves around you as the main character or main party.

I'm struggling to see how MWO is roleplaying. I don't feel like I'm role-playing. I feel like i'm roleplaying when I play WoW though. or Diablo 3. A lot more things are based on rolling dice. My character has a background, interacts with NPC's, and so forth while moving forward through a linear story. Skyrim too.
Not once have I thought with those games "Man, this is definately a simulator"

Edited by MoonUnitBeta, 19 December 2012 - 03:53 PM.

[HighlandCoo]

Sooooo getting back on topic..

Can we agree it would be "fun" if the terrain affected the speed of your mech depending on engiine power and tonnage?

[Deathisgod]

MWO is not an RPG... as I hate all and any RPGs.

http://www.rpgfan.co.../1998/0007.html

[New Breed]

how about lights being submarines in water? , that should probably be fixed too

[SkyCake]

I made a post about this... it is desperately needed for sure... also, mechs should be able to bend over better so I can hit people below me... so annoying getting hit by a lower mech and I can't hit him

[Redmond Spiderhammer]

Volez, on 19 December 2012 - 02:24 PM, said:

What you describe is exactly what roleplaying is. You would prefer it if the game would be less balanced and PVP oriented and instead be more realistic/simulation. That pretty much is the definition of roleplaying.

as someone who love to RP .... accurate physics is absolutely not an RP thing... its a simulation thing... Balance itself is completely outside of the point and should not be at all impacted by the quality of the physics, provided all are affected by the same physics rules

[Redmond Spiderhammer]

MoonUnitBeta, on 19 December 2012 - 03:50 PM, said:

When I think role-playing I think about D&D, because that's all I ever played.
GM: "Role for perception."
*rolls a D20, gets 4*
You failed the role, and you turn around a conter, instantly contronted by an Atlas. He gains a suprise attack bonus by seeing you before you went behind the building. And you take 3D6 damage. Half to your CT and half to your RT.
Rolling for .. etc.

To me, roleplaying would be enacting a character (the mech is not a character. The mech is the object to be simulated.) in a made-up world, abiding by certain rules, and moving forward through a story line that revolves around you as the main character or main party.

I'm struggling to see how MWO is roleplaying. I don't feel like I'm role-playing. I feel like i'm roleplaying when I play WoW though. or Diablo 3. A lot more things are based on rolling dice. My character has a background, interacts with NPC's, and so forth while moving forward through a linear story. Skyrim too.
Not once have I thought with those games "Man, this is definately a simulator"

In video games Roleplaying is often equated with emmersion. Does the game make you feel like you are in the game world, does it inspire your imagination etc. In MWO actual RP would be close to impossible in game.

[Oy of MidWorld]

I'm pretty sure it has nothing to do with roleplaying, but i also would like more simulation elements. And i like roleplaying games. I don't like e-sports events. At all. Probably because i like role playing games.

[MoonUnitBeta]

HighlandCoo, on 19 December 2012 - 03:54 PM, said:

Sooooo getting back on topic..

Can we agree it would be "fun" if the terrain affected the speed of your mech depending on engiine power and tonnage?

Ghost Bear, on 19 December 2012 - 04:26 PM, said:

how about lights being submarines in water? , that should probably be fixed too

Agreed. I was also thinking that water should have some affect on speed, making it hazard for lights. the mech should maybe be broken up into parts, and how ever much of those parts are submerged then that's how much it affects your speed.

Parts must be fully submerged to gain the negative effect.
Example: (speeds as per 150kph flat-land speed)
Water Level over the
Feet: -5%: 142.5kph
Knees: -20%: 120kph
Hips: -40%: 90kph
Halfway between hips and head: -60%: 60kph
Head: 70% : 45kph

Max reduction should probably be only 70%. That means something running at 150kph, goes 45kph when fully submerged. These kinds of speeds are a death trap for a light. It would be like losing a leg.
Why I think this is good is that it doesn’t render them totally stuck in the water, but extremely vulnerable. I think 45kph is fast enough to still be able to get out before trouble arrives, but impairing enough to make water an extreme hazard for lights. The taller Mechs aren’t going to suffer from the high speed reduction since they won’t be as submerged as the lights, making water almost a safe haven for Assaults and Heavies. Not sure what kind of effect that could have, but it sounds interesting.
Also, bridges become a work of wonder (see River City) as a means of traversing from one side of the city to the other, and Jump Jets become needed to clear paths of water, instead of just being used for hill clearing. If I recall, the RVN-3L doesn't have jump jets. (but that has been my favorite mech since it was announced, the 4X was previously) So this part kind of makes me want to use a mech that comes with jump jets!

Edited by MoonUnitBeta, 20 December 2012 - 08:15 AM.

[Lootee]

That bugs me too.

Mechs should be slowed by rough terrain, too steep an elevation change, debris, running through trees or water and turning.

We already ignore the chance of falling down from water and running into buildings, but speed reduction from terrain should be a part of the game. Do you run out in the open at max speed or stick to the mountainside for cover but slower speed ?

In TT it costs you extra movement points to go through woods, rubble, water, or climb up hills. Turning also costs points, translated to MWO that would be a speed reduction.

Edited by PanchoTortilla, 20 December 2012 - 08:23 AM.