6 replies to this topic

[Chacatumbi]

Even with the nerf to disrupt mode on ECM, the guardian mode is still ridiculously good against any other mech. My raven can wreck any other non-ecm mech. What can they do against 140kph, 3med laser, 2 ssrm2? Strafe em all day long and laugh at them if I catch them solo. And while its fun to roflstomp these mechs... it is game breaking. If the true counter to ECM is more ECM, shouldn't all lights be able to equip it at least?

I'm a firm believer that combat should be a game of rock-paper-scissors. Assault>heavy>medium>light>assault... ECM breaks this in that its now ECM>all. Equal pilot skill, ECM commando or raven vs non-ECM commando or raven... you know who will win. Not even going to address the DDC b/c frankly I don't even know how to fix that. To take ECM now from the DDC would be silly, but DDC makes all other atlases obsolete in competitive play.

So, add ECM to all lights and we'll be seeing a lot more diversity which is always good. Oh and on a side note, having the counter to something being the same item is the most broken idea ever thought of. ECM should be a niche tech and should be able to be countered by an item that any mech can equip. That way, if the mech spends tonnage in defense against ECM expecting ECM in match, he is rewarded and if there isnt ECM, he wasted tonnage. *I'm looking at you BAP*. To make TAG or NARC the counter is silly, bc it takes 0 skill to have ECM running... hell, it doesn't even cost heat like it does in TT, while TAG and NARC takes skill to land, especially TAG. You cant make an OP tech easier to use than the counter... thats just silly.

Oh one last thing... saying direct fire weapons is counter is also a stupid argument. This is because direct fire weapons will take more skill than the SSRM spam that the ECM mech is able to freely do while oponent cant. Its much easier to hit a DDC with direct fire, not so much a raven/commando with speed tweak.

[Erik Jast]

Only time ECM should be available to all lights is when Netcoding is fixed. Right now, high ping light mech pilots have god mode if they have ECM.

[Khobai]

Why would JJ working properly be a balancing point for ECM? JJs have absolutely nothing to do with why Jenners were the best light mechs before ECM came out.

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I'm a firm believer that combat should be a game of rock-paper-scissors.

Im a firm believer that rock-paper-scissors is pretty much the worst game ever. Its not fun. The outcome is entirely luck-driven. Why would you want to play any game based on similar tenets? Hard counters are awful. Soft counters are way better for game balance since player skill can then overcome anything. Where in a RPS system if a player throws rock, no matter how skilled you are at scissors, you still cant beat the stupid rock. Thats why hard counters blow.

Edited by Khobai, 20 December 2012 - 07:16 AM.

[LordBraxton]

Why did they nerf counter? Seems like that just makes it even more important to have the MOST ecm on your team to win.....

[Zyllos]

My current suggestions on modifying ECM:


Honestly, the implementation of ECM seems ok. Just the numbers seem off.

- Make 1 Counter ECM counter all Disrupt ECM in range. I personally think making 1 Counter ECM work against all Disrupt ECM a big one because then it isn't always about fielding more ECMs, but instead using your Disrupt ECM to scout and not run into another equipped ECM mech to be countered and open for locking weaponry. This also doesn't make the Atlas D-DC team (4+ ECMs) just invincible against lock-on weapons because your team didn't decide to take 5+ other ECM mechs. This is really a way to give a reason for a team to take mechs other than ECM but to take at least 1 ECM mech for disruption.

- Make ECM reduce sensor range by 50%, not 75%. ECM is ment for scouting, not keeping certain mechs locked out of firing. Even at 400m sensor range, LRM users will only have 220m worth of workable distance to lock on with missiles while SSRMs will only have 90m.

- Let the BAP display some indication that an ECM equipped mech is within normal sensor range (according to Sarna saying BAP is jammed by ECM but indication is notified). Maybe give BAP users "pings" (kinda like how Thermal Mode shows the ping sweep, which seems like to me PGI is already testing out) so they can spot where ECM mechs are physically at. Once teams start to only take 1 or 2 ECMs, having BAP which gives pings to physical locations could be used to detect where ECM mechs are located at so you could chase the ECM mechs and destroy them with direct fire weapons. Then you might see teams start to take no ECM and work together with BAP users to counter ECM.

- Any mech equipped with ECM, running in Disrupt mode, should not be able to lockon with LRMs/SSRMs. This provides a pro/con for having equipped ECM.

- As many have said, fix the issues with hit detection. This will really help out in the department of having light mechs survive a disproportional amount of fire according to their weight. But this is obvious, just extremely important and I am sure PGI is working on.

[SI The Joker]

Zyllos, on 20 December 2012 - 07:25 AM, said:

My current suggestions on modifying ECM:


Honestly, the implementation of ECM seems ok. Just the numbers seem off.

- Make 1 Counter ECM counter all Disrupt ECM in range. I personally think making 1 Counter ECM work against all Disrupt ECM a big one because then it isn't always about fielding more ECMs, but instead using your Disrupt ECM to scout and not run into another equipped ECM mech to be countered and open for locking weaponry. This also doesn't make the Atlas D-DC team (4+ ECMs) just invincible against lock-on weapons because your team didn't decide to take 5+ other ECM mechs. This is really a way to give a reason for a team to take mechs other than ECM but to take at least 1 ECM mech for disruption.

- Make ECM reduce sensor range by 50%, not 75%. ECM is ment for scouting, not keeping certain mechs locked out of firing. Even at 400m sensor range, LRM users will only have 220m worth of workable distance to lock on with missiles while SSRMs will only have 90m.

These two I could get behind.

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- Any mech equipped with ECM, running in Disrupt mode, should not be able to lockon with LRMs/SSRMs. This provides a pro/con for having equipped ECM.

This one... maybe. I'd be interested to see how it would play out.

The rest of the ideas presented - I'll pass.


ECM should be light mechs only, all variants. 90m range, so if you want to cover your whole 8 man, you should really bring 1,2 or even 3 light mechs for coverage. TAG should work against ECM regardless of whether you're "in" the bubble and tagging the target or not.

[I Just Ate Your Grapes Bro]

Chacatumbi, on 20 December 2012 - 07:06 AM, said:

I'm a firm believer that combat should be a game of rock-paper-scissors. Assault>heavy>medium>light>assault...

Here is your problem, this is a common misconception about this game that is simply not true. It needs to be looked at more like this (not exactly, but it gives you an idea)

Assault: Tank- designed to focus aggro on to this mech (high firepower +low speed) while soaking damage (high armor)
Heavy - DPS/offtank - A good combo of firepower and armor make this class a force to be reckoned with while its higher speed lends it to being able to be where it needs to be on the battlefield to assist in the assault.
Medium - DPS/support - An overall lack of armor starting in this class mean that tanking is no longer an option, your tools are your mobility as well as your damage combined with a higher speed than the Heavy, making you more of an asset in multiple locations
Light - DPS/support/scout - Your NUMBER ONE factor here is speed, without that you're dead. In this mech you should NEVER stop moving. Your job? If you are a scout, locate enemies and try to remain hidden until support shows up. If you aren't, stick with your team and be the most annoying gnat anyone's ever seen. Keep putting rounds into enemies while on the move and most of the time you won't even be attacked if you are near allies.


Of course, this is just a basic layout, each class has mechs that can step outside of their weight class roles and of course the pilot can ALWAYS attempt to break the norm. Sorry, but this game is simply not designed Assault>light and so forth, if a light is better than you (there ARE some problems with some players atm with lights but barring that) it will kill you if you aren't with allies, unless you get extremely lucky. If you are the superior pilot, the 1 on 1 will go in your favor.

Also, ECM has roles in each of these situations, so it doesn't really make sense to limit it to light mechs only. They have stated there are plans to counter it a bit more in the future so really all you can do is wait. Many have stated they shouldn't release systems without their proper countermeasures to prevent people from screaming "OP" but our cries fall on def ears.

Edited by Ehrithane, 20 December 2012 - 07:54 AM.