36 replies to this topic

[Caviel]

Cotterpin, on 20 December 2012 - 03:31 PM, said:

1) How frustrating is it to have someone like me on your team?

Eh, pretty subjective here. Everyone was a n00b at one point.

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2) How can I benefit my team the most in a light mech?

Relaying what and where the enemy is, and what direction they are headed. Also helping your slower mechs deal with other lights, and base capture. Lights are all about mobility and the related benefits.

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3) Should I be running ahead and finding targets?

Yes, just remember you find them and assist with them, don't expect to solo Assault mechs until you get really good with a light. The main thing is don't stand and watch, and don't stay visible any longer than you have to in getting the job done.

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4) Will I get the hang of this or are some folks just not cut out for it?

Tough to say, some people aren't cut out for Lights but do great with slower mechs. You are the best person to answer this question. Sometimes you are just a mech build tweak or small piece of advice away from making a breakthrough in results. I'd say stick with it if you are having fun.

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All advice appreciated. Thanks to all those in game and out that have already helped and sorry if you've got stuck with me in a match.

Get plugged in, hop on a VoIP server and talk with people. Being a primarily assault pilot, I can give you a big piece of advice: A slow/stopped light is a dead one.

[Aegis Kleais]

One of the most important things to take home in order to be successful in this game is DO NOT GO IT ALONE.

Every once in a while I'm online and my crew isn't and I tell myself "OK, let's just PUG it til they get online". I would NOT be kidding you if I was to tell you that my rate at winning when PUGging is less than 5-7%.

When I'm on a 4 man team, that percent goes up to about 60-75%.

Just pugging in this game is the worst thing you can do to yourself, because it really doesn't matter how good you are solo, against 2-3+ mechs at a time, you're going down.

MWO punishes lone wolves, so get with a crew and roll as a team. You'll get complaints from puggers saying it's unfair to fight you cause you choose to use teamwork, but we've all gone through that whole debacle; it lead to the matchmaking phases, which to this date, many puggers still cry foul on.

[0101101]

You are thinking too much. Have fun, keep playing and you will get better.

[Deathz Jester]

The only serious advice I can offer is for the love of god dont hold still like every other pug.

holding still=death.

[Elizander]

Aegis Kleais, on 22 December 2012 - 11:37 AM, said:

One of the most important things to take home in order to be successful in this game is DO NOT GO IT ALONE.

Every once in a while I'm online and my crew isn't and I tell myself "OK, let's just PUG it til they get online". I would NOT be kidding you if I was to tell you that my rate at winning when PUGging is less than 5-7%.

When I'm on a 4 man team, that percent goes up to about 60-75%.

I'm not picking a fight here, but I'd like to toss in my experience as a 100% pugger since Open Beta. The last time I grouped was with some friends during CBT when grouping first came out. You can also see from my stats that I do not have a lot of games in. I'm mostly casual in my approach to MWO and I have an average ping of 300-400 ms.

I play based on how my team moves in pugs. I check the map often, sometimes I talk... but rarely. I don't give out plans or anything, but I do my best to support them, create distractions, and what not even at the cost of blowing up my own mech. When focused and I can't get away, I do the twist thing and try to stay alive as long as I can so that my team can fire at them longer and other such things and this usually ran me high repair bills during previous patches.

I'm not a perfect team player and I rambo once in awhile when I get bored, but overall you can easily get a good win record as a pug. I've played through the times when 8man teams could easily stomp pugs without sync drops and all my games since the beginning have been pugging.

You can see here that I still have a 38% win ratio on my main account (but I still need to work it up to 50%) and I actually have more wins than losses on my second account (that kinda surprised me, to be honest). So yes, I do not think that a premade 4 man group is required to enjoy this game in its current incarnation, based on my own personal experience.

I was actually pretty bad when I started and the issues with netcode and frame rates made me less than useless in many games at the start of Open Beta. I also didn't know about Lag Shield and how to shoot mechs that were affected by it and I would wonder why my damage done per match was always less than 100. You learn, you get better. A team is nice, but not required.

Edited by Elizander, 23 December 2012 - 01:09 AM.

[ElliottTarson]

Kiiyor, on 20 December 2012 - 04:00 PM, said:

You could always experiment with different play styles. If you like lights, maybe you could kit out a higher alpha med/heavy/assault and play a 'hit and hide' role; hang back around 300m behind the pack, wait for an enemy to engage, smash them, cower, rinse and repeat.

I used to play that, with moderate success. Teaches you patience, which is very important.

Side B of the mechanical vynil is a dps build - something with decent heat efficiency, but high dps weapons, like a couple of ac2's or 5s, or a swathe of medium lasers. Again, wait for the bad guys to engage, then pour on the hurt. If they aren't taking "OMG WTF JUST HIT ME" damage, they'll likely ignore you, to their detriment.

I have written too much. TL;DR - buy a hunchback 4sp.

First time i've ever logged in to like a post. <3. The 4SP has seen me through battles I wouldn't have believed i'd live through. Max armor, 3 MPL 2 SSRM2 or 2 SRM4. XL 250, 2-3 tons of ammo for missiles of choice and heatsinks to fill. Can core an atlas in 4 shots from behind, with pinpoint accuracy if you're close enough.

EDIT: You also usually have enough heatsinks that with pilot upgrades you can alpha 5-6 times before you overheat. Careful use means InfiniFire©™.

Edited by ElliottTarson, 23 December 2012 - 02:37 AM.

[The Basilisk]

From my perspective as heavy/assault pilot, heaving a reliable light mech guarding my back is a reassuring feeling. The role of a light mech isn't pinpointed to be a scout.
You can do hit and run's (the most difficult maneuver I think), play the spotter (TAG / counter ECM read the ECM and TAG/ECM guides, Beagel Probe is especially usefull in towns), do the scouthunter or play as wingman rearguard.
I have a light pilot in my unit who prefers to play as rearguard/ wingman/ interceptor. He does around 350/450 dmg/match and allways has a positive d/k and assist ratio so he is a valuable asset to any team.
If reaguard/ bodyguard is your playstyle thats fine. (may I hire you?)

[Road King]

Join us the Remnant Merc Corp. We have are own TS and an active board. I play a lot in the day and evening and like you was not doing well until I joined a corp and started using comms. It makes a big difference on how you see the game.

[I Just Ate Your Grapes Bro]

Tons of good info here, most light tactics covered so I'll just add my answers to your questions.

Cotterpin, on 20 December 2012 - 03:31 PM, said:

So my questions:
1) How frustrating is it to have someone like me on your team?
2) How can I benefit my team the most in a light mech?
3) Should I be running ahead and finding targets?
4) Will I get the hang of this or are some folks just not cut out for it?

1. Not at all for good players, everyone started somewhere and you're VERY eager to learn, you're the best type of newbie there is

2. That is going to depend on your playstyle, by choosing a light over an Assault you are already making the right move while learning the ropes (medium would be a great choice too) as you are putting 1 light on the enemies side as well, the majority of light mechs are NOT great pilots so if he is worse than you, advantage your team.

3. Nope, doesn't sound like you are ready for this presently, learn a bit more about spreading damage around your mech, using cover and getting out of danger with minimal damage, get a faster engine if scouting is your cup of tea, THEN you can get out there and start reporting enemy positions. Though honestly, if you aren't great at typing, this role is generally not utilized properly in PUGs. Always keep in mind, you can see enemies coming from the back lines just as easily as from behind their lines.

4. I would say yeah, some probably aren't cut out for it, but it doesn't sound like you fit in to this category. This game has a pretty steep learning curve and you are in the majority. I was terrible when I first started playing, took me ages to get a kill and even longer to go a round and stay alive, now I average killing over half a team before I die only running pugs.

Practice makes perfect.

Edited by Ehrithane, 23 December 2012 - 07:50 AM.

[Lugh]

Tenri, on 20 December 2012 - 03:46 PM, said:

1) I'd take a damage dealer over a dead mech anyday.
2) if you run ECM you can scout safer than a non-ecm light. Now if you mount the largest XL + ECM your even more safer at scouting + tagging + dealing damage. *cough cough Raven 3L cough cough*. If your not in a ECM mech mount MPL or ML and hunt down the ecm mechs that come to harass/scout the team.
If you just got a light mech chances are you won't be able to chase other light mechs so just sit back and concentrate your damage on what ever is being fired on to support the team.
3) See 2
4) Only people that are not cut out for this are people who rage quit. Stick to it upgrade your mech with Engine size/upgrades/ etc... and you'll do even better.

Some advice you might or might not know:
- lowering speed will help your turn radius very helpful for getting your torso lasers(if you have any) on target.
-JJ if you have them you can tap spacebar (defualt) and turn to get an even sharper turn radius


Edit: Stupid coloring code.
Edit2.

There are a ton of light pilots currently in game that 'aren't cut out for this' that are merely riding the terrible net code and the lack of the knockdown in game to allow themselves to look 'better' ..

They are not. The changes coming back to the code will have them on the butt in front of much larger mechs getting alpha'd to death. Along with the friend they ran into.

[Cotterpin]

Just a quick update. Looks like I might be getting somewhere. I can tell the difference (the HUGE difference) between teams working as a team and a random collection of gun bunnies. I now know it's not always my fault. I don't know how I'm learning but i have gotten a bit better. I tend to rank in the top half of my team and I finally killed a commando. A good pilot in one of those things is my worst nightmare.

To everyone who posted and has helped me in matches, thanks once again.

To any other noobs I can tell you that every bit of advice in here is spot on. If you're having fun, keep at it.

I'll see you all out there.

[Aym]

Kato had some good advice in his response, and I don't think anyone felt "strong" after 50 games, most people are celebrating every kill and assist at 50 games, so keep at it! Getting into groups with voice coms will continue to help you as someone with extensive light mech experience can run side-by-side with you in your light mech giving you advice and you can learn by observing them while you play.

[Locan Ravok]

Cotterpin, on 23 December 2012 - 06:29 PM, said:

Just a quick update. Looks like I might be getting somewhere. I can tell the difference (the HUGE difference) between teams working as a team and a random collection of gun bunnies. I now know it's not always my fault. I don't know how I'm learning but i have gotten a bit better. I tend to rank in the top half of my team and I finally killed a commando. A good pilot in one of those things is my worst nightmare.

To everyone who posted and has helped me in matches, thanks once again.

To any other noobs I can tell you that every bit of advice in here is spot on. If you're having fun, keep at it.

I'll see you all out there.

Don't worry, I only started getting better at 200 matches. This games have a lot o finesse involved that you will only learn by playing.

[Xiang]

Hey Cotterpin.

I play commandos and hunchbacks (waiting for the spider) and i am definately not a top player, but i go out to have fun (otherwise i wouldnt still be playing). My Kill/Death ratio is horrid, but i finish most games with 3-5 assists with a kill thrown in once in a blue moon. Getting more assists makes me feel like i am contributing more to the team than a single kill, so that is my goal when i play.

Most of the advice i could give has already been said, and from your last post, it looks like you are picking up what has been said here and getting better - Congrats!

All that being said, i would take a light mech companion in a heartbeat to either keep me company as a light, or keep the pesky enemy off me when im in my hunch. I am not on TS or any voice chat yet since i dont have a headset and my comp is in the living area (hoping for a headset for Christmas...LOL). Feel free to add me to your friends list and maybe we can hook up for some games in the future. Until then, remember to have fun playing the way you want to play.

Xiang

[Bagheera]

Cotterpin, on 20 December 2012 - 03:31 PM, said:

So my questions:
1) How frustrating is it to have someone like me on your team?

Not at all. I really only get frustrated at tk'ers/griefers or afk/suiciders, which in my book is griefing anyway. Thankfully the latest patch seemed to mitigate the afk/suicide problem almost entirely. Almost.

Cotterpin, on 20 December 2012 - 03:31 PM, said:

2) How can I benefit my team the most in a light mech?

Information. So many scouts run off and never say a word. Text/Voice/Smoke Signals/Whatever. Let your team know what you found, even if it is nothing.

Build lights for different purposes. Scout with ECM. Build a different one as an H/K scout hunter and/or light skirmisher. With that one always "stick and move" A prolonged engagement with more than 1 enemy is bad for you if you are caught alone. That stalker that wandered off by himself and isn't screaming for help, that's the one you take out.

At the start of the match, try to get another scout (if available) to pair up with you if possible. 2 lights on a solo slower mech is essentially a death sentence.

Cotterpin, on 20 December 2012 - 03:31 PM, said:

3) Should I be running ahead and finding targets?

Sometimes. Running ahead and dying will never help, but sometimes you can pull the best moves and still get beat. Don't sweat it. Take a moment to look around (hold down Q by default) and see what mechs are on your team. When you spectate, pay attention to what mechs are commonly running what loadouts. Combine that info. If you see 3 D-DCs on your team, good bet there are LRMS, go spot for them or stick around and keep them safe from lights. Team full of 8Q's and CTFs? Probably not many missles, find out what the enemy is up to and haul your bananas back to the team. They will need bodyguards from faster mechs.

Cotterpin, on 20 December 2012 - 03:31 PM, said:

4) Will I get the hang of this or are some folks just not cut out for it?

You will get the hang of it. There has no been a MW game for a very long time, and most games these days play very differently than MW. Lots of us have been with BT/MW for, well, what some people would consider "forever." The gameplay alone takes time to adjust to if you are used to a more mainstream FPS title, the strategy/tactics takes longer. Fortunately on these maps the game is fairly simplified, larger maps with 12v12 would start to get very interesting. Remember, this is based of a combat simulation table-top game. Think more like a chess match with big stompy robots fighting each other instead of "queen takes pawn."

If you die early, stick around and spectate the different players on your team, see what folks are doing.

Edited by Bagheera, 24 December 2012 - 01:32 PM.

[Koniving]

Cotterpin, on 20 December 2012 - 03:31 PM, said:

I've spent tons of hours in the forums and it helps. Lots of spectating to see what good pilots do. The MWO community is very supportive, sometimes it's hard to believe this is the internet. But after fifty or so matches I don't think I've improved much, if at all.
The game is great and I'm having fun, but I really worry that I'm making it worse for other players by not knowing/executing my role. I like the light mechs but I've tried heavier ones to try to understand their perspective and how I fit in. I think I'm supposed to run ahead and scout but when I do I pull focus and get trashed. I've had some success staying back and doing damage in support but I feel like that's not fair to my team.

Note: This post has a number of videos related to the topic, some are pretty long. They're not required to watch but they help demonstrate the points being made.

I seen a later post of yours after this that you're improving and learning that there's a huge difference between cohesive teams and random grunts picked off the street. This is actually the same difference between a trained force and a bunch of new recruits -- regardless of whether they have the same weapons, or if the trained force is severely under equipped; chances are the trained force will still win.

To iterate the point that , I refer you to these unreleased videos (as such unreleased because I forgot to have the game record my voice which I think would have made the video. I was the lance leader giving the orders that the other two were following.)





In them, we're using three Centurion trials with the easy to kill XL engines and terrible ammo counts from the previous patch. Out of 6 matches, we won 5, and the 1 we lost I was disconnected and according to 7 Nation Army, our team had two guys running around in a circle shooting the sky the ~entire~ match even as they were being shot up. (Bot programs for cbill farming?)

Continuing on, the default role for the light pilot is to scout. This is true. But this does not mean you need to be out in the open. Be creative. Find hidden spots. Be stealthy. Sneak around don't just run blindly.


Some scouting -- but I don't do it a lot, so yeah. I suck at it.


Team with scouts -- full 8 vs 8 with and against fully voice communicating teams. Scouts as seen by an LRM boat.

However, this is not the only role for a Light. Light 'Mechs can be useful in combat support roles. For example we have this video: (Note: For some crazy builds, just watch from beginning, for match start skip to 5:00 and for what I intend to show for this topic skip to 8:50 Despite my terrible condition I manage to provide tremendous combat support to the team while moving from spot to spot.)


And escort roles as in these videos:
(Two Commandos escorting a Streak Cat)


(Two AC-20 Raven 4X escorting a confused and uncooperative Gauss Cat)


Phew. That was a lot of videos. But I hope that does help and remember you don't need to check it all out in one sitting.

A good way to judge your contributions is to look at your experience. "100" is no contribution at all. Sometimes you can be up in the thousand range without a single kill and little damage.

[Geadron Kane]

Consider buying a mouse like the Razer Naga where you can map tons of keys to your mouse and play around with the settings. The Naga lets you adjust the speed/tracking for the X and Y axis-es independently. For myself I set the Y axis a bit faster than the X as it is easier to move the mouse left and right than forward/back. It never hurts to try different speeds for different games and the software allows this too. You can also try different surfaces or pads for the mouse if you find it jumping or stalling at times as this can make sniping tough.

Second re-map your keys so you can access everything you need to while under fire without taking your hand off the wsad keys or mouse.