10 replies to this topic

[DogmeatX]

I suppose this could apply to other builds as well but I'm specifically interested in Atlas builds, is there any scenario where Single Heatsinks would be better than Doubles? Any builds which work better with lots of SHS crammed in, instead of DHS?

Assumining minimum standard 300 engine (so 10 already in engine)

Edited by DogmeatX, 21 December 2012 - 11:18 PM.

[Doom Rider]

If you're going to run an Atlas, odds are you're going to be cramming all the really big weapons into it, which means that it's not weight that's the problem, it's crit slots. You can actualy get better efficiency with SHS because you can fit more of them in, and weight isn't a problem.

[DogmeatX]

Yeah that's pretty much what I was thinking, just curious if anyone had some examples which work better with SHS

I've a DDC build (which happens to be DHS) that I'm quite happy with but also have an RS, which I'm not quite happy with (based around 4 x LL) and wondering if it might be better to revert to SHS for that one..

Edited by DogmeatX, 21 December 2012 - 11:40 PM.

[Hex Pallett]

No. In no case on an Atlas SHS is better than DHS. By upgrading DHS itself you save yourself 10 tons, since there's no notion in the patch notes than engine DHS no longer works as 2.0 SHS.

[p00k]

Doom Rider, on 21 December 2012 - 11:25 PM, said:

If you're going to run an Atlas, odds are you're going to be cramming all the really big weapons into it, which means that it's not weight that's the problem, it's crit slots. You can actualy get better efficiency with SHS because you can fit more of them in, and weight isn't a problem.

depends on the build really. i use dhs on all my atlases, and get more than i could with shs. dhs will always be more tonnage efficient, but let's see when it becomes more crit efficient

let's take a 300 engine, since that's the most commonly seen for atlases

dhs: 10 built in DHS, 2 more in engine, for 22.8 shs equivalent
shs: 10 built in shs, 2 more in engine, for 12 shs equivalent, meaning you have to add 11 shs to approximate DHS. you're 11 tons and 11 crits worse off.

now let's start adding.
say you're running 10+2 engine, +6 dhs for 18 total DHS, 31.2 SHS equivalent, 18 extra crits after engine
to do the same with SHS, you're running 10+2 engine, +19 shs to approximate DHS. you're 13 tons and 1 crit worse off

add one more, and...
10+2 engine, +7 DHS for 19 total DHS, for 32.6 equivalent, 21 extra crits after engine
and with shs, 10+2 engine, +21SHS for 33 equivalent, 21 extra crits. you're the same on crits and slightly better off.

meaning, with a 300 rated engine, you only become more crit efficient when you break 33 total single heatsinks. and that's at the cost of weighing 14 more tons than with DHS

as you get bigger engines and can cram more heatsinks into the engine, the balance shifts further in DHS's favor, with the breakeven point for a 350 engine being ~37 heatsink equivalents before shs become more crit efficient, while weighing ~15 tons more.

now, endosteel complicates the picture a bit, because you can take those crits you save and use them to save tonnage in other ways, but in the end the only thing that gives better crit for tonnage savings is an xl engine, which comes with its own vulnerabilities, so it's only fair comparing xl to xl and std to std for both shs and dhs.

[Corvus Antaka]

I run my atlas with DHS, 12 and 14, its plenty and is still better than SHS.

[Oto Kanon]

If you put less weapons (3x energy) you can perhaps go up to 44 SHS and the closest DHS would get to that would be around 39.something so it's not all that far apart to be honest.

More often than not, you are better off going DHS.

[Ursh]

What you can do with DHS is run a smaller weapon loadout, and use the weight savings to put a bigger engine in. There really is a pretty noticeable difference in mobility between a 300 and 325, and a bigger difference between a 300 and 350, obviously.

[DerMaulwurf]

Oto Kanon, on 22 December 2012 - 12:01 AM, said:

If you put less weapons (3x energy) you can perhaps go up to 44 SHS and the closest DHS would get to that would be around 39.something so it's not all that far apart to be honest.

More often than not, you are better off going DHS.

44SHS? That's more tonnage than two Gauss Rifles. The Atlas has ballistic hardpoints. And using them for a Gauss Rifle or dual-LB10X is still preferable.

SHS cannot compete with using the tonnage for heat-efficient weapons.

[Elizander]

DerMaulwurf, on 22 December 2012 - 01:48 AM, said:

44SHS? That's more tonnage than two Gauss Rifles. The Atlas has ballistic hardpoints. And using them for a Gauss Rifle or dual-LB10X is still preferable.

SHS cannot compete with using the tonnage for heat-efficient weapons.

Yes, it's left for niche builds that are using less weapons than their total hard points allow. A Gauss Rifle is certainly worth more than 17-20 SHS.

Edited by Elizander, 22 December 2012 - 02:54 AM.

[Blackavar]

p00k, on 21 December 2012 - 11:53 PM, said:

dhs: 10 built in DHS, 2 more in engine, for 22.8 shs equivalent

Either I have some information wrong here, or your numbers are way off. Aren't DHS actually 1.4 x SHS in all cases - i.e. including the ones mounted in the engine?

Been a while since I checked that, but I thought the original implementation was that engine DHS counted as 2.0 and further ones were only 1.2, but they altered it so all were 1.4 after reconsidering... I'll try to find the actual notes.

Edit: Okay, so it looks like the change came in just as the Open Beta started, and thus I can't easily get to the original DHS setup.

Edited by Blackavar, 22 December 2012 - 05:42 AM.