17 replies to this topic

[Dibster]

What:

The vast majority of pug matches are decided by simply how much damage is dealt to another team. This guide is for those who want to become damage-dealing gods and be useful to the team in the best imaginable way: annihilating all opposition on the battlefield. If you prefer using weapons you like and are not so much about minmaxing your performance, you may disregard this guide.

Examples:




Builds used are:

Cicada 3M
340XL
3xML+Tag
14DHS

Atlas D-DC
300STD
2xLL, 2xSRM6, Gauss
19DHS


Heat:

The build of your mech is essential to dealing silly amounts of damage. The primary issue, especially with higher tonnage mechs, is heat. Every weapon choice you make should be assessed with heat efficiency, rather than pure damage, in mind. Many players like to shove their big mechs full of weapons, but can only fire a few salvos before having to tone down the damage and wait for their mech to cool down. This makes their initial DPS somewhat higher, but their DPS throughout the match ends up much lower. Sustainability over burst damage is the way to go.

Heatsinks are often the better choice for your critical slots than another weapon, or a weapon that does more damage but takes more crit slots. For example, I could build my Atlas AS7-D-DC with 2xLL, 3xSRM6 and an AC20. It would probably be the highest initial damage brawler build available and I ran it for a good while myself. However, I consistently do worse damage with that build, even at short range, compared to 2xLL, 2xSRM6 and a gauss simply because I can't fire constantly with all the weapons at my disposal. The latter allows me to do that for much longer periods with the extra heat sinks I can fit into it, as well as the gauss being much more efficient than the AC20, and the damage output over matches is significantly increased.

Weapon choices:

Always try to go for large lasers in energy slots. They're more heat efficient than medium lasers. If you're sporting a faster mech with loads of energy hardpoints, consider going all small lasers for maximum heat efficiency. Medium lasers are the worst choice and should only be used if there's no tonnage to fit large lasers and not enough hardpoints to boat small lasers. Try not to mix laser types, it makes efficient usage with other weapons difficult. More on that later.

ER lasers, pulse lasers and PPC's are very inefficient and should never be used, ever.

For missile slots, it's always better for heat efficiency to use fewer of the larger variants, like LRM20 and SRM6, than more of the smaller variants. You might have more initial missile DPS by boating LRM10 or SRM4 but the heat efficiency suffers and you probably can't sustain laser fire while shooting missiles.

Always go for a gauss in your ballistic slots if possible, autocannons are hugely inefficient in comparison.

In short, you should build your mech towards being able to fire all your weapons, all the time, without overheating.

Always take the shot:

I constantly see people playing the game not taking shots they could be taking. Maybe the enemy is out of optimal weapon range, maybe they figure they can't hit, maybe they don't want to waste ammo or heat on uncertain shots, or maybe they figure it's best to focus on maneuvering and avoiding damage. This is all wrong.

Always take the shot. If it's a moving target way out of optimal range, if you can potentially do any damage at all with the shot, take it. Always try to keep all your weapons on cooldown if you possibly can. This all translates to damage done and better performance. A heat-efficient build is essential to this. Also, bring enough ammo to be able to afford uncertain shots.

Never run ( unless light ):

If you end up getting zerged, don't bother trying to run on anything slower than a scout mech. Instead, use all the time you have to dump as much damage on the enemy as possible before you die. It's better for your team. Don't panic, but aggressively pursue any enemy you can get an easy shot at for as long as you live.

Maintain contact:

Any time spent not in contact with an enemy in range is time wasted. This is time when the enemy is able to fire on your allies, while you're not firing on them. Always try to maximize exposure time to keep consistently doing damage. Never choose a long trudge over the map to go capping if you can engage a skirmish going on right next to you. Always go for the closest/easiest targets instead of pursuing targets that would require you to close in and/or reposition and therefore spend time not doing damage.

Use easy weapons:

You should go for weapons and weapon groups that are easy to use with each other. For example, to get the maximum potential from AC2's you have to constantly ensure that you have the correct lead when firing them, which excludes you from firing lasers or SRM's at the same time. This is terribly inefficient. Use weapons that have longer cooldowns but do a lot of damage whenever you fire them.

For example, on my D-DC Atlas build outlined above, I can first fire lasers, then move the crosshair to appropriately lead the target for the gauss, fire that and then move the crosshair again to appropriately lead the target for SRM6's. I can do all this before the lasers recharge again. This way I can keep firing the three groups in succession while having plenty of time to adjust lead for each group without missing a single cooldown. If I had an AC2, or more weapons groups, it would be very hard to keep all weapons at cooldown while leading all of them appropriately and therefore efficiency would suffer.

The damage-dealing staple:

Large lasers are by far the most damaging weapon in the game right now in the long term. Their ease of use, range and relatively small size and decent heat efficiency makes them easily do the most damage out of any of my weapons throughout matches. My staple weapons for any larger than light build are firstly two large lasers. Then I see what else I could possibly fit there. The more large lasers, the merrier. If you can build a mech with four large lasers and a gauss, go for it. The other weapons are there to pad the damage without wrecking heat efficiency and only support the main weapons, which are the lasers. Considering cooldowns, it's always important to get the lasers off first and then focus on the other weapons, firing the lasers again at first chance.

In conclusion:

The TL;DR version is to always maintain contact to enemy, always keep all weapons on CD and build towards being able to fire constantly and accurately with all weapons rather than being able to do a lot of burst damage and then having to wait around for heat to fall off.

[Thomas Covenant]

Well written a lot of good information shared.

A lot of your rules I break, and benefit greatly. Any time you are faster, you can run away. If there are obstacles you can hide behind this improves. Sometimes its important to survive.

Great guide, good on you mate.

[RFMarine]

2 of my cats have 3 LL + 2 SSRM2 or 4 large lasers, plus enough heatsinks to fire more or less constantly. I find them really better than autocannon or PPC just for the easy aiming

that may change if PPC's get special secondary effects later

[dtgamemaster]

With regards to configuring your mech, sustainable DPS is important..no doubt. But there are two more important factors -> the chance to land hits/damage on the enemy targets and ammunition allocation.

Simply put, if you are putting a lot of tonnage into ballistic and missile weapons, you need to cater enough ammo to last the whole match. More often than not, it is a juggle between downsizing your weapons, more heatsinks or more ammo. It is a matter of balance to find the best fit for your playing style.

Pulse Weapons might not be tonnage efficient, but it does make a difference in its shorter duration to get more damage on a moving target or while moving.

Streaks as compared to normal SRMs also deserve a worthy mention as it allows you to hit targets almost 100%, especially fast moving lights/mediums, that might be the key between victory and defeat. There are some mechs that perform really well with streaks (eg. The infamous Raven 3-L cough cough).

Another tradeoff to consider for missiles is Artemis versus Non-Artemis SRMs. Artemis LRMs are almost a necessity, but for SRMs, it depends a lot on the chassis you are using, and the location of the hardpoint.

Edited by dtgamemaster, 17 December 2012 - 02:55 AM.

[Dibster]

The issue with pulse weapons isn't so much their tonnage efficiency, but rather their heat efficiency. In my opinion the main limiting factor to damage done over the course of a match is the heat limitation assuming the player does his best to maintain contact and keep all weapons on cooldown all the time. Once you hit that heat cap your damage may easily drop down to 50%. If you pick very heat efficient builds, you can continue firing a much larger percentage of your firepower once you reach the cap and thus generate more damage in prolonged combat.

I've yet to see an efficient 4xLL build outside the Atlas RS decked with single heatsinks. Boy, that thing is powerful though. If only it had ECM.

[Kmieciu]

You should name your guide "A guide to overkill". 1200 damage and 5 kills ? That`s over 240 damage per kill. It takes 91 point of damage to core a stock Atlas from behind. Why waste your time putting 240 damage into it?

High damage looks good on the scoreboard, but the most important thing is winning. It does not matter how much damage you did If you lost the match. Even the worst player on the winning team got more cash than you. And more damage means less salvage when you do win.

Damage and DPS is only important while killing clueless PUGs. In 8v8 the most important thing is to kill the enemy quickly and efficiently. High burst damage focused on a single enemy component is the way to go for my team. 8vs0 in 5 minutes.

On a side note: I prefer 3xSRM4 over 2xSRM6 => SRM4 have much tighter spread.

Edited by Kmieciu, 17 December 2012 - 03:54 AM.

[Wrenchfarm]

I disagree with some aspects of this guide, but I admire the sheer devotion to LLAS. You and me both brother, Pew-Pew forever.

[Budor]

The problem with LL on slow moving mechs is that while its great dmg over time you will run into situations where your time will run out quickly against a bursty enemy...

Gauss on a Atlas is high risk: In 9/10 times you will lose RT>RA>dmg to core (if you dont fit case) against any competent player first.

Kmieciu, on 17 December 2012 - 03:54 AM, said:

...High damage looks good on the scoreboard, but the most important thing is winning. It does not matter how much damage you did If you lost the match. Even the worst player on the winning team got more cash than you. And more damage means less salvage when you do win...


On a side note: I prefer 3xSRM4 over 2xSRM6 => SRM4 have much tighter spread.

True for pugging to imho.

SRM4 also have a lower cd

Edited by Budor, 17 December 2012 - 07:57 AM.

[MagicHamsta]

Decided by damage done?
Me must be doing something wrong.
>:

Edited by MagicHamsta, 17 December 2012 - 05:37 PM.

[Void Angel]

Well, he said most often, not always. Overall, this is an excellent guide for players who want to learn how to handle heavy combat and be effective. Many of the ways I sometimes ignore his advice are simply judgement calls which require experience with the game - and once you get enough experience, you don't strictly need a guide.

[steelblueskies]

holy furballs hamsta! 1795? that sets a new bar for proximity to 2k done. were the enemy all atlases with no armor left at the end or what?

[MagicHamsta]

steelblueskies, on 17 December 2012 - 08:18 PM, said:

holy furballs hamsta! 1795? that sets a new bar for proximity to 2k done. were the enemy all atlases with no armor left at the end or what?

Enemy team was very heavy:
3 Brawler Atlases
1 Awesome
3 Cataphracts
1 Raven

Me own team was:
1) Me (atlas)
2/3) Two other atlases who managed to die after doing ~50 damage...
4) Me know there was a trial awesome (distinctly remember the ERPPCs & seeing him overheat)
5/6) And me am fairly certain that there was a trial cataphract & me know for certain there was a custom cataphract because it was the 2nd to last one to die. (Me was the last to die.)
7) It might have been a catapult or something but it also died quickly...
8) No clue what the light was, but it died quickly...just ran off and was obliterated.


The survivors on the enemy team at the end was one cataphract nearly cored & the raven with red legs.

Edited by MagicHamsta, 17 December 2012 - 09:03 PM.

[Kmieciu]

My playstyle is the total opposite: I use fast, precise strikes to dispatch enemies. My average is 100 damage done per kill.

[Elizander]

The additional benefit of constant damage is the pressure on the enemy. If he's always getting hit he will know he is in danger and he won't be relaxing and aiming casually for his next shot. He might feel behind in the fight and miss shots in desperation because he feels he has to keep shooting as much as the other guy and it often leads to overheating.

Even when he's almost overheated, he might be tempted to shoot again because he always has laserlights and gauss shells in his face.

I don't always play this way, but it is a valid playstyle along with high Alpha and others.

[SC1P1O]

a good guide, however, Targeting body parts is the best, why destroy an entire hunchback, when targeting his shoulder makes him useless? Is that a dual gauss? probably has an xl engine. Doing a lot of damage is not bad but being smart and targeting certain areas of a mech is advantageous to quickly taking out an enemy team and their firepower.

[Snib]

High damage = low salvage payout. You don't really want that if you can help it.

It takes 33 damage to headshot a mech, and then all its undamaged components and armor are getting credited to your team as salvage. Say yes to salvaging undamaged XL engines!

Edited by Snib, 23 December 2012 - 02:24 AM.

[Elizander]

SC1P1O, on 22 December 2012 - 09:55 AM, said:

a good guide, however, Targeting body parts is the best, why destroy an entire hunchback, when targeting his shoulder makes him useless? Is that a dual gauss? probably has an xl engine. Doing a lot of damage is not bad but being smart and targeting certain areas of a mech is advantageous to quickly taking out an enemy team and their firepower.

The point is there are many players who hesitate too much to shoot and die without dealing enough damage to matter. If targetting precisely is an issue for some, they are better of spamming damage and hurting anything they can. Aiming pinpoint is still better but it is situational if you can pull it off. Rather than delay dealing damage for a significant time, many are better off just shooting and shooting a lot.

Even if you do not effectively kill something, if you spam damage all over the place, someone will take advantage of the holes you've punched in the enemy mech.

Some players often shut down with their Alpha strike builds and do not get shots off to matter and others hesitate to shoot because of heat. All this guide is saying is that you lose the opportunity to deal damage if you restrict yourself with bad heat efficiency. Taking less weapons or cooler weapons over that 50-60 damage Alpha Strike overheat build will, in the long run (if you know how to stay alive) allow you to contribute more to your team.

It's not the only way to play and it may not be the best way to play, but for a lot of people, they are better off with this play style instead of shutting down all over the place.

Summary is simple. Get 1-2 Large Lasers, grab a Gauss Rifle if you can, maybe an SRM6, Small Lasers if you can afford the heat and DHS with the rest. With 2 LL and Gauss alone you can easily rack up 400-500 damage in a fight without worry about heat and those 2 weapons will allow you to deal damage at almost all distances, increasing your battlefield presence as opposed to being just a short-ranged brawler limited to 270m weapons.

2 LL + Gauss is already 33 damage and enough to kill with a headshot.

Edited by Elizander, 22 December 2012 - 11:02 AM.

[Void Angel]

You should always be targetting specific locations, focus firing, paying attention to where the team is, etc. But I see a lot of new players kind of sitting back waiting for that perfect shot, or building their mechs without the ability to sustain active combat. This guide isn't an advanced tactical primer, but it does provide an excellent place for new players to start - and provides them with a tactic where, even if not personally successful, they contribute to the team. Better to die firing than stumble around in confusion waiting for a "good" shot when they really needed to be engaging.