56 replies to this topic

[tuokaerf]

After playing heavily with the Stalker 5M and 5S since the last patch, it has some serious weaknesses. It's not a bad Mech at all, lots of firepower, but if anything gets on your side, you're in big trouble. All Mechs have trade offs and weaknesses.

[Cerlin]

Cant the Awesomes get bigger engines? which means they are faster and more maneuverable as well. This makes me say the awesome is better because it can dance around the stalker (though maybe only the 9m can do this.)

[Zero Neutral]

Awesomes are small and fast assault mechs best suited for a really strong flanking maneuver. It can lead a flank attack with other fast mechs.

[Sennin]

paladin yst, on 23 December 2012 - 08:17 AM, said:

Explained everything, u can basically close this thread now lol.

2 pilots of equal skill, both brawling in a stalker and awesome, stalker has 0 chance. Majority of the hits will be on the stalker side/center torso, minority on the arm. Where as the awesome arm will block a lot more and the arms man, arms is the single most important thing in brawling. You cant arm shield stalker the way u use awesome. Not to mention stalker legs are so much easier to break than awesome ones

What alot of people havent realized yet is the STK-3F negates "the AWS-9M has mobility" argument. It's torso twist with 2x 'Mech Tree perks let the 3F fully torso twist like most other assault 'Mechs so coming at it from anything but the rear is a bad idea. It is the only variant of the Stalker that is not fully restricted. I run 4xSRM-6's, 6xML's, 300 Standard Engine, 22xDHS, and 1/2 ton short of max armor. There is nothing that stands up to it at close range. Anything 80 Tons or less you can fold like a beer can in 1 or 2 alpha strikes if you know where to aim.

As far as the 5S or 5M are concerned they turn like a ****, torso twist like a brick, and move like a snail. If you want to make an LRM boat they are great but if you want to make a short range brawler, not so much. These you will find losing more to the Awesome and it's mobility+firepower. This is of course my opinion via personal experiance and I am sure someone will disagree.

(Edit: The word T.U.R.D. is censored...Really?)

Edited by Sennin, 23 December 2012 - 09:04 AM.

[Trauglodyte]

Nice write up, Sennin. Too bad that one variant has better torso twists then the others. Would figure that it would be standard across all variants.

[Soy]

Sennin, on 23 December 2012 - 09:01 AM, said:

What alot of people havent realized yet is the STK-3F negates "the AWS-9M has mobility" argument. It's torso twist with 2x 'Mech Tree perks let the 3F fully torso twist like most other assault 'Mechs so coming at it from anything but the rear is a bad idea. It is the only variant of the Stalker that is not fully restricted. I run 4xSRM-6's, 6xML's, 300 Standard Engine, 22xDHS, and 1/2 ton short of max armor. There is nothing that stands up to it at close range. Anything 80 Tons or less you can fold like a beer can in 1 or 2 alpha strikes if you know where to aim.

As far as the 5S or 5M are concerned they turn like a ****, torso twist like a brick, and move like a snail. If you want to make an LRM boat they are great but if you want to make a short range brawler, not so much. These you will find losing more to the Awesome and it's mobility+firepower. This is of course my opinion via personal experiance and I am sure someone will disagree.

(Edit: The word T.U.R.D. is censored...Really?)

Hey that's a cool theory and all.

Except the part where you said it 'negates 9M's mobility'. How would you 'negate their mobility' when you're limited to short/medium engagements given your layout and 9M can gain range in a matter of seconds...

Edited by Soy, 23 December 2012 - 09:14 AM.

[The Amazing Atomic Spaniel]

Yeah - the 3F is a bit odd. Not sure if the extra torso twist is a mistake to be corrected or whether it was really meant to be like that.

I drove Stalkers for long enough get elite on the 5M, but I've actually gone back to Awsomes because the Stalker just feels so claustrophobically slow and clumsy in comparison. I'll probably return and put more time in on the 3F to get it to elite because it's torso twist makes it much more effective.

[paladin yst]

Highlander any1?

[Mr 144]

Trauglodyte, on 23 December 2012 - 07:54 AM, said:

I'm going to sound like a broken record again but, hey, its the interwebs so who cares?

For everyone bagging on the Awesome, you have to look at the fact that the Atlas and Stalker all top out at 58 kph while the 9M caps at 78 kph (the other Awesomes also top out at 58 kph). If you're wanting to brawl with heavy alphas, the Awesome is going to fail in comparison to the Stalker and Atlas due to lack of "heavy damage" weapon points. Three PPCs is nice but its a ton of heat and adding in missiles, namely SRMs, just makes it worse. Plus, at 80 tons, you're losing out on armor versus the Stalker and Atlas.

BUT, what is really holding the Awesome, namely the 9M back, is the fact that we're playing in a sandbox. Yes, this is broken record time. The distance from bottom edge of each map to the center point is about 1000m. At 58 kph, it would take you 62 seconds to go from edge to center. But, with the range of weapons and the added "double range" provided, it would only take you 30s to get into max Md Laser range. Many people in assault mechs are boating Lrg Lasers (450 range, 900 extended range) which means that if your target is at the center point of the map, it would only take you 7s to get into range of where you're doing damage. SEVEN SECONDS!!! Because of that, the speed benefit of the 9M is made moot which means that you're now driving a mech with lighter armor, lighter weapon points, no benefit of ECM (D-DC), etc. So, why bother with the Awesome when its only benefit is trashed?

The only way that the Awesome will be viable is if they start making maps 3-4x the current size of what we have. Then, you could emply actual scouting, fast strike groups, etc thereby employing the use of all valid combat tactics other than "lets go center and rumble".

Nice write-up, and you are correct in everything said. Your point however, is only a portion of the 9M. Consider your example of 2 opposing ranged Laser Boats...one a 9M..the other, any other assault. Getting to minimum fire distance is only a very small consideration unless LRM boating. When direct-fire at range, the same rules apply as in brawling...face-to-face is bad. Once a 9M locates an opposing laser boat, the enemy's range of repositioning is very small and easily guessed. The enemy however, has no idea where the 9M will pop up again. The speed and mobility gives it the unparrelled ability to 'bob-and-weave' at range. This is a giant asset in a fire-support role and competes more with Catas (both kinds) in mobility, while having the increased tonnage of an assault.

I still think even the 9M is more for flavor than anything, but at least it's competetive in anything less than 8-man. I've run my 9M in 8-man's...but only when messing around...If I was serious, I'd bring one of my phracts instead. Pugging however, it remains one of my favorites, even with the 'give the opposing team a D-DC' principle...it's just plain fun to run.

Mr 144

[Soy]

Yes.

[TexAce]

I beg to differ GREATLY.

I have an AWS-8R and a Stalker 5F

I'm using the AWS with 4x SRM6, 2LL & 1ML, AMS, fully armored and still half a ton free with heat efficiency of 1,14.

I tried the same build using a Stalker and it was not possible, heat efficiency was 1.05. Yes it has more armor than the AWS, while having the same speed.

BUT the AWS is much more agile cause of torso twist and arms.

I'm doing at least 2 kills per match, going up to 5 with the Awesome and can't get past 2 kills with the stalker. It feels too fragile and the torso twist is so narrow that you literally have to shoot into the direction you walk, which means people alsways have LOS to your CT and you are dead bait.

The AWS is much more fun with the same layout than the stalker and also much more efficient.

Edited by TexAss, 23 December 2012 - 09:45 AM.

[Tennex]

only as much as the Awesome outclasses the Catapault

you know, cuz tonnage difference. lol.


not sure how you expect mechs with tonnage differences to be balanced with eachother.

Edited by Tennex, 23 December 2012 - 09:47 AM.

[Sug]

Awesome's a piece of junk. It might have a role if they can fix ppc's so I don't immediately laugh when I see an enemy mech using them.

[Mr 144]

Tennex, on 23 December 2012 - 09:46 AM, said:

only as much as the Awesome outclasses the Catapault

you know, cuz tonnage difference. lol.


not sure how you expect mechs with tonnage differences to be balanced with eachother.

Not quite sure of your point here. I think for every AWS build, including the 9M, there is Cata(something) that easily competes with it, if not on loadout alone, then in hitboxes and mobility. Engine restrictions are the limiting factor here.

Balance with tonnage differences? This HAS to be considered as, the current matchmaker does not take this into account. If PGI implements total tonnage drop matchmaking in the future, then the comparisons become much more difficult, as 20 tons saved could be worth more than upgrading to an atlas.

Mr 144

[Dakkath]

I love the 9M. I love the idea of being a mobile medium to long range fire support mech. The Awesome is a good compromise for me between speed and firepower. However, one thing I can't seem to shake, is the feeling that the 9M or any other Awesome variant for that matter takes massive damage to the CT via LRM's before any other area decides to take damage. Basically it feels like the Awesome hitbox for the CT's are a little large. Maybe its just me though. Either way, I love the mech.

[Soy]

I eat LRMs on shoulders much more than CT, but I'm always swinging my torso around like King Kong in a frenzy, so whatev.

[Mr 144]

Dakkath, on 23 December 2012 - 10:02 AM, said:

I love the 9M. I love the idea of being a mobile medium to long range fire support mech. The Awesome is a good compromise for me between speed and firepower. However, one thing I can't seem to shake, is the feeling that the 9M or any other Awesome variant for that matter takes massive damage to the CT via LRM's before any other area decides to take damage. Basically it feels like the Awesome hitbox for the CT's are a little large. Maybe its just me though. Either way, I love the mech.

Yeah, but considering the 32 point difference in armor between center and sides, I'd rather that than enlarging the sides to reduce the center. The Ginormous CT at least makes an XL somewhat of a reasonable choice. I've been experimenting with freelook on the 9M to take advantage of the 'slim' side view while keeping arms (and streaks) on target. LL+SRM6+2xSSRM2 while maintaining the side profile with quick arm-shielding is decent. A Very unique fighting style to get used to though.

Mr 144

[Sennin]

Soy, on 23 December 2012 - 09:13 AM, said:

Hey that's a cool theory and all.

Except the part where you said it 'negates 9M's mobility'. How would you 'negate their mobility' when you're limited to short/medium engagements given your layout and 9M can gain range in a matter of seconds...

I was responding to the previous poster about his statement of brawling in an Awesome vs Stalker. He stated that if pilots of equal skill were brawling the Stalker would have no chance and that mobility would be one of the key factors. The 3F negates alot of the Awesomes ability to get around the Stalker or catch it at awkward angles and the addition of a 300 Engine furthers this by giving the Stalker a competitive speed boost while maintaining superior firepower. The Stalker is not without it's glaring flaws but the 3F goes a long way to doing away with the major fault of lacking a good degree of torso twist and smart players will capitalize on this.

[LordBraxton]

The 9-M was always the only good awesome.

Now the 9-M is the only Viable awesome, as the Stalker can do everything better than the other variants.

I only use my stalker as an up close brawler as well, its side torsos are huge targets but they work like shields.

Edited by LordBraxton, 23 December 2012 - 10:20 AM.

[TexAce]

Im challanging any stalker to a brawl with my AWS-8R. You can't win this, since I never lost it.