50 replies to this topic

[Cerlin]

Hey all,

I have been playing a lot of matches in the last week since I came back from my closed beta break and the biggest difference was the complete lack of knockdowns. Before lights had to actually worry about positioning and now they can just clip/slide through other models with minimal consequences. Edit: It has been noted that there is a "wall effect" when you run into another mech, but I also find that you tend to "Slide" off them pretty quickly, especially in a light.

In the closed beta I loved piloting my lights but they also were counter-able in the most extreme ways. You and your friend could knock each other down. The other teams scout could hit you. That heavy you were trying to kill could get into your circle range. A whole manner of counters have been deleted basically.

What do you all think? Should knockdowns be back?

I also feel that if knockdowns worked, ECM would be a LOT less of an issue. It may need a bit of balance but if your team jenner could suicide knock them down It would make it alot easier.

Edited by Cerlin, 12 December 2012 - 10:24 AM.

[Mancu]

They are working on knockdown code now. When they have it finished they are supposed to reintroduce knockdowns to the game.

[Wizard Steve]

I don't care how broken it was; it was better than nothing.

[darkthought]

I generally pilot a Commando, and yes, I wish knockdowns were back in. It made piloting more important, and I can't count the number of times my job was to face tackle another light so the rest of my drop could vaporize it.

[Cerlin]

Mancu, on 12 December 2012 - 10:09 AM, said:

They are working on knockdown code now. When they have it finished they are supposed to reintroduce knockdowns to the game.

Very nice. I had a feeling it would be back (why delete a feature you already did the work on?) But I just wanted to poll the community as a whole and see how everyone is feeling about it. Even light pilots I know mention it SHOULD be in even if it will hurt their play.

Personally I still pilot like its the closed beta and try so hard to NOT ram other mechs.

[Fais]

Wizard Steve, on 12 December 2012 - 10:12 AM, said:

I don't care how broken it was; it was better than nothing.

QFT, atleast they stopped. Once they got back on their feet and started to accelerate (actually showing their true position) you could usually get one alpha on them.

[Mancu]

Bringing back knockdowns (when they finally do) will be a major step towards more balanced play.

[Mr GreenSuit]

I hope they do not put knockdowns back in, at least not as easy as it was to do in closed beta. If anything touched your mech even slightly your idiotic thing would flop over and sometimes it was a gamble if you fell over or the other guy or both. I think the assult mech pilots really, REALLY want knockdowns back in due to light mechs being their only real weakness. Do we really need to give atlas pilots more advantages? I think there needs to be a crash system in place but more of a throttle zero effect with damage.
Also, even currently you cannot clip past another mech by running into them. Originial post is wrong about this, only when both mechs were moving into each other did this happen. I know this because on the city map there are places where the buildings are so tight that another mech cannot pass and on this map I had a raven stright into my stationary awesome, could not pass and was destroyed.

[Roland]

I actually used to drive light mechs a lot MORE when knockdowns were in, because doing so actually took some modicum of skill.

When knock downs were removed, light mechs became far stronger... to the extent that they were far less satisfying for me to drive. Now I get more enjoyment out of blowing the legs off of the hordes of terrible light mech pilots.

I eagerly await the reintroduction of knock downs, because it'll separate the men from the boys again... Garbage pilots won't be able to just slam the throttle to max, run around at 150 kph, and hope for the best. They'll run into teammates, fall over, and get shot on the ground.

[Moonsavage]

Terrain knockdowns too please - if I back into a wall to stop a jenner taking me roughly from behind, I don't expect said Jenner to run along that 45° wall at 130kph

[Cerlin]

Mr GreenSuit, on 12 December 2012 - 10:19 AM, said:

I hope they do not put knockdowns back in, at least not as easy as it was to do in closed beta. If anything touched your mech even slightly your idiotic thing would flop over and sometimes it was a gamble if you fell over or the other guy or both. I think the assult mech pilots really, REALLY want knockdowns back in due to light mechs being their only real weakness. Do we really need to give atlas pilots more advantages? I think there needs to be a crash system in place but more of a throttle zero effect with damage.
Also, even currently you cannot clip past another mech by running into them. Originial post is wrong about this, only when both mechs were moving into each other did this happen. I know this because on the city map there are places where the buildings are so tight that another mech cannot pass and on this map I had a raven stright into my stationary awesome, could not pass and was destroyed.

In this you are correct sir, it is not 100% run through and you do need to work around them. I have adjusted the main post to reflect your observation.

[DaZur]

Kind'a a silly question...

As other have stated (And Devs have stated as well)... Knockdown was yanked so it could be re-worked properly not to mention that fact that the broken implementation was contributing to some aspect of the poor net-performance.

THat said, I agree that lights are benefiting from the exclusion right now but I for one would rather see it fixed properly than implemented in some half-baked fashion to placate the issue the exclusion creates...

[Draxtier]

Collisions, as they worked in the last iteration we saw, were quite crude and quite simple. They didn't take a number of factors in to account, which led to knockdowns working in an unrealistic and annoying way. My guess is that they want to implement a more robust and logical knockdown system, which would include physics to support things like (D)eath (F)rom (A)bove attacks (which get mentioned a lot in the developer plans for future modules and piloting efficiencies), but actually adding that to the game seems like it will involve a lot of physics intensive coding... and I imagine the resources that would take are resources PGI has allocated to other things at the moment.

TL;DR - My guess is, 'better knockdowns and other physics like DFA' are something PGI want to do, and will do, but a lot of other things take priority right now.

[Crooked]

I hate how a lite mech can run around my atlas all day but i cant step on him anymore then alpha strike them. Really made it harder on assault mechs when they took it out.

[Kyone Akashi]

I voted "no" because Knockdowns in the OLD version began to become seriously unfun shortly before they were patched out. Instead of heavier 'Mechs being able to tackle smaller ones (as they should be able to!), it became Lights ramming other Lights to basically stunlock them for easy destruction by the hands of their teammates.

Imagine you are rushing across the battlefield to hunt down a Raven, then - out of the blind spot somewhere from the right - comes another Jenner and, even without bothering to discharge his weapons, just runs into you. Now you topple, and as the camera zooms out you, the pilot, can basically lean back and chill out, because you just lost the game. Within seconds your light armor is stripped away by barrages of buffed-damage LRMs and other assorted weaponry and you go boom just as your crippled machine manages to regain its footing. Exciting, is it not?

I've even seen duos of two Jenners, where one would run their target down so that the other could shoot it. Rinse, repeat. You would have no chance to actually have a proper duel even against a numerically superior opponent, where you might still manage to take at least one with you.

Look at this video and tell me if you really think this was a fun game for the other team:



Do I want this back in MWO? Hell no.

Tackling in general? Hell yes - because it is realistic, and I deem it to be part of the balance between the different types of BattleMechs. But only if it can be done by heavier weight classes, i.e. to tackle a Light you need to pilot at least a Medium, to tackle a Medium you need to pilot at least a Heavy, and to pilot a Heavy you need to pilot an Assault.

Perhaps there could be a way to just "unbalance" 'Mechs of equal weight classes that collide, resulting in both of them tumbling a few dozen meters forward before the pilot will be able to regain his or her footing. With any luck, there won't be a wall or an Atlas in the way.

In general, I do believe the whole debate could use a little less "tunnel vision" from the players.

Edited by Kyone Akashi, 13 December 2012 - 03:24 AM.

[Relic1701]

Unfortunately, it's an irrelevant poll. Collisions (and more specifically, knockdowns) were removed temporarily (however long that is remains to be seen) as both collision detection and damage was broken.

I'm sure those of us that remember the fun we had in closed beta with the Dragon bowling ball, and none of us want a repaet of that! Suffice it to say...collisions will return, as will proper damage in respect to speed, weight & (hopefully) object hit.

[Gregore]

knockdown needs to come back, but they need to tone it down a bit.

It should be an uncommon occurrence, not every time another mech breathes on you, you fall to the ground and shout "I've fallen and I cannot get up for 10 seconds".

Get rid of the 3rd person view when it happens, and don't disable everything. Yes I am on the ground, is that really supposed to disable my jump jets and weapons?
Would love to have the option to scoot along the ground in my jenner using my JJ's.

[ebea51]

OLD.

Already announced and in the pipe.
Read the COMMAND CHAIR forum.

[Lugh]

Really wish they'd bring them back like TODAY.. Sick of talentless light pilots.

[The Cheese]

Why is this even a question? I thought it was universally accepted that the game was better with knockdowns.