15 replies to this topic

[Mechwarrior0311]

This is a suggestion but this is also more of a warning that action is required here based on negative effects I am witnessing due to the current setup.


The way 8 mans are run at the moment is turning a lot of people off to the game entirely.

You have two crowds of people, you have those who want to run premades but also people who want to run verse other pugs.

My suggestion is that rather than forcing people to run 8 man premades only, to leave an option where you can select to go up against other premades or not.

I was under the impression that when 8 mans were released, that we would be able to run drops UP TO 8 people, not be locked in at 8 only. (everyone I have talked to thought the same thing)

The way it is implemented now, everyone has just gone back to doing 4 man drops or have stopped playing entirely.

The reason for this is because you have to have 8 people to drop, so if someone quits and you can't find a replacement, boom there goes your 8 man drops. Now you are forced to split into two groups, one with 4 and one with 3 to continue playing. This screws up the good time you were just having previously.

So what I propose in a nutshell, is to change 8 mans to run like 4 mans, up to 8 people can drop. To make premade verse premade more viable, offer higher rewards and the ability to select "premade" or not. You would then be placed in a seperate queue to only go up against premades.

You could even add in weight limits on the premades and go a sort of "arena" or "e-sport" approach with them, higher rewards, titles etc offered for those.

I suggest that this also be implemented the 12 mans as well that are coming in the future.

This is needed so that large clans can still have a lot of people playing, casual or hardcore, and not be forced to run 4 man drops only.

Please consider this suggestion!!


( and sorry for my bad typing, hopefully this wasn't too painful to read )

Edited by Mechwarrior0311, 26 December 2012 - 04:20 PM.

[Ragor]

/signed.

Would love to have a selection 'trials only', 'no premades' and 'real deal'.

Plus copycat GM à la WoT company battles incl. class limitations in several steps. (IMO tonnage limits wouldn't turn out, class limits could)

[Aedensin]

Sounds interesting though from my 8 man experience I've mostly seen groups comprised of 4-5 Atlai (atleast one with ECM) and then 2 ECM scouts. That alone can be a bit of a turn off.

Other teams would thank us for not running all Atlas or all ECM scouts, I thought that rather interesting as well..

Edited by Aedensin, 26 December 2012 - 04:05 PM.

[Ragor]

Aedensin, on 26 December 2012 - 04:04 PM, said:

(...)

Why not simply set a max GECM count per premade? Maybe 3 GECM max per unit?

[Marj]

I'd rather see a tonnage limit, so if you only have 7 you can still drop against a team of 8 and be somewhat balanced. Class limits aren't flexible enough imo, you'd have to have 8 players a side. Having 6 + 2 pugs isn't what most premades are looking for since the pugs won't be on comms. Even if there was integrated comms the pugs wouldn't be up to speed on the premade's tactics, so it wouldn't work well. I suggest tonnage as I think it would be far to difficult to get a BV system to work with 8 people and a limited ability to change loadouts due to cbill requirements.

The whole point of the 8 mans is to let organised teams play against each other without pugs, it's the only competitive play available for teams. The competitive nature of 8 mans should be kept.

[Mechwarrior0311]

There I added a poll, make sure to vote!

[Joanna Conners]

Mechwarrior0311, on 26 December 2012 - 03:56 PM, said:

This is a suggestion but this is also more of a warning that action is required here based on negative effects I am witnessing due to the current setup..

My suggestion is that rather than forcing people to run 8 man premades only, to leave an option where you can select to go up against other premades or not.

I was under the impression that when 8 mans were released, that we would be able to run drops UP TO 8 people, not be locked in at 8 only. (everyone I have talked to thought the same thing)

The way it is implemented now, everyone has just gone back to doing 4 man drops or have stopped playing entirely.

PGI gets "warnings" every single day from people unhappy about the littlest things to things they've clearly outlined steps for.

They did announce how the 8 man drops would work and detailed it clearly on the forums. I wasn't thrilled with it, but I can't claim ignorance. You all should have been prepared for the changes.

The matchmaking system is far from complete. This is simply another stage of the development. There is no reason to panic.

Mechwarrior0311, on 26 December 2012 - 04:21 PM, said:

There I added a poll, make sure to vote!

The problem with the "no" option is that it would allow people to drop against Pugs. This scares pugs and they create threads declaring they are going to leave the game and warn PGI about it. Often in fits of angst.

[Mechwarrior0311]

Demona, on 26 December 2012 - 04:26 PM, said:

PGI gets "warnings" every single day from people unhappy about the littlest things to things they've clearly outlined steps for.

They did announce how the 8 man drops would work and detailed it clearly on the forums. I wasn't thrilled with it, but I can't claim ignorance. You all should have been prepared for the changes.

The matchmaking system is far from complete. This is simply another stage of the development. There is no reason to panic.



The problem with the "no" option is that it would allow people to drop against Pugs. This scares pugs and they create threads declaring they are going to leave the game and warn PGI about it. Often in fits of angst.

Dont take me the wrong way. I am not warning like "Do this or else..."

I am warning because I am seeing negative effects in the game and I think that this issue needs to be addressed. This is not a threat, this is a suggestion!

( I am suggesting that a "Premade" option be put in the game. This would allow Pugs to run verse other Pugs and also allow for more people to play, by allowing groups of UP TO 8 people to drop at the same time, and also place the hardcore Premade only groups into a seperate queue and offering greater rewards and possible weight/class/equipment restrictions to make for more competitive gameplay. This would effectively separate the two crowds, and allow for both crowds to play the game the way they want to. )

Edited by Mechwarrior0311, 26 December 2012 - 04:34 PM.

[Ragor]

Marj, on 26 December 2012 - 04:21 PM, said:

(...)

I see your point but I don't expect to see matches with non-equal teamsized coming.

The limitations should only be there for 8 man premades
And IMO a tonnage limit is easier to exploit than a class limit.

For example a limitiation of:
-T1: max 2x light, max 2x assault, up to 8x heavy/medium
-T2: max 2x light, 2-4x assaults / heavies, up to 8x medium
-T3: max 4x light, max 1x assault, max 1 heavy, up to 8x medium
etc.

Could work out quite fair.

Edited by Ragor, 26 December 2012 - 04:36 PM.

[Joanna Conners]

Mechwarrior0311, on 26 December 2012 - 04:30 PM, said:

Dont take me the wrong way. I am not warning like "Do this or else..."

I am warning because I am seeing negative effects in the game and I think that this issue needs to be addressed. This is not a threat, this is a suggestion!

All right, I'll give you that, but the way you put it is a little dramatic. Keep in mind they've got people screaming at them to do the opposite as well.

Somewhere along the line, we all need to make concessions and deal with things.

[Mechwarrior0311]

I think a "Trials Only" would benefit the people who want to do nothing except single drop but not get rolled by people working together.

I think we can all agree that the intention of PGI with this game is to encourage team play and tactics, and I think they should keep going with that and keep changing the game to suit Clans and organized team play verse the player who wants to run around with an aimbot destroying masses of unorganized players. If that crowd is significant enough (which I doubt) then perhaps they could also add in a "Single Drop Only" mode where these people can run around only verse each other.

So you would have a Premade Only and a Single Drop Only or Regular <--( which would leave the game as is but allow up to 8 man drops instead of 8 man only )

The way it is now definitely has to be redone though. Its becoming hard to even find an 8 man match a lot of the time, everyone has gone back to doing 4 mans.

Edited by Mechwarrior0311, 26 December 2012 - 05:00 PM.

[Marj]

Ragor, on 26 December 2012 - 04:35 PM, said:

I see your point but I don't expect to see matches with non-equal teamsized coming.

The limitations should only be there for 8 man premades
And IMO a tonnage limit is easier to exploit than a class limit.

For example a limitiation of:
-T1: max 2x light, max 2x assault, up to 8x heavy/medium
-T2: max 2x light, 2-4x assaults / heavies, up to 8x medium
-T3: max 4x light, max 1x assault, max 1 heavy, up to 8x medium
etc.

Could work out quite fair.

Yes I meant only apply restrictions to premades, balancing based on tonnage would be too difficult for pug matches.

A tonnage limit won't be too open to abuse once things like ECM are more balanced. Personally I think class limits are much more problematic because they make people take ravens and jenners over commando's, atlases over awesomes etc. Too many mechs become obsolete.

A tonnage limit makes all mechs viable assuming equipment is properly balanced. The added flexibility means it's less likely a person won't be able to play their favourite mech due to game limits. The most balanced system is a point system (BV), but this would be unworkable in game. Imagine trying to balance 8 mechs, equipment, module and upgrade loadouts between matches around a set cbill value, it would take far too long!

[Ragor]

Marj, on 27 December 2012 - 01:05 AM, said:

(...)
Personally I think class limits are much more problematic because they make people take ravens and jenners over commando's, atlases over awesomes etc. Too many mechs become obsolete.
(...)

I see your point but still keep my stance.
IMO using tonnage limits would make whole mech classes obsolete.
And I don't see (taking your example) an Atlas making other assaults obsolete:
Ok, Atlas has more armor than all other assaults. But both the Stalker and the Awesome can carry by far more firepower.
Awesome is some kind of Jack of all trades, quite mobile, decent armor, serious firepower.
Atlas is the classic tank. Slow, massiv armor but lacking the possible damage output.
Stalker I see as some kind of tank destroyer: Speed is ok, but agility is very limited. Therefor it carries massive firepower, but very vulnerable when flanked.
-> IMO every Assault has it's own job, in a class system I don't see a single chassis becoming obsolete since for every overall tactic you take the optimal chassis for the job.

Tonnage based drops IMO would favour extreme team setups.

But I think both ways have their pros and cons.

[Marj]

Ragor, on 27 December 2012 - 03:18 AM, said:

...
But I think both ways have their pros and cons.
...

Absolutely. I'd like to test both methods, although it probably won't happen. If we do get class limits I'd want to see a dynamic limit as you suggested though, I think forcing people into certain classes when they don't have the time to grind a lot of mechs would hurt the player base.

[Capt Cole 117]

8 mans who are short often get people from the public section of the teamspeak server.

[Joanna Conners]

Mechwarrior0311, on 26 December 2012 - 04:59 PM, said:

I think a "Trials Only" would benefit the people who want to do nothing except single drop but not get rolled by people working together.

I think we can all agree that the intention of PGI with this game is to encourage team play and tactics, and I think they should keep going with that and keep changing the game to suit Clans and organized team play verse the player who wants to run around with an aimbot destroying masses of unorganized players. If that crowd is significant enough (which I doubt) then perhaps they could also add in a "Single Drop Only" mode where these people can run around only verse each other.

So you would have a Premade Only and a Single Drop Only or Regular <--( which would leave the game as is but allow up to 8 man drops instead of 8 man only )

The way it is now definitely has to be redone though. Its becoming hard to even find an 8 man match a lot of the time, everyone has gone back to doing 4 mans.

I'd love to see a stock drop mode!