37 replies to this topic

[FrostPaw]

To be honest, Atlas has never been the problem for me. It's lights that at one time, could be countered by streaks and lrms suddenly being immune to both when they were already running about without collision.

[Twisted Power]

I didn't vote because your missing the option I want.

"ECM Sucks and does too much, thus ruins the entire game. Please take away all the extra crap you added to it!"

[Elder Thorn]

we need collisions back before we can say anything about balance and fast mechs tbh

[ltwally]

Rocket2Uranus, on 27 December 2012 - 10:31 AM, said:

I think all light mechs shouldn't be able to carry ECM. Lag shield is still in full effect.

For the most part the netcode && hitbox issues have been fixed. However, the dev's cannot fix crummy internet connections.

If you're having issues hitting light mechs, this is a sign that either your connection stinks, or specific opponents in light mechs stink. That, or your aim...

[ltwally]

Elder Thorn, on 28 December 2012 - 09:12 AM, said:

we need collisions back before we can say anything about balance and fast mechs tbh

True. But one of the issues I had with knockdowns in their previous incarnation was that heavier mechs had no effect by a 35-tonne mech traveling at 150kph ramming into it. This should not be.

On the other hand, sometimes large mechs would just fall down for no reason. This should not be, either.

All I'm saying is that, properly implemented, light mechs will not be the only ones effected.

[StalaggtIKE]

ECM Lights are a bigger threat imo than Atlas D-DC. I say instead, just balance ECM

Edited by StalaggtIKE, 28 December 2012 - 03:57 PM.

[ltwally]

StalaggtIKE, on 28 December 2012 - 03:57 PM, said:

ECM Lights are a bigger threat imo than Atlas D-DC. I say instead, just balance ECM

If you changed your wording to, "Light mechs benefit more from ECM than heavies," it would be more accurate.

Also, comparing lights vs heavies is highly dependent on their loadouts and their play style and skill levels.

[Capt Cole 117]

There is no information warfare only ecm spam.

[ICEFANG13]

To be 100% honest, all other EW is countered by ECM, so that statement is actually true.

[Elder Thorn]

ltwally, on 28 December 2012 - 03:53 PM, said:

True. But one of the issues I had with knockdowns in their previous incarnation was that heavier mechs had no effect by a 35-tonne mech traveling at 150kph ramming into it. This should not be.

On the other hand, sometimes large mechs would just fall down for no reason. This should not be, either.

All I'm saying is that, properly implemented, light mechs will not be the only ones effected.

no effect isn't really true, i got downed a few times by hunchbacks when i was piloting an Atlas

no seriously, i think the biggest problem with colisions was the warping, collision itself was not perfect but ok, i wouldn't mind if there was more effect on small guys hitting big guys, but in the end what really needs to go is any kind of mech running THROUGH you, so you get hit by your own team as they try to shoot him and then he just turns arround, much faster than you, shots your back and if necessary moves THROUGH you again, without any penalty at all.
This got better last week, but i still see it from time to time.
Also lights circling a heavy mech runnign into each other should definatly be punished, which isn't happening right now, in fact quite the opposite, they start to warp back and forth and there is no way you gonna hit one of them, and whoever is claiming this has to do with internet connection is just... *sigh* i better redact myself again

[BR0WN_H0RN3T]

The prob with Light mechs having ECM is they simply blob with the rest of their team because it's much better utilily than run off alone and actually perform as scouts. That's the current problem with ECM. If they remove it's AoE and just let it affect the mech that's carrying it we might actually see some Light's behave as scouts. Wouldn't that be a change.

[StalaggtIKE]

ltwally, on 28 December 2012 - 07:06 PM, said:

If you changed your wording to, "Light mechs benefit more from ECM than heavies," it would be more accurate.

Also, comparing lights vs heavies is highly dependent on their loadouts and their play style and skill levels.

To each their own. I feel ECM lights are more dangerous. A "flock" of RVN-3L are far more intimidating than a bunch of slow Atlas.

[ICEFANG13]

Slow Atlas that can be TAGed and LRMed as they slowly wonder to you under their invincible umbrella, not so bad

[StalaggtIKE]

ICEFANG13, on 29 December 2012 - 05:30 PM, said:

Slow Atlas that can be TAGed and LRMed as they slowly wonder to you under their invincible umbrella, not so bad

Exactly.

[Uyama Kurita]

Actually, ECM should be limited in 2 ways. It should be adjusted to the following modes :

Mode 1 : Standard Jamming - 200m radius AOE. Reduces lock on range to protected targets to 600m. Streaks and LRMs take 25% more time to lock on to protected units within AOE. All restrictions ignored by TAG or BAP.
Mode 2 : Tight Jamming - 90m radius AOE, jams all opposing radar (ie static on radar screen) within AOE. Lock on within AOE is sporadic (ie. Takes 5 seconds to lock on, and is lost within 3 seconds) unless opposing mech mounts a BAP or uses TAG. Does not prevent lock on for opposing mechs outside AOE that have LoS to target. For opponents within AOE, Sharing of Lock with anyone is jammed/prevented. Streaks and LRMs take 25% more time to lock on to targets protected by AOE unless they mount BAP or use TAG.
Mode 3 : Single Unit Jamming. Completely focuses jamming on single locked target within 90m. Scrambles their sensors. Causes static effect on HUD. Streaks and LRMs take 50% more time to lock on for jammed unit. Countered if jammed unit has BAP or TAG.

Secondly, because of the way ECM is used, it should be mountable only on command mechs (ie must mount command console to mount ECM or BAP), and only on certain specific mechs (command mechs like the Atlas D-DC, Cyclops, or dedicated scouts like the Ostscout where weaponry is limited to no more than 2 weapon slots)

[ltwally]

Uyama Kurita, on 29 December 2012 - 08:36 PM, said:

Actually, ECM should be limited in 2 ways. It should be adjusted to the following modes :

Mode 1 : Standard Jamming - 200m radius AOE. Reduces lock on range to protected targets to 600m. Streaks and LRMs take 25% more time to lock on to protected units within AOE. All restrictions ignored by TAG or BAP.
Mode 2 : Tight Jamming - 90m radius AOE, jams all opposing radar (ie static on radar screen) within AOE. Lock on within AOE is sporadic (ie. Takes 5 seconds to lock on, and is lost within 3 seconds) unless opposing mech mounts a BAP or uses TAG. Does not prevent lock on for opposing mechs outside AOE that have LoS to target. For opponents within AOE, Sharing of Lock with anyone is jammed/prevented. Streaks and LRMs take 25% more time to lock on to targets protected by AOE unless they mount BAP or use TAG.
Mode 3 : Single Unit Jamming. Completely focuses jamming on single locked target within 90m. Scrambles their sensors. Causes static effect on HUD. Streaks and LRMs take 50% more time to lock on for jammed unit. Countered if jammed unit has BAP or TAG.

Secondly, because of the way ECM is used, it should be mountable only on command mechs (ie must mount command console to mount ECM or BAP), and only on certain specific mechs (command mechs like the Atlas D-DC, Cyclops, or dedicated scouts like the Ostscout where weaponry is limited to no more than 2 weapon slots)

While I'm not certain I agree with the exact specifics, I like the flavour of the first two modes.

Mode 3 has a serious issue, however: it still enables a light mech to be a far more devastating threat than it should be.

Personally, I think ECM should have just one mode, and that it should counter/disrupt/negate Artemis, Beagle, Narc and Tag on self and friendlies within 180m. That ECM should prevent enemies within 180m from gaining lock on the ECM wielder. That ECM should further slow lock times by 25 - 50% from enemies outside 180m upon the ECM wielder and allies within 180m. That ECM should not otherwise mess with sensors/comms, and that even without lock folks should still be able to tell who is on which team.

Is that still over-powered? Perhaps. But it's a lot less insane than what we currently have.

[Cronstintein]

If anything, I would say lights should be the only class of mech *without* ECM. Right now the only counter to lights is streaks, so an ECM light has no counter other than another ECM light... pretty lame.

ECM would be much better balanced without the complete immunity to lock-ons. Make it take 2x as long to achieve lock maybe? An ECM atlas is easily countered by TAG, lights are too small an fast to get a reliable lock with TAG.

[Taizan]

Just today I tagged an ECM Atlas from about 190m and killed him with my LRMs. ECM on the Atlas is really not the issue. The issue lies in the way ECM "locks out" so many other mechanics that makes it do more than ECM actually should.