33 replies to this topic

[Spinning Burr]

BAP is a must if you run an A1 streakcat or D2 streak commando so that you can target powered down enemy mechs. Otherwise you can't shoot them at all in one-on-one combat if they power down facing you. Otherwise it's a waste of 1.5 tons in current climate relative to anything except machine gun + ammo (which is a bigger waste). If you don't know what to do with 1.5 spare tons after ammo, armor, engine upgrade, heat sinks, etc then just get AMS which gets utility if you can't/don't run ECM. Sensor module and target info module get you similar benefits to BAP without any tonnage cost at all mech weight classes. Sensor module at $2M is best module value in game as it gives you weightless mini BAP.

Second exception (besides streakcat BAP) is a dedicated LRM boat support mech. Get the full package to optimize your LRM barrage: Artemis upgrade, BAP, TAG laser, and sensor module. Think of this as a package.

[BlakNite]

In the real world, active ECM has a downside. As an active sensor it gives off an active signal that can be detected with a passive or active sensor. You may not have a true fix on any targets within the ECM bubble, but you would definately have a general idea where the ECM bubble was located and its size. Hence the term ECCM. Not sure if the beagle could be adapted for this purpose, but it sounds like it would be the ideal system even though it's tecnically an active system as well. Unless a jammer is powerful enough to completely overwelm a mechs radar, something should show in the general area the ECM mech is located. A modern twist to the term "fog of war". Bottom line, if an ECM system/sensor is active, they should be detectable to a degree with the right equipment.

[shintakie]

BlakNite, on 31 December 2012 - 12:10 PM, said:

In the real world, active ECM has a downside. As an active sensor it gives off an active signal that can be detected with a passive or active sensor. You may not have a true fix on any targets within the ECM bubble, but you would definately have a general idea where the ECM bubble was located and its size. Hence the term ECCM. Not sure if the beagle could be adapted for this purpose, but it sounds like it would be the ideal system even though it's tecnically an active system as well. Unless a jammer is powerful enough to completely overwelm a mechs radar, something should show in the general area the ECM mech is located. A modern twist to the term "fog of war". Bottom line, if an ECM system/sensor is active, they should be detectable to a degree with the right equipment.

It'd be interestin if havin BAP on your mech allowed you to see ECM bubbles when you're within however many meters seems fair. It wouldn't really be game changin and it'd only help you find the mech with ECM, not the mechs under the ECM bubble, but it'd give BAP somethin it could actually use.

It'd probably have to only work for the person with BAP though...not sure about that one.

[LaserAngel]

I have it on my Awesome 8Q and Catapult K2 for fire support information at long range. It's great to hit people with PPCs +1,000m.

[BlakNite]

Depending on the level the devs wish to go with the whole ECM thing, interconnected lances would make sense. It can already be done with BAP. That's how yoou get th assist bonuses with regards to targeting for the long range boats. BAP as a ECCM would be no different. All mechs in the same lance or two lances would see the information from the BAP equiped mech.

[Rogkgar]

Bluten, on 27 December 2012 - 06:27 PM, said:

Well said Doc but they aren't even going to consider doing that. I call the ECM the jesus box now. Stand near me, my children, and thee shall avoid missile locks. I will protect you with my divine power. As I walk in the valley of barrages, I fear no locks. Yay is me, the jesus box.

[color=#222222]It sux for us who run heavy LRM boats. Nothing worse than seeing the enemy and not being able to send a nice welcome to the neighbor hood gift.[/color][color=#222222][/color]

[Ralgas]

bap is definatley worth it for lights, i run it on my 3l. In ecm matches circle round and find their lrms/snipers, which simply think extreme range can be their defense. Bap + range module = 1/2 map tageting range in some cases.

Edited by Ralgas, 09 February 2013 - 07:20 PM.

[Kaspirikay]

I still use it on my Streakcat

[Lykaon]

I personaly see the current implimentation of BAP as part of the reason for the over featured ECM.

ECM as it's portayed in the source materiel (Table Top Game) is a hard counter to several elctronic systems including Beagle Active Probe.

The issue is that these electronic systems as they have been implimented in MWo are bearly worth using never mind devoting additional electronics to counter their use (ecm).

NARC is absolute junk as it is currently so nearly no one uses it and certainly no one who is "in the know" uses one.

BAP bearly does anything.A tiny sensor range boost and detecting shut down units at 120m is not such a big feature that it will be commonly used enough for ECM to be taken to counter it.

The generous amounts of cover available on all maps mitigates TAG to the point that it is rarely seen in use by mechs other than a rare scout chasis or dedicated LRM boat.

Now if support electronics were more valuable we could do with lesser featured ECM.

For example if BAP had the ability to detect all hostile units within 120m of the BAP it would be worth bringing and worth countering with ECM.

[Reported for Inappropriate Name]

there's no reason to play any mech that doesn't give you ecm

[Khobai]

BAP is pretty much useless if you have competent scouts on your team. Because even if you have BAP, and the enemy doesnt have ECM, the scouts on your team will still detect the enemy before you do. And if the enemy does have ECM, BAP does you no good anyway.

BAP needs to work like this:
Without BAP or Adv. Sensor Module, detect enemy mechs with ECM at 200m
With BAP or Adv. Sensor Module (but not both), detect enemy mechs with ECM at 250m
With BAP + Adv. Sensor Module, detect enemy mechs with ECM at 300m

BAP also needs to let you see ALL hidden enemy mechs within 120m regardless of line-of-sight, terrain, obstacles, shutdown, etc... BAP should let you detect enemies that are behind you and within 120m. BAP should let you detect enemies that are behind terrain/buildings and within 120m. Etc... thats what BAP does in tabletop and that functionality is completely missing in MWO.

Edited by Khobai, 10 February 2013 - 05:31 AM.

[dunkov]

For my Jenner, using BAP with TAG and the Adv. target decay module, there is a beautiful synergy, but it does require support from your team to benefit. Also I'd you run streaks, BAP is great for your enemies who overheat.

[Stingz]

Most useful on Artemis equipped LRM users. Artemis needs LOS to get the accuracy bonus, so you're spotting for yourself mostly.

[Eric darkstar Marr]

I run BAP with range and decay for my LRM mechs it makes a huge difference, also always make sure to have TAG.

I have been in a few arguments with my own clan now on the merits of TAG being the boat. The difference is astronomical talking around 400+ damage a round over not having it. Also BAP + TAG + decay/range makes killing those pesky lights that much easier.

I have been called a hacker so so many times now by those 3L pilots it has lost its humor.

Now you said sniper so I would have to say get the advanced zoom and sit back sniping. YOU only need to be able to see them you do not need a lock on.