18 replies to this topic

[zenlike]

Here's a solution to allow players to continue playing in player-made tournaments and player-made community warfare:

Allow players to add a line to their user.cfg, e.g. synch_passowrd = aarvark. The leaders of the 8-man teams who have sync_password set cannot match against other teams/players unless they also have sync_password set to 'aardvark' or whatever the leaders agree on.

This allows the competitive community to keep a feature that they've loved. It also frees the need for your developers to do any GUI work. This change will largely be invisible to the rest of the playerbase. Everyone wins.


Here's some pseudocode:

if(elo(team1) == elo(team2) && !is_set(sync_password))
{
  match(team1,team2);
}
else if(is_set(sync_password) && team1.sync_password == team2.sync_password)
{
  match(team1,team2);
}
else
{
  ... try again ...
}

[The Legendary Samurai]

Bump for an interesting suggestion.

Not the ideal solution, but I'll take anything that allows competitive players to reliably sync drop.

[Corvus Antaka]

or PGI could add lobbies & an ingame ability to fight against other teams in the future to handle these functions Still, I like your solution for the short term.

[Lmxar]

Interesting and plausible. However a simple lobby system where you could open/close randoms joining and allow players/groups to pick a team would be much better and really shouldn't be too hard.

But since they don't have lobbies, this would be a good temporary band aid.

Edit: haha, almost identical to the post above.

Edited by Lmxar, 20 February 2013 - 02:08 AM.

[Joe Luck]

You know what is even simpler?

An opt out button. Opt out of ELO matching every time you start the client.

One of the problems of the current matching ELO system comes from lack of visible feedback to the user. I don't know if I'm being matched, associated with a group, or still trying to find people. So since I have no feedback and it fails, I start to assume no one else is playing. Which in return comes back to how many people online. Which then brings the discussion how many people playing does a queue system need to function quickly? Which then begs the question how many people online is acceptable to be perceived as a successful venture? If you thought only 10,000 people were playing at once would you think that this game was worth your time? How about 5,000 or 2000? Sometimes lack of something is more to do with trying NOT to answer a perceptual question when all that it answers is to bring more improper questions.


My two cents.

[IceSerpent]

Joe Luck, on 20 February 2013 - 10:00 AM, said:

You know what is even simpler?

An opt out button. Opt out of ELO matching every time you start the client.

It won't do the trick, as it will match you against the first team in the queue that also opted out of Elo. The point is to drop against a specific team instead.

Regarding OP suggestion, this has been suggested many, many times. IIRC, I first saw this idea mentioned on these forums sometime during closed beta. As a matter of fact, I sent a PM with the same exact idea to Paul yesterday.

[focuspark]

private matches are coming soon... been announce in the dev QA already

[IceSerpent]

focuspark, on 20 February 2013 - 10:13 AM, said:

private matches are coming soon... been announce in the dev QA already

No, they are not - "we'll get to it after implementing CW, which doesn't even have an ETA yet" dosn't qualify as "coming soon".

[focuspark]

I see no ordering in this statement from Paul. Seems to me that Paul is saying the two items (private matches and community warefare) are parallel projects.

Q: Are 8man (4 and 12 also, once we get those map sizes) groups EVER going to be allowed to choose other 8man groups to fight against so that matches can be set up in advance, therefore the community can get involved in orchestrating tournaments/matches?
[color=#959595]A: Yes. Community Warfare will provide some of this functionality, along with Private Matches.[/color]

[Joe Luck]

IceSerpent, on 20 February 2013 - 10:10 AM, said:

It won't do the trick, as it will match you against the first team in the queue that also opted out of Elo. The point is to drop against a specific team instead.

Regarding OP suggestion, this has been suggested many, many times. IIRC, I first saw this idea mentioned on these forums sometime during closed beta. As a matter of fact, I sent a PM with the same exact idea to Paul yesterday.

I'm not trying to knock the idea. The main thing is if they want this to be the final thing? Once you release something people treat it as the final thing. Current sync dropping is a hack to get a desired result. There might be some catch they really want to have with private matches. Hell, it could be to monetize it I don't know. I sure hope not.

[IceSerpent]

focuspark, on 20 February 2013 - 10:38 AM, said:

I see no ordering in this statement from Paul. Seems to me that Paul is saying the two items (private matches and community warefare) are parallel projects.

Q: Are 8man (4 and 12 also, once we get those map sizes) groups EVER going to be allowed to choose other 8man groups to fight against so that matches can be set up in advance, therefore the community can get involved in orchestrating tournaments/matches?
[color=#959595]A: Yes. Community Warfare will provide some of this functionality, along with Private Matches.[/color]

"Community Warfare will provide..." implies that CW has to be implemented first. At least that's my understanding of it (I certainly hope that I am wrong, but I doubt it).

Joe Luck, on 20 February 2013 - 11:16 AM, said:

I'm not trying to knock the idea. The main thing is if they want this to be the final thing? Once you release something people treat it as the final thing. Current sync dropping is a hack to get a desired result. There might be some catch they really want to have with private matches. Hell, it could be to monetize it I don't know. I sure hope not.

There are two possible "final things" in a mechwarrior game - Community Warfare similar to the old NBT-HC league and Solaris style tornaments similar to what RHoD league does now. Both can easily co-exist as the "end game" and they share some of the backend functionality (i.e. a multi-stage planetary assault in CW should allow matching of a specific attacker vs. specific defender). So, not implementing that backend (which would also give players something to do while we are waiting for CW) sooner rather than later doesn't relly make any sense, especially given that feature in question is dead simple to implement.

[focuspark]

IceSerpent, on 20 February 2013 - 11:47 AM, said:

"Community Warfare will provide..." implies that CW has to be implemented first. At least that's my understanding of it (I certainly hope that I am wrong, but I doubt it).

I read it as both CW and Private Matches will provide the functionality, in different ways.

[Alois Hammer]

Just a thought...but how about a pay-to-pick plan? All these "leagues" that claim they're pouring so much support into the game could each pay for a password-protected .cfg file option that would let them run their "tournaments" in their own little private queues so long as they're paid up and providing the support they claim entitles them to such special treatment.

They've got their little "Esports*" corner and can play their uber-competitive stuff, the common players can go on with their merry fumblings, and everyone's not in each other's face about it.

(*Seriously, I can't even say "Esport" aloud with a straight face, but whatever...)

Edited by Alois Hammer, 20 February 2013 - 12:19 PM.

[IceSerpent]

focuspark, on 20 February 2013 - 12:07 PM, said:

I read it as both CW and Private Matches will provide the functionality, in different ways.

That's a possiblity, but we don't have an ETA for private matches either.

Alois Hammer, on 20 February 2013 - 12:19 PM, said:

Just a thought...but how about a pay-to-pick plan? All these "leagues" that claim they're pouring so much support into the game could each pay for a password-protected .cfg file option that would let them run their "tournaments" in their own little private queues so long as they're paid up and providing the support they claim entitles them to such special treatment.

Works for me personally, but it would prevent free players from entering the competition - I think an "entry fee" in c-bills would work better.

[Arisaema]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 20 February 2013 - 02:07 AM, said:

or PGI could add lobbies & an ingame ability to fight against other teams in the future to handle these functions Still, I like your solution for the short term.

Folks have been asking for lobbies and real in game chat for almost as long as they have been asking PGI to nerf ECM!

Instead of having to do this in config, it should be part of the match mode.

[zenlike]

Arisaema, on 20 February 2013 - 12:53 PM, said:

Folks have been asking for lobbies and real in game chat for almost as long as they have been asking PGI to nerf ECM!

Instead of having to do this in config, it should be part of the match mode.

It would be nice. But in Ask The Devs #30, they said lobby is not a priority.

[Alois Hammer]

IceSerpent, on 20 February 2013 - 12:31 PM, said:

Works for me personally, but it would prevent free players from entering the competition - I think an "entry fee" in c-bills would work better.

I wasn't thinking a per-player basis, but more like...renting an Arena or server, sort of. WeBad League applies for a League Queue, once it's paid for they can let whoever they invite use said queue by giving them the password. Whether it costs players on a per-use basis is up to the League.

[IceSerpent]

Alois Hammer, on 21 February 2013 - 05:37 AM, said:

I wasn't thinking a per-player basis, but more like...renting an Arena or server, sort of. WeBad League applies for a League Queue, once it's paid for they can let whoever they invite use said queue by giving them the password. Whether it costs players on a per-use basis is up to the League.

Ah, I see what you are saying. That would work for me too.

[grayson marik]

Inertiaman, on 20 February 2013 - 05:46 AM, said:

But of course if some cogent lobby system had been introduced at this stage no-one would mind. The fact is to make anything of this game at a competitive level now has required several third party apps/systems and literally unending patience. To have the one remaining method of organising team games taken away in favour of a totally incomplete replacement is troubling.

Further - if we had assurances that the gap would only be two weeks or something no-one would mind that either. Track record on this kind of thing doesn't really instil confidence though does it?

Whiteknight all you want - fact remains we'll have been in beta for a year soon and the best you can offer in regards to match arrangement is a promise that CW will drop "during 2013".

is that good enough in your mind to maintain interest from the competitive players that will add serious value to the progression and longevity of the game?

Hmm for me the answer was clear this very moment... it is not enough to keep my interest. as PGI could follow by my session times on this forum, I have been on the forums more than 3 times as long as ingame since MM phase 3.

right now i could have games while my wife is out with some friends of her but instead i play some mwtactics on the other screen while posting here.

Why? because even with the nice new trebuchet it is just BOOOOORING! And the longer it takes it is not getting better.

Just a question to PGI: Havent you noticed from your data that the groups that used to play together from CB on till now, almosed ceased to do so?

Half of my team is playing planetside2 instead of MWO because it is boring without being able to shedule up matches agains SPECIFIC other teams.

I just dont get it I mean.... we can see it on the TS servers every day, That the higly dedicated players and groups just burn out in boringness because this game simply has no point, once a certein degree of mechs and c-bills is reached.

PGI must have those data right at their hand, yet they postphone such a dead simple thing like a lobby so far down the pipe that it not even has a releas date....*shaking head, walking away*