67 replies to this topic

[Ryvucz]

I'd like a safety kill switch to toggle to maintain a shutdown override.

Why? Because spamming override while a large pile of scrap shuts down doesn't cut it.

Sure it will get abused and people will suicide, but quite frankly, when I know the pile of scrap can alpha two more times and I can shut the pile down myself to return to "safe temperatures". I'd rather it be in there.

Nothing worse than barely hitting the heat threshold just to have the pile of scrap shut down on you anyway to get killed when you can fire like crazy and kill the other guy yourself.

"Learn the Quick Ignition skill" - .... it's great when I want it to shut down, not when I know it will get me killed anyway.

Besides, my keyboard doesn't like me pounding override. I asked it, it has feelings too.

It hates when I mash Q as well. (This is a pun, either by QQ'n or by the fact the thing gives you information on friendly mechs)

[squidvt]

I agree, the over ride should not let a mech shutdown Mech.

[blah40000]

if you hit override before overheating it will override shutdowns and you won't shutdown while overheating. I'm not sure if it's currently a toggle or if it prevents shutdown for a certain amount of time after being pressed, having it be a straight up toggle with indicator would be nice though.

tl;dr: your suggestion is already in the game.

[Ryvucz]

blah40000, on 27 December 2012 - 09:42 PM, said:

if you hit override before overheating it will override shutdowns and you won't shutdown while overheating. I'm not sure if it's currently a toggle or if it prevents shutdown for a certain amount of time after being pressed, having it be a straight up toggle with indicator would be nice though.

tl;dr: your suggestion is already in the game.

Incorrect, re-read second sentence.

TL;DR - No it's not.

[Like a Sir]

It is, but it it's not a toggle, you hit the override and if you do it within a certain time frame, before overheating, your mech won't shut down. It never works for me though, unless I am above 90% heat, and I alpha right after I hit it... What I would like to see, would be an increase on that timer, so I could hit it 5-10 seconds before the shut down, at lower heat levels.

[blinkin]

or we could all add heatsinks and do a better job of managing heat. the heat scale is not small. i think all of those hunchbacks who run 9 medium lasers should be punished for their stupidity with a shutdown.

i shut myself down on occasion and every time i do, it is because i got greedy and pushed my mech too far. sometimes i will accept a shutdown in exchange for a kill. <-(yes this qualifies as being greedy too)

what you are proposing strips away the first penalty on the heat scale (you are asking to be able to toggle on and off a penalty for poor gameplay).

you are given plenty of warnings along with a meter that tells EXACTLY how far you are from shutdown. build more heat efficient mechs, learn to be more careful or both.

Edited by blinkin, 27 December 2012 - 11:40 PM.

[Like a Sir]

blinkin, on 27 December 2012 - 11:39 PM, said:

or we could all add heatsinks and do a better job of managing heat. the heat scale is not small. i think all of those hunchbacks who run 9 medium lasers should be punished for their stupidity with a shutdown.

i shut myself down on occasion and every time i do, it is because i got greedy and pushed my mech too far. sometimes i will accept a shutdown in exchange for a kill. <-(yes this qualifies as being greedy too)

what you are proposing strips away the first penalty on the heat scale (you are asking to be able to toggle on and off a penalty for poor gameplay).

you are given plenty of warnings along with a meter that tells EXACTLY how far you are from shutdown. build more heat efficient mechs, learn to be more careful or both.

There is a penalty though, your internals start taking damage if your mech is on, and you are past 100% heat, your ammo also has a good chance of cooking off. It's one of those high risk, high reward deals...

[blinkin]

Like a Sir, on 27 December 2012 - 11:43 PM, said:

There is a penalty though, your internals start taking damage if your mech is on, and you are past 100% heat, your ammo also has a good chance of cooking off. It's one of those high risk, high reward deals...

if they include something like this then they need to work in the table top rules for reduced speed on engine overheat. when you redline your engine it needs to hurt.

[Volume]

It would be nice but it would just encourage people to abuse heat even more.

[EtherDragon]

I hate the idea that we can blow ourselves up with overheat. It's not in the table-top rules - the worste thing that can happen is you are forced to shut-down and you can't override it.

[blinkin]

EtherDragon, on 28 December 2012 - 09:41 AM, said:

I hate the idea that we can blow ourselves up with overheat. It's not in the table-top rules - the worste thing that can happen is you are forced to shut-down and you can't override it.

um... no.

http://bg.battletech...th_Counters.pdf
^^zoom in a bit and look at the lower right corner of the first sheet, the big box labeled heat data.
and for those who are too lazy, i shall list them:

• -1 movement points
  
• +1 modifier to fire
  
• -2 movement points
  
• +2 modifier to fire
  
• shutdown avoid on 4+
  
• -3 movement points
  
• +3 modifier to fire
  
• shutdown avoid on 6+ --me:(you use d6 for these rolls)
  
• ammo explosion avoid 4+
  
• -4 movement points
  
• shutdown avoid on 8+
  
• ammo explosion avoid on 6+
  
• +4 modifier to fire
  
• -5 movement points
  
• shutdown avoid on 10+
  
• ammo explosion avoid on 8+
  
• shutdown

there is a lot more than just shutdown. this doesn't even include potential pilot injury.

this game is extremely forgiving to players compared to TT.

[Spirit of the Wolf]

It may suck when it happens to you...

But we've all laughed when we've seen the new guy run into the caldera on Caustic, weapons blazing, who suddenly overheats and explodes. Cos' it's funny.

[Ryvucz]

blinkin, on 27 December 2012 - 11:39 PM, said:

or we could all add heatsinks and do a better job of managing heat. the heat scale is not small....

The main point is, when you alpha strike in a heat magnet mech (Awesome/Stalker) you're probably at half heat threshold as it is.

When you know you are going to shut done for your next alpha strike (Say, 50% current heat, and your alpha will take 60%) cannot be overridden until the shutdown sequence has already started.

Sure, we can remove those heat producing weapons and replace them with more heatsinks, or a smaller engine to accommodate more heatsinks.

But at that point, you're limiting yourself firepower, given that the Awesome and Stalker do not have ballistic hard points, your heat is going to be crazy due to missiles and energy based weapons.

Which is why I'd like a kill switch, much like how Catapults and Centurions have their toggle missile bay doors.

If I know I'm going to over heat, but not to the point I'll kill myself, I'd rather avoid shutting down altogether.

[blinkin]

Ryvucz, on 28 December 2012 - 12:48 PM, said:

The main point is, when you alpha strike in a heat magnet mech (Awesome/Stalker) you're probably at half heat threshold as it is.

When you know you are going to shut done for your next alpha strike (Say, 50% current heat, and your alpha will take 60%) cannot be overridden until the shutdown sequence has already started.

Sure, we can remove those heat producing weapons and replace them with more heatsinks, or a smaller engine to accommodate more heatsinks.

But at that point, you're limiting yourself firepower, given that the Awesome and Stalker do not have ballistic hard points, your heat is going to be crazy due to missiles and energy based weapons.

Which is why I'd like a kill switch, much like how Catapults and Centurions have their toggle missile bay doors.

If I know I'm going to over heat, but not to the point I'll kill myself, I'd rather avoid shutting down altogether.

yes heat is supposed to be a limitation on fire power. the mechs are not heat magnets the weapons are. so yes you should be forced to downscale or remove weapons if you want to manage heat.

you get a powerful alpha strike and the price for that is shutdowns.

i watched a mech once with 6x PPC. that is 60 points of damage all on one point at very long range. he shut down after every 2 shots. that shutdown was what balanced him.

[Ryvucz]

blinkin, on 28 December 2012 - 01:31 PM, said:

yes heat is supposed to be a limitation on fire power. the mechs are not heat magnets the weapons are. so yes you should be forced to downscale or remove weapons if you want to manage heat.

you get a powerful alpha strike and the price for that is shutdowns.

i watched a mech once with 6x PPC. that is 60 points of damage all on one point at very long range. he shut down after every 2 shots. that shutdown was what balanced him.

And you don't think that using a kill switch wouldn't be balanced? If he doesn't do it properly, his engine will have a meltdown and he will die.

Not sure if you're looking at this through a window or a door.

[blinkin]

Ryvucz, on 28 December 2012 - 01:36 PM, said:

And you don't think that using a kill switch wouldn't be balanced? If he doesn't do it properly, his engine will have a meltdown and he will die.

Not sure if you're looking at this through a window or a door.

like i said before if they do this then they need to include ALL of the other heat penalties. if you are over 100% your hud should flicker, arms and torso should move slower, your mech should decrease in speed, and they already have ammo explosions.

if you redline your mech you should be punished.

[Ryvucz]

blinkin, on 28 December 2012 - 01:54 PM, said:

like i said before if they do this then they need to include ALL of the other heat penalties. if you are over 100% your hud should flicker, arms and torso should move slower, your mech should decrease in speed, and they already have ammo explosions.

if you redline your mech you should be punished.

You answered my question.

[blinkin]

Ryvucz, on 28 December 2012 - 01:56 PM, said:

You answered my question.

i suspect this is an insult and you are accusing me of being a TT elitist. i shall show you the depths of my purist devotion. i have played a grand total of 1 tabletop games of battletech (3-4 hours). the video games i have played are: one on the super nintendo that i never bothered to beat, mechwarrior 3 mercs, mechwarrior 2 and ghostbear's legacy, there was also one evening me and some friends spent in some mechwarrior battle pods, and before this i played living legends. as far as the computer games are concerned before this i probably spent a total of less than 24 hours playing between all of these games. i own none of the books (fiction, rule, or otherwise).

i will not support removing a game component just because it makes the game difficult.

racing games keep you on the track, flight simulators blow you up when you hit the ground, first person shooters force you to reload when you run out of ammo, and mechwarrior shuts you down when you fire your weapons too much.

Edited by blinkin, 28 December 2012 - 02:20 PM.

[Ryvucz]

blinkin, on 28 December 2012 - 02:10 PM, said:

i suspect this is an insult and you are accusing me of being a TT elitist.....
.....i will not support removing a game component just because it makes the game difficult.

I don't think you've read my posts or thought about them.

My main question was whether or not you looked at the issue through a window (You can actually see, and are willing to see the view) or looking through a door (You have it shut, and refuse to look at it any other way).

I did not mention removing anything. Again, read before you post.

As far as insulting you? I think you are overly sensitive, as that was not an insult, just wondering about how closed minded you are, which you did in fact answer.

[blinkin]

Ryvucz, on 28 December 2012 - 02:25 PM, said:

I don't think you've read my posts or thought about them.

My main question was whether or not you looked at the issue through a window (You can actually see, and are willing to see the view) or looking through a door (You have it shut, and refuse to look at it any other way).

I did not mention removing anything. Again, read before you post.

As far as insulting you? I think you are overly sensitive, as that was not an insult, just wondering about how closed minded you are, which you did in fact answer.

i won't make any claims about how narrow my view is. i will say that you made an accusation and i confronted it with the evidence i had at hand.

and as far as not removing anything, the name of the thread is: overheat safety kill switch

do you think just turning off the major in game penalty for overheating is any different from removing it?

i prefer to think about this game in terms of games in general. i pull from any valid references i have. world of tanks is a common source of inspiration, because of how many similarities the 2 games share. i also use FPS on a regular basis.

this is a case where the FPS is very useful. would you remove the necessity to reload from guns in an FPS? the mechwarrior shutdown is far more forgiving than weapon reloads in most games but still serves a similar purpose. it creates random pauses throughout a fight allowing a quick decisive opponent to break a stalemate, and allowing smaller faster mechs with weaker weapons opportunities to do significant damage to more heavily armed enemies.