533 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

Leimrey, on 28 December 2012 - 10:54 AM, said:

Although I support your proposition for tonnage limits and the ability to drop with less than 8 men, I think that literally no one would ever drop undermanned, since having more skilled guys is WAY better than having bigger guns, IMO.

Actually, I know I would.

If I have 6-7 guys together, I refuse to sync drop. And I would rather drop undermanned, but maybe a little heavier, than PUG/4 Man, tbh. It does stack things against you some, potentially, but then, some of my favorite matches have been overcoming multiDisco drops where somehow our 5 man beat a cocky 8 man.

Also, the old TT Nerd in me would find it interesting to see how 4 Atlas fair agianst 8 Hunchie/Cents. Or 5-6 Heavy?Assualt dropping vs 8 Light/Mediums. Would find it even more interesting if NetCode was stable so that Lights weren't given a Superman Cape (One on One, the only time a Light should beat a heavy or assault is if the pilot is just that much better. Multi-Lights should certainly be able to wolfpack, but the current lack of collision, lagshield gives lights way more effectiveness than they should. I think the ranks of Squirrels will thin precipitously should PGI ever fix this. And hopefully we see more people leaning toward Medium to get that mix of speed with better armor and firepower.

Of course, all that is wishful thinking, predicated on IGP getting their fingers off the controls and PGI actually getting the Core Mechanics, Physics and Build/Weapon Balancing sorted.

DV McKenna, on 28 December 2012 - 10:59 AM, said:

Yea they would, it was a staple thing to do in leagues past and can work played correctly.
But i think the biggest bonus about it, is for those smaller units who don't have 8 on all the time, or have 8 and 1 has to go AFK an hour.
They can continue to play.

Also another thing that would encourage undermanned groups, is if rewards weren't individual based, but given from a rewards pools, with individual bonuses. That way the same amount of C-Bills or XP would be doled out, but smaller groups each get a bigger slice of the pie, recognizing they had to contribute more to achieve a win.

[Raven Starbinder]

In the few 8 mans that I did with my group, I saw a few instances of aimbot shoting through multiple mechs and obstacles to hit a particular target. Intentional lagging of medium mechs, even after alphas from atlas's the medium mechs had barely any damage on them. I am not stating that every group I saw was doing this but there were a couple. The gauss shot from the enemy team should have hit the hill or a mech in front of the one that got hit, but that did not happen. There is no place for hacking in this game if you want to be considered good or skilled. It is just a very poor excuse for any team to use cheating to justify winning a match.

[Alaric the Arcane]

Daekar, on 28 December 2012 - 09:28 AM, said:

Ha, if you drop 4-mans against the uber 8-man teams, they'll just drop to 3-man or regular pugging. Forcing people to be steamrolled by those against whom they have no chance is a crappy idea. It's crap for pugs, it's crap for 4-mans, and it's crap for 8-mans. Trying to force people into your target queue is not the solution, especially since they have already chosen not to play against you.

THINK ABOUT THAT. Those pugging or in 4-mans have decided it is more fun to play against others than against you. You know what that means? You're no fun to play against. Until you manage to find people who DO want to play against you, accept that it's lonely at the top, or that your tactics are such that they preclude a good fight.

Man up and learn to fight on your own or with less backup. You never know... you might learn to be a better pilot.

This is the most ridiculous and ignorant post I've read up to this point of the thread. Congratulations, sir.

There are enough 4-man channels on the community TS3 servers to drop against each other and have some good games. But, I understand. All you guys want to do is stomp through unorganized PUGs.

Yeah, sure... it's the 8 mans that need to "man up."

[Marineballer]

I made a thread really similar to that one.
We didn't find groups yesterday, too.
However we play from EU so a bit time difference to you

[Adridos]

I don't get why isn't there a simple 4 man queue. 8 man is too much for most of you and pugs who can't coordinate are too easy fro you, then dropping in teams of 4 with another group of four on your team and two groups of four against you would be far better. And completely disallow people to drop with anyone in a group besides these two numbers.

Either you're good and play with good on 8 mans, either you're medicore and just want to chill out with friends and play double 4 mans, or you're medicore, but don't want to engage in often pretty strange chatter anc choose to run pubs.

The only really bad thing about it would be the fact we split playerbase, but really, mixing these types of players doesn't do much good, either.

[IceSerpent]

The major problem with 8v8 queue is not ECM, but the fact that it's extremely difficult to keep the group going - as soon as somebody has to leave, the other 7 have to sit tight and wait for a replacement to be found...then you find a replacement and someone else has to leave 5 minutes later. PGI really dropped the ball with that "8 players or you're out of here" requirement.

[topgun505]

This.

It really blows to waste 30 minutes of 7 players time looking for an 8th and you finally get in a game ... only to have one or two drop out and you have to waste another 30 minutes searching for more. I think that alone kills 8-mans more than ECM or anything else.

For the love of God drop the 8-man requirement!

Kdogg788, on 28 December 2012 - 08:34 AM, said:

The biggest issue with 8 player games is that they REQUIRE 8 players per premade team. Say what you will about our old matchmaking system, but we could roll 5,6, or 7 players on the fly with people coming and going without worrying about putting in the effort to create a group only for someone to have to leave after one or two games.

-k

[Broceratops]

topgun505, on 28 December 2012 - 11:40 AM, said:

This.

It really blows to waste 30 minutes of 7 players time looking for an 8th and you finally get in a game ... only to have one or two drop out and you have to waste another 30 minutes searching for more. I think that alone kills 8-mans more than ECM or anything else.

For the love of God drop the 8-man requirement!

i kind of like this idea actually. its a good way to get a group going when you have 6-7 people and you should be able to maintain some control over the 1 or 2 puggies, since clearly they'll be dead without your group's support. also it might be a way to find recruits or a clan without being a jackass and spamming websites to a bunch of pugs who don't care, since you will be showing them what you do with 6 or 7 of your own people.


8 is a lot of people, I get that. The reason I never got into 3's arena let alone 5's in WoW was because its so much easier to organize and get into a rhythm with two. There needs to be a more tangible incentive to get people to play 8s. Something they can't just get by doing 4's.

Edited by Broceratops, 28 December 2012 - 11:45 AM.

[Daekar]

Alaric the Arcane, on 28 December 2012 - 11:25 AM, said:

This is the most ridiculous and ignorant post I've read up to this point of the thread. Congratulations, sir.

There are enough 4-man channels on the community TS3 servers to drop against each other and have some good games. But, I understand. All you guys want to do is stomp through unorganized PUGs.

Yeah, sure... it's the 8 mans that need to "man up."

Ignorant, is it? What part in particular is inaccurate, and which faulty information is to blame for my conclusions?

Of course there are plenty of 4-man players... and you know what? We are dropped against each other all the time. Of course, even when we aren't you could hardly call every match a stomp. Those of us who aren't good enough to excel in the 8v8s or choose to run more entertaining builds find PLENTY of competition when pugging or 4-manning. Our 4-man group got our rears handed to us PLENTY of times yesterday, because 4-mans cannot prevent a pugstomp. If your pugs are Urbanmechs, you just have to ride it out. If your pugs are good, then you can help them win, or at least lose more gracefully. Do you not pug? How can you not know this?

I'm sorry the irony of my statement about 8-manners L2P was wasted on you. What I said is sort of like what all the 8-manners said to the pugs when they were complaining about the impact of grouping on their playstyle... you get it? Irony? Nevermind... must be too advanced for you. The REALLY ironic thing is that you ACTUALLY MIGHT learn how to be better pilots in difficult situations... but pugging is beneath you, and the only skillz that matter are leet group skillz.

Edited by Daekar, 28 December 2012 - 11:47 AM.

[SlXSlXSlX]

People leave due to time contstraints, but also after their pride is dinged. If you had more people, you could replace those your finding are unfit, or replace the ones who simply have other obligations.

To those who dont like staring at ridge, using select narrow mech options etc, apparently you have never been in a clan wars type of situation like mwo will be creating. Every day for territory, and you will spend hours in training/atc preparing for that 15 minutes (unless you are goons), 13 of which are boredom, 2 of which are chaos. It can be a hell of alot of fun, and then someday you will have had your fill.

But behind that successful clan community, you will have a pubbie base of 50-80% of your ideal 20k market share. Those will be casuals, if you will create a place for them, or even a moderately fair playing field. Treat them like fodder, your call.

[Elfman]

Why o why can they just not have 4v4 I mean most of the maps are to small for proper 8v8 anyways

[SlXSlXSlX]

The opponents on this issue seem content to attack the character of posters who agree with me, again side stepping a direct intelligent debate. I must take a break. Its getting as deep in here as the snow outside, and I only have one shovel.

[Jason1138]

once we got 8 vs 8's it turned out that most 8 man teams just loved stomping pugs more than "true competition", which we all already knew anyway

[Barnaby Jones]

Adridos, on 28 December 2012 - 11:35 AM, said:

I don't get why isn't there a simple 4 man queue. 8 man is too much for most of you and pugs who can't coordinate are too easy fro you, then dropping in teams of 4 with another group of four on your team and two groups of four against you would be far better. And completely disallow people to drop with anyone in a group besides these two numbers.

Either you're good and play with good on 8 mans, either you're medicore and just want to chill out with friends and play double 4 mans, or you're medicore, but don't want to engage in often pretty strange chatter anc choose to run pubs.

The only really bad thing about it would be the fact we split playerbase, but really, mixing these types of players doesn't do much good, either.

Part of the reason for low 8man que volume is the strict requirement of 8. PGI briefly said they would allow groups of 5-7 and changed it to just 8 at the last second because of their inability to implement those partials and still segment he que from smaller groups and pugs. Segmenting the 4s from the pugs will only move the problem down the line, it wont fix it.
The retort to that is to create a solo only que and that leads us to the problem of how to fill groups of 7. So we eliminate grouos of seven and we end up with the same ****** up system again, all done to appease those who feel pugs are getting beaten by grouos too much with out a single statement of fact to support it.

[Alaric the Arcane]

Daekar, on 28 December 2012 - 11:44 AM, said:

We are dropped against each other all the time.

I don't understand. If you're dropping against other 4-mans in the same TS3 server, then why don't the 4-mans group up together and drop against each other?

[Felbombling]

Kaspirikay, on 28 December 2012 - 05:45 AM, said:

The rest were too busy telling pugs to stop crying about premades.

Logged on to give this post a +1. lmao

[Daekar]

Alaric the Arcane, on 28 December 2012 - 12:25 PM, said:

I don't understand. If you're dropping against other 4-mans in the same TS3 server, then why don't the 4-mans group up together and drop against each other?

Because then we'd be matched against the guys who are more serious and far more skilled who are hanging out in the 8-man queue. It's a skill gap and we're managing it. How hard is this, really? Add in all the other things people have been complaining about in terms of keeping together an 8-man team, and it should be obvious why it isn't happening.

[Joseph Mallan]

Teralitha, on 28 December 2012 - 10:46 AM, said:

Ive already done all there is to do. Ya dont need to tell me how to be a beta tester. Now im just sitting back waiting for results.

*mumbles to self..* do not feed the trolls....... do ...not ....feed the trolls... the trolls do not exist......

Oh... I see.. the trolls are all former NBT clanners... It all makes sense now. Yall still holding a grudge after all those years?

I have no Idea what you are mumbling about. This is my first venture into MMOs. I played the PvE MechWarrior Games, never online. If you wanna be cute, at least know who you are being cute with. Now suck it up and get your ash back on line and do your job!

Alaric the Arcane, on 28 December 2012 - 12:25 PM, said:

I don't understand. If you're dropping against other 4-mans in the same TS3 server, then why don't the 4-mans group up together and drop against each other?

Cause they aren't Murphy.

[Alaric the Arcane]

Daekar, on 28 December 2012 - 12:32 PM, said:

Because then we'd be matched against the guys who are more serious and far more skilled who are hanging out in the 8-man queue. It's a skill gap and we're managing it. How hard is this, really? Add in all the other things people have been complaining about in terms of keeping together an 8-man team, and it should be obvious why it isn't happening.

So, out of the average 200 or so players on the community TS3 server no one is doing 8-mans because it's too hard?

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Quote

]Teralitha, on 28 December 2012 - 06:46 PM, said:


Ive already done all there is to do. Ya dont need to tell me how to be a beta tester. Now im just sitting back waiting for results.

*mumbles to self..* do not feed the trolls....... do ...not ....feed the trolls... the trolls do not exist......[

Oh... I see.. the trolls are all former NBT clanners... It all makes sense now. Yall still holding a grudge after all those years?

No grudges are held against average teams, it has to have actually mattered.