24 replies to this topic

[Oxcide]

Can someone explain to me how "TAG" actually works. My understanding is that it helps LRM's and SRM's stay on target?

How long does the TAG last, it seems that it is quick to fire, so do I have to "TAG" an enemy MEch everytime before I fire off some SRM's?

Thanks

[ICEFANG13]

TAG has to be held on the target to be effective, when you see a little red diamond/crosshair thing on top of their hitbox, they are under the effects of TAG. It has some positive effects on locking on, and tightens the spread of SRMs a bit, and LRMs a lot.

There may be some confusion because of ECM. When withing 180 of an ECM mech, TAG doesn't work, you can tag ECM targets outside of that bubble, but it only lets you lock on within about 4 seconds. With the prevalence of ECM, and lack of LRMs/SSRMs, usually you're better off bringing a laser.

Oh also, it doesn't really last, it requires constant fire, it holds on a target for about half a second-second once you lose the target, but that's not usually significant.

Edited by ICEFANG13, 28 December 2012 - 08:59 AM.

[Redshift2k5]

Note that TAG does not affect SRMs.

The TAG does not stay on the target for very long, proper usage is to hold down the fire button for the TAG and keep it on the enemy for as long as you can. If you move the TAG off the enemy the TAG effect will persist for a couple of seconds but quickly disappears.

Against a typical enemy the purpose of TAG is to give a faster lock-on for LRMs and tighter LRM spread.

Against an ECM-shrouded target (if you are outside 180 meters of the ecm source) the TAG will penetrate the ECM allowing you and your allies to target that enemy (allowing for targetting and target lock data)

[ICEFANG13]

Yes it does affect SRMs slightly.

[Wrenchfarm]

ICEFANG13, on 28 December 2012 - 09:19 AM, said:

Yes it does affect SRMs slightly.

Hum, don't think so. As far as I understand SRMs are completely dumb fire, why would a lock on target designator help with that? The only thing that tightens SRM spread is Artemis.

[ICEFANG13]

I know it does, and the MWO wiki agrees with me. Its not like it turns them into a PPC round, but it does tighten them slightly.

[Krazy Kat]

The main function of TAG right now is this:
If you can see an enemy at long range and have LRM, but he has ECM, you can't target him. With TAG you can target him.

[Konril]

TAG does two things currently.

Without ECM on the field, TAG tightens the missile spread, so that more missiles are likely to hit the target. It also has the effect of making it faster for all the mechs on your team to lock on to a tagged target. Standard LRMs from anybody on your team will act like Artemis guided LRMs while someone has the target tagged. Unfortunately, actual Artemis LRM and SRM systems don't gain any actual benefit except faster lock on times.

It's probably more economical to put a TAG laser on your LRM boat somewhere than to actually use the Artemis upgrade because of this effect. Mind you, if your boat is a Catapult A1, then a self-mounted TAG isn't an option.

With ECM on the field, then TAG has a second very important effect. Mechs covered in a friendly ECM field can only be targeted less than 200m away. (Targeting works up to 800m away if not upgraded.) Given that the ECM itself jams targeting out to 180m, that makes it near impossible to lock on to ECM protected targets. Enter the TAG. The TAG laser has the effect of acting like an anti-ECM flashlight. When fired from outside of the ECM bubble, enemies hit become targetable. Therefore, they can be locked on and hit with LRMs. For the effect to work, the tag laser has to be held on target. But it works very well, and can be a nasty surprise for a Raven or Atlas who thinks his ECM is making his team immune to LRM fire.

The catch here, is that both the TAG mech and LRM mech need to be outside of enemy jamming for the whole thing to work. The TAG unit gets within 180m of a jamming mech, the TAG itself becomes jammed and useless until it gets clear of the ECM bubble. LRM launchers can also be jammed by enemy ECMs that get within 180m. Any light mech can make a missile boat's day miserable because of the 180m hard minimum on the LRMs. But a non-jammed LRM boat could possibly use his last moments to continue to fire at a distant target. However, ECM equipped lights can prevent those LRMs from being used on anybody.

Clear as mud?

[Fallout23]

Pretty dumb that tag is jammed by ECM. It's a "laser" designator. Why would it be any more jammed than a medium laser would be?

I finally gave up and made a stalker into a lrm boat last night. The tag at long distance actually paints target way better than I thought it would. Loaded up 1800 lrm's and went to town raining boring death upon people. A kill just isn't the same if you can't see the whites of their mech eyes. Last match of the night, I scored ~975 damage and logged off laughing and what a noob I still am.

For you lrm die hards out there, I mean no offense. It's just not my thing. It obviously can be a very effective tool to have on every team with proper teamwork and scouting.

[Gremlich Johns]

Fallout23, on 29 December 2012 - 09:19 AM, said:

Pretty dumb that tag is jammed by ECM. It's a "laser" designator. Why would it be any more jammed than a medium laser would be?

I have been harping on this point for some time. TAG is a target designator that uses a laser to paint a target. The Canon ECM jams anything and that it can "jam" a light ray (amongst its other capabilities) is preposterous. It is ignorant for the PGI developers to continue this farce. By ignorant, I mean uninformed, not stupid because I'm sure they are some pretty bright guys. They can make the game better by making aspects of it conform topresent day science at least and not the old, and ill-informed canon creators. Here's another point, ECM jams communications, right. I'm still using TS3 to communicate with my mates. How can ECM do all that but have no effect on point to point comms. (duh, I know why, but unless everybody is forced to use in-game voip for C3, then.....) And then there's the NARC,.....

Edited by Gremlich Johns, 29 December 2012 - 03:36 PM.

[Konril]

PGI has given us semi-guided missiles 7 years ahead ahead of their cannon release by the Free World Leauge in 3057 at standard LRM prices. Why complain?

The specifics of how the guidance system works hasn't really been talked about much officially, however one thing that is clear is that they are guided by the firing battlemech. LRMs effectively become dumb fire missiles as soon as the target-lock is lost. However, if the firing unit can re-establish the lock fast enough, those missiles are capable of turning at a sharp angle in unison to strike the unlucky target soundly. It is actually pretty interesting to see in action.

The TAG laser doesn't appear to be designed to put a dot on the target directly for the missile's sake. Those missiles don't have eyes to see the dot anyway. Instead, the whole TAG system is an ECM resistant sensor suite specifically designed to generate targeting data for the mech and his allies to use. To guide the LRMs, the data still has to pass through at least the mech's conventional targeting computer and possibly even through radio to the ally's targeting computer before the corrections can be computed and the instructions sent to the LRM. If the line of communication between mechs becomes cut, the system doesn't work.

Still clear as mud?

[Abivard]

to make the mud just a little clearer... or would it make it muddier... in either case;

Tag does work inside the 180 bubble, it just can not be transmitted to anyone else, in or outside the bubble.
LRM's will not arm under 180 meters so it is a moot point for them and streaks work differently in this instance.

[Abivard]

BTW not a thing about BT or MW really makes any sense so I wish everyone would stop trying to make logic out of it.

[ICEFANG13]

TAG doesn't work in the bubble. I know this for a fact.

[BlueTardis]

So a few questions in the "how to use" category
1) Does the enemy mech need to be in sight for it to work, or just targeted (from over a rise for example)
2) Say I have TAG on mouse1, and my LRMs on mouse2. Once I lock on, I hold down mouse1 to get the tag. Then while still holding it, then fire the lrms with mouse2? while keeping the target targeted?

[Wun]

Fallout23, on 29 December 2012 - 09:19 AM, said:

Pretty dumb that tag is jammed by ECM. It's a "laser" designator. Why would it be any more jammed than a medium laser would be?

Its not the laser that gets jammed, its the transmission from the mech with TAG to an ally that gets jammed. Its the same as when your ally is in an ECM bubble you cant see them or the enemy on the mini-map. ECM doesnt prevent them from seeing, it prevents them from sending what they see to you.

Edited by Wun, 04 January 2013 - 04:54 PM.

[Fallout23]

Wun, on 04 January 2013 - 04:53 PM, said:

Its not the laser that gets jammed, its the transmission from the mech with TAG to an ally that gets jammed. Its the same as when your ally is in an ECM bubble you cant see them or the enemy on the mini-map. ECM doesnt prevent them from seeing, it prevents them from sending what they see to you.

Why cant I tag someone outside the bubble and launch my lrm's then?

[CrashieJ]

TAG needs to be brought back down to .5 tons, putting it on a light mech is a freaking burden

[Konril]

Fallout23, on 07 January 2013 - 12:31 AM, said:

Why cant I tag someone outside the bubble and launch my lrm's then?

One of the effects of the Guardian ECM system is to completely jam the lock-on function of LRM launchers and Streak SRM launchers. If you are inside a hostile ECM bubble then you just aren't able to lock on to anything and TAG is irrelevant. You need to get clear of or have a friendly ECM counter any ECM disruption for either the TAG or the LRM system itself to actually work properly.

[Fallout23]

Ok, then why can't I tag someone outside the bubble and have a team mate lock onto it and fire? Again, what I don't get is why it messes with the ability to tag a mech. Even if ECM scrambles MY mechs homing missiles if I'm within an ECM bubble, why would it affect my tag if I shoot it outside the bubble at a target that's not within an ECM bubble? Laser designators don't communicate target location from the designator to other units. It simply lights up targets for other units to see. My ability to communicate within an ECM bubble has nothing to do with it. By your same logic, why are we able to tag a unit from outside the bubble and fire missiles at it? Once the missiles hit that ECM bubble, wouldn't they also lose communication with the mech and be a dumbfire missile from that point forward?

"When a target is marked by a designator, the beam is invisible and does not shine continuously. Instead, a series of coded pulses of laser-light are fired. These signals bounce off the target into the sky, where they are detected by the seeker on the laser guided munition"