94 replies to this topic

[hammerreborn]

Nathiel Surefire, on 28 December 2012 - 01:55 PM, said:

Best of luck, I look forward to more results!

Oh, and how often do Hunchbacks show up for you? They weren't mentioned in the mechs you've seen... or are they simply non-existent?

Somewhere between the cent and cicada. While the cent was present every match (small numbers) the hunches showed up around 1 every other match I'd say. Cent probably edges out due to being the best trial mech currently. But I think the biggest issue is that all mediums are fairly scarce. Heavies are just absolutely everywhere, followed by assaults.

This is probably due to r&r being removed, so people are just going towards the biggest baddest mechs. Also, it could be a result of the increase in stalkers, requiring a larger amount of firepower to compensate.

[Adridos]

Wizard Steve, on 28 December 2012 - 02:08 PM, said:

With all the whining and bleeting, I was expecting the trial experience to be awful. It really isn't; I'm having a lot of fun with it.

That's because the Cn9-D is the first stable level 2 trial mech we've got. Going back, only CTF-1X and K2 stand out as mechs actualy pilotable out of all triel mechs in the game, period. And don't forget the cadet bonus.

Grinding throuh trials is thankfully not what it used to be.

[One Medic Army]

Adridos, on 28 December 2012 - 04:00 PM, said:

That's because the Cn9-D is the first stable level 2 trial mech we've got. Going back, only CTF-1X and K2 stand out as mechs actualy pilotable out of all triel mechs in the game, period. And don't forget the cadet bonus.

Grinding throuh trials is thankfully not what it used to be.

The LRM+LargeLaser Awesome was actually pretty good.

[Hammertrial]

Dragon trials are now posted and addendums to the overall experience.

Mainly, more premades (possibly due to weight matching where I'm now in a heavy or because of the time period), still no ECM issues, and there are more hunchbacks than previously expected.

[Hammertrial]

And done. I hope you guys enjoyed, and maybe glean a little light from it. And hey, at least this thread wasn't a whine thread.

[Canis Arctos]

sorry to interrupt you guys

but isn´t this a little bit to weird ?

You guys realy think you can "simulate" by using trial mechs the experience of a new player ?
Why you dont simple ask ... ?
Just ask me and i will give you guys an answer. Iam not a whiner nor a major fanboi of MW:O.
But you must be out of your mind if you think you performing like a new player ?

*that was my last post in this thread if you want a real new player opinion just PM me.. iam not such a boardwritter*

so long take care and have fun

Edited by Canis Arctos, 28 December 2012 - 06:50 PM.

[Krazy Kat]

Great post. I actually read the whole thing. Here's what I noticed:

Your observations on each trial mech were accurate. Good job. I found the trial Stalker to be a beast myself, but it heats up way fast. And noobs will have a tough time with 5 weapon groups and only 2 mouse buttons.

Your Kill/Death ratio and Win/Loss ratio are still below 50%. If that's bad for you, it's way worse for new players. The next stage of matchmaking should help that.

Anyway, we need more posts like this and less QQ.

[hammerreborn]

Krazy Kat, on 28 December 2012 - 07:07 PM, said:

Great post. I actually read the whole thing. Here's what I noticed:

Your observations on each trial mech were accurate. Good job. I found the trial Stalker to be a beast myself, but it heats up way fast. And noobs will have a tough time with 5 weapon groups and only 2 mouse buttons.

Your Kill/Death ratio and Win/Loss ratio are still below 50%. If that's bad for you, it's way worse for new players. The next stage of matchmaking should help that.

Anyway, we need more posts like this and less QQ.

To be fair, my dragon K/D ratio was abysmal. The raven I went .5, .75 with the stalker, and 1.5 with the centurion. Using more tatics (as opposed to the zerg which generally ran center map) and keybinds (such as heat vision), I probably could up that stalker to at least 1, and the centurion I could probably break a 2 K/D ratio.

It's also playstyle. I'm at home in my Jenner for its speed, and having the XL engine with the Cent felt at home to me, while the plodding along Raven/Dragon (same speed), and the turtle Stalker weren't as familiar, and the Stalker was just terrible to get used to handling when something runs into short range.

Other things I noted was issues with convergance, mainly with the Dragon. Some bullets would just fly the hell everywhere and miss an Atlas humping my torso.

And my K/D ratio is .75 (not sure if that would be considered below 50%) and while my win ratio was around 40%, I think that's acceptable in a pure PUG state in a TEAM GAME using the trial below average mechs.

I really wanted to do this prior to ELO, because it wouldn't be really fair and smurflike to match myself with newer players.

Edited by hammerreborn, 28 December 2012 - 07:28 PM.

[Hammertrial]

More math calculated and added:


Other Misc. Math:
In non-prime time, premades were present in 7 out of 20 matches, prime time they were present in 12 out of 20. I'd probably suspect the true numbers to be around 9/20 and 15/20, respectively.

3 out of 40 drops were synced.

Admitted premades with the larger numbers (i.e. they existed or were a group of 4v2 or 8v4) won 12 out of the 19 games.

Conversely, the team down a member either from a DC or AFK lost 8 out of 10 times, with both those wins being on teams with premades.

Farmers, greifers, and afkers are far more of a detriment to the game than the premades. The disconnects are sometimes due to bugs, and that can't be helped at the moment except with bug fixes.

Edited by Hammertrial, 28 December 2012 - 11:26 PM.

[One Medic Army]

Hammertrial, on 28 December 2012 - 11:24 PM, said:

More math calculated and added:


Other Misc. Math:
In non-prime time, premades were present in 7 out of 20 matches, prime time they were present in 12 out of 20. I'd probably suspect the true numbers to be around 9/20 and 15/20, respectively.

3 out of 40 drops were synced.

Admitted premades with the larger numbers (i.e. they existed or were a group of 4v2 or 8v4) won 12 out of the 19 games.

Conversely, the team down a member either from a DC or AFK lost 8 out of 10 times, with both those wins being on teams with premades.

Farmers, greifers, and afkers are far more of a detriment to the game than the premades. The disconnects are sometimes due to bugs, and that can't be helped at the moment except with bug fixes.

Interesting takeaway. And yes, I've noticed that being down a man is a severe liability, premade or not.

[Bishop Steiner]

One Medic Army, on 28 December 2012 - 04:01 PM, said:

The LRM+LargeLaser Awesome was actually pretty good.

Good call. That was actually a very effective mech. Again, I would play stand off until the last LRM cleared, then use those dual larges surprisingly effectively, and relatively heat friendly. Thanks for reminding me that there is still a fun Awesome to run.

I usually found that if actually given a shot, and if a person could learn to adapt play style, about half the trial mechs in any batch were actually pretty decent.. but usually you also had 2 complete stinkers. Sadly, with double armor, and the heat issues, there IS no "good" stock Dragon. The 1N is passable, but never great. The Cn9-AL was oK (just always my least fave Centy), and the HBK-1J Hunchback was very doable, though you had to chainfire those lasers, or ride really hot. The Atlas RS was also a very viable Trial mech. When the 8Q Awesome was teh trial (When I first started in Closed Beta) it was decent, but you had the usual hit/miss wonky spread PPC camage. One match I would insta core3-4 mechs.. the next I would rip off 100 alphas, and never score any damage of note.

Out of the Light trials, so far only the Jenners were useful.

[Bishop Steiner]

Hammertrial, just wanted to say thanks for an honest, informative and interesting post. Hope to see more of these, from you and others. And you seem like the type of guy that would be a good wingman on any drop!

Cheers n Beers!

[TruePoindexter]

Thanks for your rundown on this experiment. The results are very interesting. I'm tempted to try this out myself later when I get a chance.

[hammerreborn]

Bishop Steiner, on 29 December 2012 - 12:09 AM, said:

Hammertrial, just wanted to say thanks for an honest, informative and interesting post. Hope to see more of these, from you and others. And you seem like the type of guy that would be a good wingman on any drop!

Cheers n Beers!

My next one is going to be a more detailed look at mech diversity, now that it has me interested. Maybe same number of rounds, track all my teams mechs at the start, and see which variants, mechs, and classes are played the most.

[Thirdstar]

I absolutely adore data and you good Sir are providing a metric ton and for that I will ever be thankful. I'm glad this is happening, Kudos to you.

If I could make one suggestion it would be to more closely track disconnects/AFKs. I know we have no right to ask more of you than you have already done though.

[hammerreborn]

Thirdstar, on 29 December 2012 - 05:11 AM, said:

I absolutely adore data and you good Sir are providing a metric ton and for that I will ever be thankful. I'm glad this is happening, Kudos to you.

If I could make one suggestion it would be to more closely track disconnects/AFKs. I know we have no right to ask more of you than you have already done though.

I did my best. As soon as I noted a DC/AFK I noted it. That was easy to do when it was a member of my team, much harder when it was an enemy as you don't always make it to their base to see if they have any AFKs. Pure DCs (i.e. after match starts) are the easiest to track though, as you get a message regardless of the team.

I believe my numbers are correct. There may have been one or two matches where I missed something, but I don't think the results would have changed much aside from another win (most likely by a group with a premade). In pure PUG matches, AFKs/DCs are easily the biggest indicator of success, bar none, as not a single time did the team with the DC/AFK win without requiring a premade that tilts the match in their favor by coordination.

(I also looked for 0 damage dealers, forgot to note that)

Edited by hammerreborn, 29 December 2012 - 05:23 AM.

[Thirdstar]

hammerreborn, on 29 December 2012 - 05:18 AM, said:

I did my best. As soon as I noted a DC/AFK I noted it. That was easy to do when it was a member of my team, much harder when it was an enemy as you don't always make it to their base to see if they have any AFKs. Pure DCs (i.e. after match starts) are the easiest to track though, as you get a message regardless of the team.

I believe my numbers are correct. There may have been one or two matches where I missed something, but I don't think the results would have changed much aside from another win (most likely by a group with a premade). In pure PUG matches, AFKs/DCs are easily the biggest indicator of success, bar none, as not a single time did the team with the DC/AFK win without requiring a premade that tilts the match in their favor by coordination.

Ah, I hadn't considered how you would track AFKs on the opposing teams. Good catch. as to your conclusions about AFK, that makes perfect sense.

When you shift an 8vs8 match either way even a small bit you create a domino effect that's crippling to a team. That first AFK will make the first kill that much easier and it then snowballs from there. Each subsequent kill exacerbating the effect.

[hammerreborn]

Thirdstar, on 29 December 2012 - 05:27 AM, said:

Ah, I hadn't considered how you would track AFKs on the opposing teams. Good catch. as to your conclusions about AFK, that makes perfect sense.

When you shift an 8vs8 match either way even a small bit you create a domino effect that's crippling to a team. That first AFK will make the first kill that much easier and it then snowballs from there. Each subsequent kill exacerbating the effect.

Less so the AFKs but theres also the psycological portion of it. There are many "god damnit"s, "7v8" and other negative comments when that guy drops on your team while the exact opposite occurs on the other team, knowing that they have an advantage. One team tries harder and becomes more aggressive while the other basically tosses their hands in the air and waits for the inevitable.

In my next trials as I'm not going to be to worried about my own statline at the end of the match I'll keep track of the AFKs/DCs again and try and get more numbers, as 10 games isn't a great subset. Will probably do another 40 matches, write down all the variants seen on team, and go from there. I might track premades, but likely I won't bother. Them winning around 2/3 of the time and showing up around 50-75% of time time depending on time of day seems correct.

Tracking mech varients should give some interesting data on class distribution (which I believe is heavily weighted towards heavy/assault atm) as well as ECM prevelance (which I don't think is that bad in terms of the PUG/4 man scene)

Edited by hammerreborn, 29 December 2012 - 05:36 AM.

[Thirdstar]

hammerreborn, on 29 December 2012 - 05:34 AM, said:

Less so the AFKs but theres also the psycological portion of it. There are many "god damnit"s, "7v8" and other negative comments when that guy drops on your team while the exact opposite occurs on the other team, knowing that they have an advantage. One team tries harder and becomes more aggressive while the other basically tosses their hands in the air and waits for the inevitable.

As I PUG exclusively I've personally experienced the AFK/Disconnect psychological effect. It's actually almost crushing when there's two on your team. It utterly breaks the morale of the any team. I've also been on the other end and pitied the team that loses two people because there's the better than average chance that my team will crush them. At that point I still go more aggressive because I want to end their suffering as soon as possible so that they can get into a better, less lopsided match next round.

I think on average PUG teams have gotten much better. It's quite rare that I have to explain weapon grouping and range limits to fellow PUGers these days.

[hammerreborn]

I've noticed some people who just had no clue about some things. I guy started arguing with me cause he said there was only 8 man premades, and that when finally corrected said that you couldn't group with less than 4.

In my trials I didn't notice anyone asking about weapons, though in normal experience I've seen the ppc question asked a lot. Then again, look at the million TAG threads that pop in here when it was pretty clearly stated to not work inside the bubble.

One thing I keep forgetting to note. In 40 matches not a single person took the command role. In two premades did anyone give some semblance of a plan, and in less than 10 or so did people even state "stick together" or "stay with atlas"