64 replies to this topic

[iminbagdad]

One Medic Army, on 28 December 2012 - 07:01 PM, said:

Nope, just used my medium lasers, every-time I actually managed to get him in front of me. Compensated for lag and tried to keep on target as much as possible with a Stalker's slow turn rate and low twist.
It was a one sided matchup, as Stalkers are pretty much designed to be countered by fast/maneuverable enemies.

Don't think I'm patronizing you I'm just putting this out there, If you are LRM support you don't NEED to be 1000m away from the fight, you can still stick with your team and do well just stand a little behind them and destroy whatever target they are shooting at (lot more efficient and in my opinion more "fun"). If you insist on staying 1000m back then make sure your *** is on a wall

[One Medic Army]

iminbagdad, on 28 December 2012 - 07:09 PM, said:

Don't think I'm patronizing you I'm just putting this out there, If you are LRM support you don't NEED to be 1000m away from the fight, you can still stick with your team and do well just stand a little behind them and destroy whatever target they are shooting at (lot more efficient and in my opinion more "fun"). If you insist on staying 1000m back then make sure your *** is on a wall

I was about 150-200m back from the brawlers when we spotted the enemy. They shot the raven as it went past them, and then didn't turn around and kept engaging the rest of the enemy team. Actually the right idea, since the Raven wasn't much of a danger. Just kinda stopped me from being able to do anything. *shrug* Sometimes you sacrifice yourself just keeping someone busy for the match, which is apparently what both the raven and I ended up doing.

[Sandslice]

I often do get less than 100 points of damage. Some of the reasons:

-Not finding (more accurately, not being fast enough to reach) the combat. An Awesome 8Q can only drive 55, after all.
-My penchant for finding the front arc of the enemy's main column everywhere I bother looking. If I go to kappa on RC, so did the enemy zerg. If I poke out just enough to get LOS for a shot, I've just put myself in five angry crosshairs. (Makes me wonder if I should give in and start playing a recon, sometimes.)
-My tendency to hesitate shooting if I'm aware of friendlies nearby... and especially since it's apparently the cool thing to "brawl" at Rule 34 ranges, meaning I lose several chances to shoot.
-The ECM wandering in an unexpected direction, resulting in me getting instantly tunnelled through by LRMs, like I'm the ground and they're a village of Digletts.
-The enemy ECM wandering in an expected direction, resulting in me being chewed apart by recons.

Edited by Sandslice, 28 December 2012 - 07:17 PM.

[orion0117]

iminbagdad, on 28 December 2012 - 07:09 PM, said:

"stick with your team and do well"

Very good advice. Most single player gamers don't know this. Took me a while to learn after many years of only single player games.

Edited by orion0117, 28 December 2012 - 07:19 PM.

[iminbagdad]

Sandslice, on 28 December 2012 - 07:15 PM, said:

I often do get less than 100 points of damage. Some of the reasons:

-Not finding (more accurately, not being fast enough to reach) the combat. An Awesome 8Q can only drive 55, after all.
-My penchant for finding the front arc of the enemy's main column everywhere I bother looking. If I go to kappa on RC, so did the enemy zerg. If I poke out just enough to get LOS for a shot, I've just put myself in five angry crosshairs. (Makes me wonder if I should give in and start playing a recon, sometimes.)
-My tendency to hesitate shooting if I'm aware of friendlies nearby... and especially since it's apparently the cool thing to "brawl" at Rule 34 ranges, meaning I lose several chances to shoot.
-The ECM wandering in an unexpected direction, resulting in me getting instantly tunnelled through by LRMs, like I'm the ground and they're a village of Digletts.
-The enemy ECM wandering in an expected direction, resulting in me being chewed apart by recons.

Excellent reply, thank you.

pretty much all those issues are solved by "stay with the group" except you being nice on the trigger. My advice? pull the trigger, you'll kill a lot less of your team than you think.

[Runs With Scissors]

i think a big problem is thats its hard to communicate with your team members. more than once ive followed recon mechs (im in an awsome so im a bit behind) only to find that they peeled off behind cover quick while im in the killbox of 5+ mechs. im sure my team would love to warn me but its hard to type fast and dodge the heck out of the way

[ElmoWithAGun]

orion0117, on 28 December 2012 - 07:19 PM, said:

Very good advice. Most single player gamers don't know this. Took me a while to learn after many years of only single player games.

Don't feel bad. You'd be surprised at how many multiplayer gamers don't know this either.

[Sandslice]

orion0117, on 28 December 2012 - 07:19 PM, said:

Very good advice. Most single player gamers don't know this. Took me a while to learn after many years of only single player games.

I know it in my mind. Just gotta improve my awareness of friendly positions, and avoid being drawn off - things I'm sure will come with practice.

[DocBach]

iminbagdad, on 28 December 2012 - 07:21 PM, said:

Excellent reply, thank you.

pretty much all those issues are solved by "stay with the group" except you being nice on the trigger. My advice? pull the trigger, you'll kill a lot less of your team than you think.

I've shot bagdad like, thousands of times trying to steal his kills. He hasn't died but maybe twice from it.

[Sabazial]

To all the have a go's that seem to wanna trash my response earlier in the thread: no, i usually do upwards of 400 damage per match but i've seen less able players be focused and killed before they pretty much get a chance to react.. especially new light players.

[iminbagdad]

DocBach, on 28 December 2012 - 07:41 PM, said:

I've shot bagdad like, thousands of times trying to steal his kills. He hasn't died but maybe twice from it.

very true. and the same to him.

[xRaeder]

iminbagdad, on 28 December 2012 - 06:36 PM, said:

So heres the issue. Its not the lag shield, not premades, not trial mechs. There is no loadout, no weapon, no mech EVER designed that can only do 1 point of damage before getting destroyed. Either we are getting tons of new players (a good thing) or there is a large population in this game that, sorry to say, just sucks.

I have had personal stuff going on so I have not been able to drop with my buddies and have been exclusively pugging for the past couple weeks. every single match there is at least 2 players per team that do less than 100 points of damage, in most cases WAY less. How is this possible?

I'm not talking about how leet i am or anything but there is no way in hell that someone can die without causing at least 100 points in damage.

So heres my question

If you regularly get less than 100 points of damage in a match, what are you doing?

It's called overextending and exposing yourself. I sometimes do it when I tunnel vision on a target. I suspect a lot of players get tunnel vision and just die.

Even vets like me with PUG only 3.0 K/D ratios fall victim to it (the biggest premade I've been in was 2 people including myself - and that was only like 10 games).

[Taemien]

Focus firing does happen quite a bit, even if there is not a premade present. All it takes is a slip up or simply being in the wrong place at the wrong time. It even happens to the best of us. I've gone bridge route a few times from the North base in River City to encounter an enemy heavy lance that had the same idea. Talk about an "aww sheet" moment. One notable time for me is running into 2-3 hunchbacks in a back alley on the other side of the same map in my Cataphract. Survived that one, but about shat myself.

But yeah, like the OP, I've ran solo quite a bit and premades aren't behind what causes losses. Usually its one of these things:

1. Timid teammates
2. Teammates that duel (won't focus fire)
3. Teammates that shutdown in a fight (bad weapon groupings and/or heat management)
4. Simply getting outmaneuvered (either flanked real bad, or they caught our base right before we got theirs)

Its rare, but sometimes I'll get on what appears to be a good team and we simply get outplayed. Those matches are the good ones. Thats when mechs are dropping on all sides and its a glorious battle of attrition and fighting. Those battles don't mean squat if you win or lose, you're getting a ton of points and money either way and everyone's having a good time.

Too frequently, one or more of the four reasons I said above happen. Either for my team or the enemy team. And well, if it happens to my team, we lose. Or if it happens to them, we win.

It happens in the order I listed to. There will be times where its good to rush and hit the enemy before they are setup. 1 or 2 of us do... the others don't. We get focus fired. If that doesn't happen, number 2 is checked. I try to hit the most damage peoples, but my teammates are tunnel visioning on their individual targets, while the enemy is doing what I am doing, usually on me lol. And then three... sometimes three will pull us a win, but not always. Get teammates that shut down and if the other team is smart, will focus fire the free kill. And then if none of those things happen, four happens. This could happen even if the team is smart. Its just a random chance and no bearing on skill or experience so I don't complain about it when it happens, though usually it doesn't now that repair rearm is in.

If none of those 4 things happens, we have the glorious battle I said earlier about.

But the point is, premades aren't what cause the issues. Unless of course I'm fighting premades that need 4 people to match me (I don't think I'm THAT good, though I have destroyed 4 mechs in a 5v1 before, though that isn't an EVERYDAY occurance). Besides, the devs have stated before that premades are alot less common than people state that they are. I don't have the link on hand, I'm sure someone can link it.

The problem we have is players really just don't want to admit that they are simply new. Even if a new player is a day newer than another, that one day vet is going to trounce them. This is one of those games that for every minute you play, you get smarter, better, and more aware. Losses are frustrating, but they are also educating.

If you've seen me post before, you will know that I call this the baptism by fire. We all go through it. It sucks, but its an eye opening experience and I dare say it makes us better. Sometimes we go through it more than once in our lives depending on how much of a MechWarrior drought we've had. My last one was at the end of 2009 during MWLL v 0.1.0 after not playing MechWarrior since 2003. Though I had the luxury of playing MWLL till MWO so I was not at a disadvantage.

New players simply have to tough through this phase. From what I've seen in friends who have picked up the game, its not as bad as previous titles. They get torn up in their first handful of games and then get better and better. Now they do just about as good as I do and can hold their own against the majority of players.

It is very unsportsmanlike to complain about something the other team did. Especially if you have no proof that they were premading. Founder's tags are not enough evidence.

Besides not all of us can run 8 mans. I know my group of friends is far too small to consider it. Usually we're going in as ones and twos. Sometimes threes and very rarely fours. We don't have a playing schedule that matches joining a unit and coordinating an 8 man. Half of us are going to college, the others are on night shift. Calling us the devil and saying we're ruining the game for the few matches (less than 5-10 a week) we play together is wrong. I know I'm not the only one that plays this way. Though normally when I do play it is solo.

[Riffleman]

I OFTEN get less than 100 damage in on my games. Here is a rundown of how I acomplish this:

Step 1: play a mech that you find fun, but isnt optimized for this game. My hunchback g fits this nicely. Full armor, an AC 20 and 3 medium lasers.

Step 2: Play in pugs. Your on your own, nobody is coming to save you from the 3 jenners circling you and your busted hump, which leads to step 3...

Step 3: Play a game with @$$ for hit detection, and watch as the ac 20 shells that DO hit magically do less than 20 to said light mechs. Continue to be a priority target for enemies from a combination of joke of a mech, to weak design having all your eggs in one basket hump, to being prey with blood in the water as people will usually go for the easy guaranteed kills for that feeling of satisfaction when you kill em every time.

So basically you can achieve this by playing for fun. And if the games werent full of 4 mans looking for easy games and 8 man sync droppers hideing from real competition, there would more times be another one of me on the other side, makeing it less of a handicap. This is what happens when you solo drop. Mabye when phase 3 rolls around if they manage to cut down on the cheating to get in games, or find a good home for 4 man groups in competative brackets, you will see less of this as the people not scoring 100 damage may live long enough to be credit to team.

[iminbagdad]

Riffleman, on 28 December 2012 - 09:34 PM, said:

I OFTEN get less than 100 damage in on my games. Here is a rundown of how I acomplish this:

Step 1: play a mech that you find fun, but isnt optimized for this game. My hunchback g fits this nicely. Full armor, an AC 20 and 3 medium lasers.

Step 2: Play in pugs. Your on your own, nobody is coming to save you from the 3 jenners circling you and your busted hump, which leads to step 3...

Step 3: Play a game with @$$ for hit detection, and watch as the ac 20 shells that DO hit magically do less than 20 to said light mechs. Continue to be a priority target for enemies from a combination of joke of a mech, to weak design having all your eggs in one basket hump, to being prey with blood in the water as people will usually go for the easy guaranteed kills for that feeling of satisfaction when you kill em every time.

So basically you can achieve this by playing for fun. And if the games werent full of 4 mans looking for easy games and 8 man sync droppers hideing from real competition, there would more times be another one of me on the other side, makeing it less of a handicap. This is what happens when you solo drop. Mabye when phase 3 rolls around if they manage to cut down on the cheating to get in games, or find a good home for 4 man groups in competative brackets, you will see less of this as the people not scoring 100 damage may live long enough to be credit to team.

You are the problem. I rarely run into what I can tell are 4 man premades. You purposefully take an un optimized mech into the game. Use a weapon made to punch holes in big mechs to chase after lights. And then you blame your sucky performance on premades.

your post is way to long, heres how it should read,

I, Riffleman, do not like helping out my team. I would rather play my way and refuse to change or adapt and would rather complain about "8 man sync drops".



I finally got the post I was looking for, I see this way to often, people want to play there way not play the game. Even with my -4sp I still get more than 100 damage every match.

[hammerreborn]

iminbagdad, on 28 December 2012 - 10:05 PM, said:

You are the problem. I rarely run into what I can tell are 4 man premades. You purposefully take an un optimized mech into the game. Use a weapon made to punch holes in big mechs to chase after lights. And then you blame your sucky performance on premades.

your post is way to long, heres how it should read,

I, Riffleman, do not like helping out my team. I would rather play my way and refuse to change or adapt and would rather complain about "8 man sync drops".



I finally got the post I was looking for, I see this way to often, people want to play there way not play the game. Even with my -4sp I still get more than 100 damage every match.

In my trials today I found that before 6pm on a friday it premades were about once every 3 matches. After 6pm it was more 2 out of 3 (though there would be premades on both sides of the match). In 40 matches, 3 were sync droppers, so that is clearly not as much an issue as people would like to complain about.

http://mwomercs.com/...mech-challenge/

However, having a premade was not the sole determiner of success (7 times the team with the premade (or larger in the case of both sides) lost compared to 12 wins, (63% victory for the premade) . DCs/AFKs were more likely to cost a win than having a premade (the team with the AFK/DC lost 8 times out of 10 (80%)). Both of those wins contained premades on the DCed team.

Edited by hammerreborn, 28 December 2012 - 10:23 PM.

[iminbagdad]

hammerreborn, on 28 December 2012 - 10:22 PM, said:

In my trials today I found that before 6pm on a friday it premades were about once every 3 matches. After 6pm it was more 2 out of 3 (though there would be premades on both sides of the match). In 40 matches, 3 were sync droppers, so that is clearly not as much an issue as people would like to complain about.

http://mwomercs.com/...mech-challenge/

However, having a premade was not the sole determiner of success (7 times the team with the premade (or larger in the case of both sides) lost compared to 12 wins, (63% victory for the premade) . DCs/AFKs were more likely to cost a win than having a premade (the team with the AFK/DC lost 8 times out of 10 (80%)). Both of those wins contained premades on the DCed team.

Good info. I just want to be clear, I'm not talking about winning or losing, I am talking about not doing anything in a match. How many of those games did you see someone with <100 points of damage. I have been on teams with plenty of DC's and AFK's and lost. My point is even if everyone drops, at least 2 people are sitting at less than 100 dam. What are they doing?

[hammerreborn]

iminbagdad, on 28 December 2012 - 10:29 PM, said:

Good info. I just want to be clear, I'm not talking about winning or losing, I am talking about not doing anything in a match. How many of those games did you see someone with <100 points of damage. I have been on teams with plenty of DC's and AFK's and lost. My point is even if everyone drops, at least 2 people are sitting at less than 100 dam. What are they doing?

I did less than 100 damage in some of them, but i severely ****** up in those cases. Also, some mechs just aren't prone to large chunks of damage. A guasscat for instance needs 4 shots to break 100, but each of those is far more effective than 3 rounds of LRM 20 hitting an atlas everywhere.

There are plenty of just terrible players though, and I saw a good deal of them during my tests.

[Thirdstar]

hammerreborn, on 28 December 2012 - 10:33 PM, said:

I did less than 100 damage in some of them, but i severely ****** up in those cases. Also, some mechs just aren't prone to large chunks of damage. A guasscat for instance needs 4 shots to break 100, but each of those is far more effective than 3 rounds of LRM 20 hitting an atlas everywhere.
There are plenty of just terrible players though, and I saw a good deal of them during my tests.

OP itself is flawed because it doesn't take exceptional circumstances and outright errors into consideration. Is it possible to do less than 100 damage even if you a good player in a good mech? Yes. Are there lots of unskilled players in MWO? Also yes. End of story.

Edited by Thirdstar, 28 December 2012 - 10:35 PM.

[FrostPaw]

Sometimes I'm at the top of 16 players, sometimes I'm at the bottom of 16 players. Often I'm somewhere in between. I've done over 1200 damage in a match and I've also done 7 damage, I was trying to fight in both matches.

What this tells me is that how my team and the enemy team plays has a significant influence on how I play. Because my skill level doesn't change, only the situations in which I can or cannot use my skill do.