17 replies to this topic

[Aaren Kai]

What would you think of the following changes to help out some of the balance issues we keep seeing?

SSRM: Requires a new lock after each fire. This would keep chain firing down or at least reduce the stun lock effect.

ECM: Is only effective for the mech that has it. Not an umbrella effect. This would allow for scouting and not a complete huddle around the Atlas.

AMS: First off, AMS should be able to shoot down SSRMs and SRMs. Second, the distance between the mech firing and the target increases the number of missiles being shot down. However the AMS generates heat (like machine gun levels). It only works at protecting you.

Thoughts?

[DocBach]

Streaks could be fixed like that, but they really need their spread opened up like they said will be implemented.

ECM is suppose to work as an umbrella, just not as a stealth screen for an entire team.

AMS needs to shoot at all missiles, be it LRM, streak or SRM.

[Aaren Kai]

DocBach, on 30 December 2012 - 02:45 PM, said:

ECM is suppose to work as an umbrella, just not as a stealth screen for an entire team.

Hrm maybe add that ECM, if umbrella, effects all LRMs and Streaks, Friend or Foe.

[DocBach]

Or just get rid of the lock break ECM has.

[Aegic]

I am pretty sure I have shot down SRMS with AMS.

Edited by Aegic, 30 December 2012 - 08:34 PM.

[Deathz Jester]

AMS does shoot down SRMS

[Aegic]

Iron Harlequin, on 30 December 2012 - 09:44 PM, said:

AMS does shoot down SRMS

Awesome! Case closed.

[nostra]

SSRMs are fine, I just want there to be a number higher than 2.

ECM I rather like at the moment, and don't worry, it'll be fixed once modules like the Drone shown in the original trailer (or an equivalent like Satellite Uplink or Dropship observation or something) is put up.

AMS does need a fix. I feel like as it is now, even 2 of them do almost nothing against a full LRM-20 barrage. I feel like if an AMS could shoot down say...1/5th of ever missile salvo, it might be more helpful. Therefore against an LRM-5 it shoots down 1 missile, against an LRM 20 it takes down 4, etc. I dunno, just speculating.

While on the subject, still think that autocannons need a fire rate update. Not in how long between shots is possible...just in how many rounds they shoot at once. I grew up mostly on Mechwarrior 4....when an AC/10 shot fired a five-round burst

[Lukoi Banacek]

I don't agree with OP's original SSRM suggestion personally. I don't believe there's any real imbalancing issue with them at the moment. Once/IF higher pods are introduced, this might need a relook. But with streak 2? There's no locking. You break LOS and you have to re-lock.

ECM.....hmm tricky. Definitely needs some fine tuning I believe. And additional Electronic roles need to be put into game so we can have 8v8's that don't involve 3 x 3L's and 2 DDC's every time.

AMS should shoot down the dumbfire missiles imo. Although you're still going to go home crying after the alpha of a streak-cat if he lands it,

[Deathz Jester]

nostra, on 31 December 2012 - 12:54 AM, said:

SSRMs are fine, I just want there to be a number higher than 2.

The Innersphere Streak SRM 4s and 6s dont exist yet: read

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Streak_4
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Streak_6

nostra, on 31 December 2012 - 12:54 AM, said:

ECM I rather like at the moment, and don't worry, it'll be fixed once modules like the Drone shown in the original trailer (or an equivalent like Satellite Uplink or Dropship observation or something) is put up.

lol, i just dont know where to begin.

1. That "drone" in that "trailer" was for a game they never made "Mechwarrior 5" which was going to be on Consoles & PC.
2. It was going to have a campaign
3. that trailer also has a mech that isn't allowed to be in a Mechwarrior game.
4. That trailer is from a game that doesn't exist from 2009.

nostra, on 31 December 2012 - 12:54 AM, said:

AMS does need a fix. I feel like as it is now, even 2 of them do almost nothing against a full LRM-20 barrage. I feel like if an AMS could shoot down say...1/5th of ever missile salvo, it might be more helpful. Therefore against an LRM-5 it shoots down 1 missile, against an LRM 20 it takes down 4, etc. I dunno, just speculating.

AMS does work, just not as well when you have people whoring around in Missile boats. Like a team full of stalkers using 4xLRM20s each....

nostra, on 31 December 2012 - 12:54 AM, said:

While on the subject, still think that autocannons need a fire rate update. Not in how long between shots is possible...just in how many rounds they shoot at once.

Rate of fire is how long between shots possible........

The autocannons need to fire bursts like in canon, not this single-shot crap I agree.

nostra, on 31 December 2012 - 12:54 AM, said:

I grew up mostly on Mechwarrior 4

Well there's 90% of your problem....

[nostra]

Iron Harlequin, on 31 December 2012 - 02:33 AM, said:

The Innersphere Streak SRM 4s and 6s dont exist yet: read

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Streak_4
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Streak_6



lol, i just dont know where to begin.

1. That "drone" in that "trailer" was for a game they never made "Mechwarrior 5" which was going to be on Consoles & PC.
2. It was going to have a campaign
3. that trailer also has a mech that isn't allowed to be in a Mechwarrior game.
4. That trailer is from a game that doesn't exist from 2009.





AMS does work, just not as well when you have people whoring around in Missile boats. Like a team full of stalkers using 4xLRM20s each....





Rate of fire is how long between shots possible........

The autocannons need to fire bursts like in canon, not this single-shot crap I agree.





Well there's 90% of your problem....

Sorry I thought this was a "give your opinion on the subject" thread, not "berate other people for having an opinion" thread.

The mechwarrior 5 (as you put it) trailer was a prototype for what became Mechwarrior Online. While the general timeline setting was changed, the plans for gameplay, modules (like the drone i mentioned, and the devs on here have mentioned before, just FYI) and designs are still more-or-less the same.

As for your comments on Mechwarrior 4, for its time it was an excellent mechwarrior title and extremely fun. And for that being my "problem," clearly you yourself have never read any of the Battletech novels or backstory then, because my observation regarding autocannons and their function is wholly accurate.

[Deathz Jester]

nostra, on 31 December 2012 - 02:53 AM, said:

As for your comments on Mechwarrior 4, for its time it was an excellent mechwarrior title and extremely fun. And for that being my "problem," clearly you yourself have never read any of the Battletech novels or backstory then, because my observation regarding autocannons and their function is wholly accurate.

I've read a dozen or so of the novels and still have them in paperback, and I have more in digital form. I can tell you that the novels are drastically more "colorful" in details than the games have been. Because they're stories.....they're meant to be interesting. And what the hell did that have to do with Mechwarrior4? Nor did I disagree that autocannons were suppose to fire in bursts , I actually stated that function was canon. So learn to read kid.

[Aegic]

Iron Harlequin, on 31 December 2012 - 02:33 AM, said:

Rate of fire is how long between shots possible........

The autocannons need to fire bursts like in canon, not this single-shot crap I agree.

Unless I am mistaken, an AC/20 is a classification given based off of how much damage it could do. This means that an AC/20 could do damage through multiple smaller shells fired in rapid succession or through one massive shot. It all is based off of make and manufacture.

This is taken from Sarna @ http://www.sarna.net/wiki/AC/20

Quote

Description

The Autocannon is a direct-fire ballistic weapon, firing HEAP (High-Explosive Armor-Piercing) rounds at targets either singly or in bursts.

Different manufacturers and models of autocannons have different calibers (25mm-203mm) and rates of fire. Due to this, autocannons are grouped into generic "classes" of autocannons with common damage ratings, with Autocannon/20s doing massive damage while having very short range.

An example of the rating system: the Crusher Super Heavy Cannon is a 150mm weapon firing ten shells per "round" while the Chemjet Gun is a 185mm weapon firing much slower, and causing higher damage per shell. Despite their differences, both are classified as Autocannon/20s due to their damage output.

I dont see why people keep arguing over this. It wasnt hard to find this information.

Edited by Aegic, 31 December 2012 - 06:25 AM.

[Lukoi Banacek]

Quick disclaimer, but while MWO is attempting to stay as close to TT roots as they can...balance and fun factor still weigh in here and they clearly are erring on the side of those as they TRY to get the game fully developed. To argue purely from a canon perspective kind of pigeonholes things that aren't necessarily the reality of what MWO is doing here.

[Ens]

theres nothing to be fixed on SSRM´s....

wait until the hit detection is back to normal... everyone still relying on ssrms will get screwed by ppl with aim and normal ssrms
mainly scouts...

it´s just frustrating now to compete as a non ssrm scout against any type of scout with ssrm´s.... you just have no chance


i wish back the netcode of closed beta.... screw warping mechs while knocked down... at least it was easy to hit everything
*frustrated*

[MasterBLB]

SSRMs are fine since the devs implemented they spread a bit instead always to hit CT and have reduced shake effect.Right now they are just fine weapon which doesn't require any further changes.

ECM - I'll keep repeat the 1st what should be done is to completely remove PGI additions to cannonical ECM.Then we could test and think what further changes this device requires.

AMS - well,from what I know it is capable to shoot down SSRMs,but due to system reaction time only if you're being attacked at ~200 m distance,which makes sense.

[The Mech behind you]

I don't think SSRMs are fine now. I play light mechs and I have all of them and atm you have no chance if you rely on lasers, cannons, srm vs. ssrm. It might be no difference for bigger mechs if you equip SSRMs but for smaller mechs its the difference between win and defeat.
And i tried to win with pure aiming. Everytime I got cored by a SSRM scout I said 'I just need more practise. I just have to improve my aiming skills'. After 2 Weeks of loosing vs. SSRM builds I just started to equip SSRMs myself on every mech that can carry one. Even the COM-1B is competitive now. Only because I put an SSRM on it. The damage I dealt in a battle doubled and I wasn't in the group of the worst 3 Players in that after battle report anymore.

Oh and for me that Raven 3L is the top predator atm. Mine even don't have an upgraded engine. 'Only' the ECM and the SSRMs and it's pretty easy for me to score 2 kills in a match, making it into the TOP 3 in the after battle reports. In some battles I even score 3 kills. Everytime I'm playing with my Raven 3L it's like activating God Mode. Who needs Assault Mechs if he can have such a Raven.

I also see an increased number of light mechs over the last week. Having 4-5 light mechs in a team isn't that unusual these days. Had even a fight with 5 lights on our side and even 6 lights in the other team. So... 11 / 16 mechs were lights! and 6 of them were Ravens (3L ofc). We had a big fight over a resource spot and the other team had 2 ECM-Ravens more than us so they won. 4 Ravens killed the whole 8-man team.
The other day 4 mechs (meds and heavys) tried to core a single raven. A 4 vs 1 fight and that Raven managed to kill 2 Mechs of my team and almost got a 3rd down before we got one of his legs.

Thats just my 2 C-Bills about what's wrong atm. What I observed in the battles out there.
- ECM is OP, maybe it needs some of its functions removed or just a module that can counter it (TAG)
- SSRM is OP. It's the best weapon of its size. And for light mechs its the best weapon in general
- Light Mechs are OP atm because of lagshield
- the Raven 3L benefits from all these points making it the best mech out there (till these problems get fixed)

[Ens]

Norman Kosh, on 02 January 2013 - 03:53 AM, said:

I don't think SSRMs are fine now. I play light mechs and I have all of them and atm you have no chance if you rely on lasers, cannons, srm vs. ssrm. It might be no difference for bigger mechs if you equip SSRMs but for smaller mechs its the difference between win and defeat.
And i tried to win with pure aiming. Everytime I got cored by a SSRM scout I said 'I just need more practise. I just have to improve my aiming skills'. After 2 Weeks of loosing vs. SSRM builds I just started to equip SSRMs myself on every mech that can carry one. Even the COM-1B is competitive now. Only because I put an SSRM on it. The damage I dealt in a battle doubled and I wasn't in the group of the worst 3 Players in that after battle report anymore.

but thats not because of the ssrm´s generally...

it´s because of the broken netcode that lets you hit just 10-20% of your laser hits against lights...
like i said before:
ppl with aim and light mechs that have laserbuilds instead of ssrm will rip other light apart, as it was in closed beta before