23 replies to this topic

[Gandalfrockman]

I have seen these a couple of times, and it sounds like it would be fun, but I have to ask, is it worth the trouble?
I can already tell its bloody expensive.
I basically have two questions:

Can I put them on the arms on the K2?
I know you usually cannot on account of actuators and stuff, but this looks like a potential exception since theres no lower arm actuator.
If I can I could bring an XL engine which would be great, since otherwise it becomes incredibly difficult to fit everything in.

Is this really as devastating as it seems?
at mid to close range a precise shot could theoretically insta-core light/medium mechs, two shots could dismantle anything but an atlas which may take a third.... If I understand the damage reduction on armor correctly, a clean hit with both barrels to any rear armor section is an instant coring.

Edited by Gandalfrockman, 31 December 2012 - 09:52 AM.

[Hammerfinn]

To answer your first point, no, the ballistics hardpoints are mounted in the side torsos. Thus, no XL and a tiny STD. (The Wang is literally the only mech that can arm-mount an AC20.)

To answer your second: I haven't played one, but I've played against them. They are devastating if they sneak up on you (or if you mistake them for a gauss or ppc kitty and approach them...) but they are fairly easy to outrange, extremely slow, extremely fragile, and low on ammo. Which is a good thing, since their firepower is RIDICULOUS.

Edit: Tried something out online here. Note that I am fairly slow, only have 24.5 shots, but can deal a maximum of ~2000 dmg per match. Ouch!
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...dfb81356f331a4b

Edited by Hammerfinn, 31 December 2012 - 10:13 AM.

[BertyBargo]

There was one match I was in where some dude was sporting a 2x ac20 cat. It was CRAZY. A few other boys and I served as bodyguards/distractions for this guy before he'd just walk up and CHA-DOOM! Suddenly, the target was dead. Dude wound up killing 5 fools and dealing 1.6k damage.

EDIT:
In short: Yes. Just so long as you have support and dont go wandering off by yourself.

Edited by BertyBargo, 31 December 2012 - 10:18 AM.

[Gandalfrockman]

Ok, based on the above two responses, I decided it was worth the cbills to try it.
It is DEVASTATING. but it will take some practice. to get the hang of, AC20 projectiles seem to move in slow motion.

I managed to get it a bit faster by stripping all the armor off the arms (nothing there anyway, so why bother?) and settling on 28 shells, I would like a couple more tons of ammo, but I don't think its practical.

[NRP]

One of my favorite things about this game - you can definitely rock some crazy builds! I built a 6 PPC stalker, which is totally impractical on just about every level except one - it's fun as hell to use!

[Gandalfrockman]

NRP, on 31 December 2012 - 01:16 PM, said:

One of my favorite things about this game - you can definitely rock some crazy builds! I built a 6 PPC stalker, which is totally impractical on just about every level except one - it's fun as hell to use!

NRP, on 31 December 2012 - 01:16 PM, said:

One of my favorite things about this game - you can definitely rock some crazy builds! I built a 6 PPC stalker, which is totally impractical on just about every level except one - it's fun as hell to use!

If you ever catch a light with this, It cores them even if you hit them in the side... you can go straight through an arm and take out a torso segment. If they are carrying an XL thats that.

[Araclast]

I currently field a Duel AC 20 Cat, doesnt have a lot of room to play around with the layout but its devistating on the field at the right ranges, I usually hang around the heavy assault mechs or try to sneak up around building or hill sides. The AC 20's take a lot of practice to get use to, and a bit of paitence to line up shots. Wouldent call the build broken though becasue its just as fragile as any other catapult, and I very rarely find a light mech I can land a shot on.

[De La Fresniere]

I was thinking of getting one just for the fun factor.

I'm used to a 4xLL Flame, which moves a lot faster and does almost as much damage (36 instead of 40) at almost double the range, with more accuracy and "infinite ammo" on top of it all... so I've been quite hesitant.

However, I figure the 2xAC/20 K2 would have a lot more staying power as it only generates 12 heat per 40 damage (compared to 28 heat per 36). The screen shake caused by the AC/20s also cause disruption that is hard to factor in on paper but does count for quite a bit on the battlefield. The weapons being in the side torsoes, they're probably more difficult to break as well (though once armor is stripped, crits *will* hit hit the AC/20 since it takes up almost all crit slots).

It'll cost, what, 8 million? But the K2 can do other things so even if the AC/20s don't work out too well, I can do more experiments with the mech.

[Laserkid]

A duel AC20 build is going to be more effective on the Jagermech and it will be able to mount an XL engine. The Gauss might be a bit explody right now, but the L/RT are still hard to hit on a Pult from the front and can hit the XL plus CASE. Another option is ERPPCs which of course frees you from 8 tons ammo that will need for Douple Heatsinks.

[Tarmac]

I run a hunchback HBK-4G with a AC-20 and 15 rounds of ammo. It does take some getting used to, but the AC-20 is amazing. I can see how having 2 of them would be all kinds of crazy. I've got a slot open in my mechbay, I may have to try this...

[neviu]

Ac20 is good,
If you got good aim its verry good,

But yea whitout realy good aim dont play,

I run it whit 200 engine and 10 tons of ammo,

[Lukoi Banacek]

De La Fresniere, on 31 December 2012 - 01:51 PM, said:

I was thinking of getting one just for the fun factor.

I'm used to a 4xLL Flame, which moves a lot faster and does almost as much damage (36 instead of 40) at almost double the range, with more accuracy and "infinite ammo" on top of it all... so I've been quite hesitant.

However, I figure the 2xAC/20 K2 would have a lot more staying power as it only generates 12 heat per 40 damage (compared to 28 heat per 36). The screen shake caused by the AC/20s also cause disruption that is hard to factor in on paper but does count for quite a bit on the battlefield. The weapons being in the side torsoes, they're probably more difficult to break as well (though once armor is stripped, crits *will* hit hit the AC/20 since it takes up almost all crit slots).

It'll cost, what, 8 million? But the K2 can do other things so even if the AC/20s don't work out too well, I can do more experiments with the mech.

isn't the firepower number for each mech based on its alpha strike capacity? If so, I'd say that's misleading as faster firing, lower alpha builds can often out dps other builds. I run several variants that are listed as relatively low fp to their peers but because of how they're utilized and the speed with which they fire, its never an issue.

[Pan Damonium]

Just my 2 cents...

Two days ago I finally had the $C-bills$ to buy the second of the 2 x AC/20s I needed to make this mech (which was originally why I bought the K2). Sure, the feeling of dealing that damage is...without description I enjoyed this aspect. But as the OP must know by now, the lack of speed makes you awfully vulnerable and makes it challenging to position yourself appropriately to use those mean cannons. In fact, more often than not, in PuGs I found myself either under attack from afar and unable to respond, or simply pinned down by the long range mechs...again, without the ability to give them any hassle.

Personally, I found I can actually do more damage if I:
1 - use the stock 260 engine and get back to being a mech that can maneuver a little
2 - use only 1 AC 20 (3 tons of ammo I think, cant remember)
3 - mount 2 large lasers to melt a few fools on my way to a position to bring the AC/20 to bear

Truthfully, I think it is the lack of speed alone that makes piloting the 2x AC/20 a dangerous proposition. Adding the 2 LLasers was the way I went, but it seems like there is a little room to work with here for energy weapons.

Slow might work ok for an assault mech, but the K2 can't afford to move/turn so slowly IMHO.

edit: I guess I have to add also that I am used to playing medium mechs (I have a centurion collection) and thus learned to play the game with semi-maneuverable mechs. If one is used to playing the slow assault chassis, the slow dual ac20 cat might work better for you than it did me.

Edited by Pan Damonium, 31 December 2012 - 02:51 PM.

[De La Fresniere]

Lukoi, on 31 December 2012 - 02:43 PM, said:

isn't the firepower number for each mech based on its alpha strike capacity? If so, I'd say that's misleading as faster firing, lower alpha builds can often out dps other builds. I run several variants that are listed as relatively low fp to their peers but because of how they're utilized and the speed with which they fire, its never an issue.

That's true, but given the very similar Recycle times on those two configurations and the fact that they function more or less the same way (you fire all your weapons at the same time to hit a single point), it's accurate enough to compare alphas.

Thing is, 4xLL DPS will drop as soon as the heat max is reached, but it'll be able to keep firing forever. The K2 will keep its DPS as long as it's got ammo, then it'll drop down to nothing.

But honestly... I just tried to find a decent 2xAC/20 configuration in the test lab, and it's pretty damn ugly. I can manage a 250 Engine (for all basic heat sinks and a speed of 62 km/h, which is barely acceptable), but that leaves me with only 21 shots even if I strip most of the armor from the arms and a lot from the legs.

I think I'll stick with my 4xLL, 19 DHS, 89 km/h, 400 armor Flame for a while longer...

[neviu]

Use a 200 engine for 70 shot otherwise its pretty much useless,

[Rykiel]

Keep in mind that "all or nothing" builds generally take a lot of skill to use effectively. This goes double (if not triple) for PUGs.

[Wrenchfarm]

Saw one in the wild last night, dude took my Cent's left arm off in one shot. Ran away like a frightened yuppie, came back like a big man with all my TS mates to gang stomp him.

Twin AC20s is TERRIFYING when it sneaks up on you. Not so bad when you know what you are dealing with and keep your distance/flank from sides and use their slow speed against them.

[Devil Fox]

I run a dual Ac20 Catapult, it was my money maker before the economy changes but still serves well. I use a Std245 with 5 ton of ammo for the Ac20's and 2 SL. Throw in 10DHS and you have a heat neutral machine, that has speed, armour and firepower. I tend to flank people, and usually I have a wingman who can help finish off targets off whilst AC20's cooldown. Saying that I tend to also hold bottlenecks and push them, scaring or coring larger machines (often ECM Atlas who think their better)... once a large target is dead the enemy will panic and back away leaving more open shots.

Even with the yellow screen bug twice on the machine, I can use the SL to find my crosshairs and deliver death... even topping charts or kills with no hud. I've just put up some Ac20 footage... the best thing about the build, Commando popping!

[MasterBLB]

Fellow Apostal,could you share details with us about your Cat?I propose to build it here:
http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab
then share the link

[Devil Fox]

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...6a5c889f19ee954

Everyone changes their build slightly, it's all preference.