209 replies to this topic

[MustrumRidcully]

I

BoPop, on 14 March 2013 - 04:35 AM, said:

bumped this cuz i see no difference really in ER PPC vs PPC except that ER PPC seems better hands down, it will just cost you a tad heat efficiency but at least it has way more range and zero minimum range.

doesn't make sense, the PPC should at LEAST have a slot less req. or weigh a ton less or SOMEThing. or rather the ER PPC should have the minimum range the PPC has.

right?

I consider the ER PPC too hot. Heat efficiency is important. The no-minimum range of the ER PPC is almost meaningless - at the range of the PPC's minimum range you are competing with mechs using weapons that are much more heat efficient and will allow to deal more damage in a shorter time with the ability sustain it for longer. Getting to a distance of 90m with the PPC is not that terribly hard.
I will say that the ER PPC max range is attractive. But I fear that it won't be worth the heat efficiency loss.

[Yokaiko]

MustrumRidcully, on 14 March 2013 - 04:50 AM, said:

I

I consider the ER PPC too hot. Heat efficiency is important. The no-minimum range of the ER PPC is almost meaningless - at the range of the PPC's minimum range you are competing with mechs using weapons that are much more heat efficient and will allow to deal more damage in a shorter time with the ability sustain it for longer. Getting to a distance of 90m with the PPC is not that terribly hard.
I will say that the ER PPC max range is attractive. But I fear that it won't be worth the heat efficiency loss.

Varies really. I run a pair of ER-PPCs on my Pretty Baby, in conjunction with all of the SRMs it makes the mech a threat at pretty much any range, and sports enough heatsinks to sustain fire for quite some time without over heating.

They are very very hot, but being able to hit past LRM range is pretty frigging sweet.

They drive me nutz on my -3D, likely one of the reason I can't stand that build.

Edited by Yokaiko, 14 March 2013 - 04:54 AM.

[Andross Deverow]

BerryChunks, on 01 January 2013 - 08:16 PM, said:

No no no.

Heat build up and dissipation ITSELF needs to be looked at, because stock variants CANNOT run competitively. Once that has been dealt with, if ERLL and ERPPC still have issues, then we should try to modify them.

No No No No....

The heat needs to be left where it is regarding the ER PPC, they just got done lowering it not too long ago and its fine. It follows the traditional BT lore as a hard hitting ranged energy weapon to be feared but has its achilles heel... the heat problem.
If you feel the heat needs more reduction I assume you to be a boater, of course you want it reduced so your stalker gets an added alpha... PPC are boated like mad after the last heat reduction, reducing it again will make other long range direct fire weapons more worthless.
IMHO i dont think they will tweak em any more or it will roll the balance of the game making ballistic and other direct fire range irrelevent.

Regards

[Voridan Atreides]

Fred013, on 01 January 2013 - 03:29 PM, said:

LPL is for charging up to someone and shooting them in the face, PPC's are for sniping. I see very few PPC's, and fewer LPL

Wow....really? I see PPCs everywhere! I usually only see LPLs on Awesomes or on the occasional Atlas.

[Yokaiko]

Voridan Atreides, on 14 March 2013 - 05:24 AM, said:

Wow....really? I see PPCs everywhere! I usually only see LPLs on Awesomes or on the occasional Atlas.

Yeah I have a hard time putting a LPL on a mech, I think there is on between all of my mechs.

[Deathlike]

Large Pulse Lasers need a range buff, but no more than say 360m IMO.

[Voridan Atreides]

Yokaiko, on 14 March 2013 - 05:34 AM, said:

Yeah I have a hard time putting a LPL on a mech, I think there is on between all of my mechs.

I can never seem to find a way to put them on my mechs too.

Edited by Voridan Atreides, 14 March 2013 - 06:25 AM.

[Galenit]

Deathlike, on 14 March 2013 - 05:47 AM, said:

Large Pulse Lasers need a range buff, but no more than say 360m IMO.

Range is ok, but remove 0.5 to 1 tons weight.

Edited by Galenit, 14 March 2013 - 06:27 AM.

[smokefield]

agree..LPL are too heavy for their range/heat/dmg..i prefer an erppc for the same dmg/weight/heat...

[Yokaiko]

smokefield, on 14 March 2013 - 06:48 AM, said:

agree..LPL are too heavy for their range/heat/dmg..i prefer an erppc for the same dmg/weight/heat...

Heat and damage are fine, the range for 7 tons is a deal breaker when the PPC is right there a lot of the time.

[Commander Kobold]

they should put the minimum range on the ERPPC instead of the normal PPC it makes more sense and would (sort of) give you a reason to take the normal PPC

[Aym]

Kaijin, on 01 January 2013 - 03:37 PM, said:

It's canon for the PPC to have a minimum range and for the ERPPC to have no minimum. You will find though that the Devs pick and choose when they will use canon and when they prefer not to. Example: The Gauss Rifle has a minimum range by canon, but not in MWO.

http://www.sarna.net...rojector_Cannon

http://www.sarna.net...rojector_Cannon

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Gauss_Rifle

http://www.sarna.net is your friend

Worth noting that the GR has 2/3 the min range of the PPC, and there's no lore explaination to go along with it, as there is with the PPC.

And the A/C's have minimum ranges too, but I bet you don't hate them as much as the evil gauss rifle and chose not to care that those minimum ranges aren't in the game.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

The explanation for the minimum range on the PPCs is explained by BT magic. In TT, the reason for the minimum ranges on ballistics was for balance. In reality a minimum range on ballistics is stupid since the slug starts to decelerate after leaving the barrel.

[General Taskeen]

BT Magic indeed with PPC min-range, but at least they have a piece of equipment that can turn a PPC min range on/off. At least they explain this magic.

Field Inhibitor

The FI on/off functionality does not exist in the game, or any Mech game that I can think of. If the devs really wanted to implement it, MWO would probably be the first to have it. It is basically always on right now, which causes the PPC to automatically degrade damage between 0-89m to prevent damage that a full shot would do within this range. If they made an FI 'on/off' key, they could make it so it allows the user to do full damage with the PPC, in that min-range, but doing so could cause damage to the Mech firing it or the weapon itself. Another key to press, but it would increase the simmy feel in a 'Mech.'

Otherwise they could simply get rid of the min-range altogether for it.

Edited by General Taskeen, 14 March 2013 - 07:15 AM.

[MustrumRidcully]

JohanssenJr, on 14 March 2013 - 07:03 AM, said:

The explanation for the minimum range on the PPCs is explained by BT magic. In TT, the reason for the minimum ranges on ballistics was for balance. In reality a minimum range on ballistics is stupid since the slug starts to decelerate after leaving the barrel.

One thing to consider however is how minimum range actually worked in the table top. It didn't lower your damage output. It lowered your hit rate. You could actually fire LRMs at 1 hex distance and they would deal damage... If you managed to hit with a what - 6 point penalty on a 2d6 roll?

So aside from balance, the minimum range might also have represented difficulties to aim a heavy weapon like the Gauss quickly to follow a fast moving mech..

Okay, that doesn't explain the AC/20 not having the penalty and the AC/2 having it.

[Yokaiko]

Omni 13, on 14 March 2013 - 06:55 AM, said:

they should put the minimum range on the ERPPC instead of the normal PPC it makes more sense and would (sort of) give you a reason to take the normal PPC

That is pants on head ********.

[Vodrin Thales]

Kaijin, on 01 January 2013 - 03:30 PM, said:

3 crits ERPPC full damage range 880 no minimum but 13 heat

3 crits PPC full damage range 540 minimum 90m (one or more of the Devs like Gauss Rifles better) 10 heat

2 crits LPL full damage range 300 no minimum 10 heat

Your heat numbers are out of date. ERPPC is 11 heat, PPC is 7 heat, LPL is 7.30 heat.

[Deathlike]

Galenit, on 14 March 2013 - 06:27 AM, said:

Range is ok, but remove 0.5 to 1 tons weight.

They won't change the slots and/tonnage on the weapons. So no dice.

Yokaiko, on 14 March 2013 - 06:51 AM, said:

Heat and damage are fine, the range for 7 tons is a deal breaker when the PPC is right there a lot of the time.

I guess, but on the other hand, it is easier to shoot light mechs with pulse lasers than a PPC. Then there's also hardpoint and/or slot considerations (like, CT energy weapons, or getting that one extra slot for FF).

[Vodrin Thales]

Omni 13, on 14 March 2013 - 06:55 AM, said:

they should put the minimum range on the ERPPC instead of the normal PPC it makes more sense and would (sort of) give you a reason to take the normal PPC

The reason to take the normal PPC is lower heat production that leads to much better DPS. Reason to take the ER is better range and no minimum range. My poptart uses standards because I am fast and good enough to control the range with it and the DPS is superior.

[Deathlike]

Vodrin Thales, on 14 March 2013 - 07:38 AM, said:

Your heat numbers are out of date. ERPPC is 11 heat, PPC is 7 heat, LPL is 7.30 heat.

It's 8 heat for the PPC.