26 replies to this topic

[Thundersquall]

So..im running lots of missles on my mech. I mean so many i even swapped out for a lighter but weaker engine. Added Artemis, Beagle active probe blah blah..anything you can think of to help missle lock i have just about done it (With the exception of TAG though i havent found where that is)

I spy an enemy say 500-900 meters away and let fly with the supposed rain of death that i built my mech for. Then i do it again, and again, untill someone sneaks up behind me or fries my innards like a Thanksgiving turkey.

Upon reviewing my score at the game completion screen, i typically end up with anywhere from 45 damage to 130, with 300 being my once all time high. How. Is.It.Possible.With this many missles flying from me that my damage can be lower then say 70 time and time again? Am i missing something here?

I was a pretty decent MW 3/4 mercenaries player, but coming into this game and ending the match with that amount of damage is just...lame.

[Mordin Ashe]

Current design of LRM has its flaws and it is great that you wrote your opinion. Personally I find them boring and unreliable as well and the more people expres such ideas the bigger is the chance that devs will notice this issue and do something about it.

Edited by Mordin Ashe, 03 January 2013 - 01:14 AM.

[MagicHamsta]

Because....
1) Your aim be poor.
2) It seems that you be often fire under the minimum range of LRMs (180 meters).
3) Your mech loadout be poorly designed. The tag will help your LRMs more than any other equipment (as it can be used to acquire lock on the ECM covered mechs).

[Mordin Ashe]

MagicHamsta, on 03 January 2013 - 01:34 AM, said:

Because....
1) Your aim be poor.
2) It seems that you be often fire under the minimum range of LRMs (180 meters).
3) Your mech loadout be poorly designed. The tag will help your LRMs more than any other equipment (as it can be used to acquire lock on the ECM covered mechs).

Nice advices, but not worth much. You don't need aim when firing LRMs (a huge fault in design IMHO), 180m range is a setback you can do nothing about and TAG is useless on fast moving targets, which are the biggest problem out there.
I wish they employed MW4 aiming system of LRMs. Or get inspired by MWLL, which would probably be the best. So many great ways of making LRMs work! Instead we get pseudo-FnFs. Lame for many reasons, and the more this is emphasised, the better for everyone.

[Bad Brad Keselowski]

It also depends on the map you play, River City for instance has great opportunities to cover behind buildings. Then your missiles don't hit.

Artemis only works if you have a target in line of sight. Play with termal vision to figure out which enemy is the best to shoot.

In like every 2nd game, you have an ECM Atlas on your side. Stay close to him at least at the beginning, so you are protected under the ECM bubble.

Which chassis do you pilot?

[DocSnyder]

Try Tag-Laser with your LRM. It sure doesn´t help you that much against light Mechs, But with enough LRM-Firepower you shred every Assault to pieces at the moment. I got killed nearly instantly in my Atlas by two Stalkers in the Lake at the Forrest Map. I wasn´t even able to move backwards before they killed me.

[MagicHamsta]

Mordin Ashe, on 03 January 2013 - 02:03 AM, said:

Nice advices, but not worth much. You don't need aim when firing LRMs (a huge fault in design IMHO), 180m range is a setback you can do nothing about and TAG is useless on fast moving targets, which are the biggest problem out there.
I wish they employed MW4 aiming system of LRMs. Or get inspired by MWLL, which would probably be the best. So many great ways of making LRMs work! Instead we get pseudo-FnFs. Lame for many reasons, and the more this is emphasised, the better for everyone.

True, aim technically be not really required. (You can just sweep the mouse until you get a lock.)
But with the tag, aim will definitely help increase the damage output of the mech if you can maintain the tag lock yourself (as you will also be forced to maintain LoS & know you has a valid target compared to the light mech tagging for you).
Also the fact that lock acquires faster when you actually track the reticle on the box which requires the aim rather than just missing all over the place.

As for the light mechs, tag be useful on light mechs moving ~100 kph or so at around 200 meters. (As a few missiles can still hit & tag will help said missiles hit while the range will decrease the time the pilot has to react.)
Anything faster will likely just outrun practically all the missiles.

& finally, me hope your LRM boat doesn't have only LRMs equipped unless you actually has a premade which be knowingly supporting your build.
Any mech that gets into your min range will laugh and poke you to death.

Edited by MagicHamsta, 03 January 2013 - 08:17 AM.

[nungunz]

Uhm......I know this may sound patronizing, but it has to be asked.


Are you getting missile locks before you're shooting?

[Thundersquall]

Nungunz to answer your question, yes i am always making sure to have red lock on a target before firing, then trying to maintain that lock.

I am running a catapult a1.

What is the range of the TAG lazer? And in what screen can i buy one the upgrades?

I have noticed that when i get a red lock target on someone i for some unseen reason loose it. Then moments later it is picked back up..?

Also, no i do not fire under the minimum range of LRM. If anything i try to remain between 500-900 meters away.

Edited by Thundersquall, 03 January 2013 - 09:57 AM.

[Pando]

I'll try and post a "slideshow" of 1k+ damage screenshots sometime, somewhere on these forums. I've probably obtained 300+ of them. Most of them are from running LRM boats.

[Thundersquall]

Thats really cool i would be interested to hear how you accomplish that minus what mech you use.

[Void Angel]

Mordin Ashe, on 03 January 2013 - 02:03 AM, said:

Nice advices, but not worth much. You don't need aim when firing LRMs (a huge fault in design IMHO), 180m range is a setback you can do nothing about and TAG is useless on fast moving targets, which are the biggest problem out there.
I wish they employed MW4 aiming system of LRMs. Or get inspired by MWLL, which would probably be the best. So many great ways of making LRMs work! Instead we get pseudo-FnFs. Lame for many reasons, and the more this is emphasised, the better for everyone.

LRMs aren't directly aimed, sure. But paying attention to where the target is and where your missiles are going to go is important, as is TAG.

Thundersquall, on 03 January 2013 - 09:54 AM, said:

What is the range of the TAG lazer? And in what screen can i buy one the upgrades?

I have noticed that when i get a red lock target on someone i for some unseen reason loose it. Then moments later it is picked back up..?

Also, no i do not fire under the minimum range of LRM. If anything i try to remain between 500-900 meters away.

You can find TAG under the weapons section in the 'mech lab - you'll need to select a location with an energy hardpoint for it to show up. TAG has a range of 750m, and is required equipment for anyone who doesn't want to be at the mercy of ECM.

ECM is another system which you must understand in order to be an effective missile boat. The system creates a bubble extending 180m around the equipped BattleMech. This system does several things: First, it sharply increases the time needed for a missile lock and reduces the range at which friendly 'mechs can be sensor locked (not shot at; locked onto with the R key) to 25% of normal. This makes them practically immune to missile fire unless the system is countered, because there's only a 20m difference between your minimum missile range and 25% of the normal 800m sensor lock range. The next thing it does is prevent all lock-on weapons mounted on enemy 'mechs from firing within its range (180m, if you'll recall.) ECM also prevents target information sharing by enemy 'mechs within the bubble. Finally, an ECM 'mech can turn all the above effects off and instead counter the one nearest (un-countered) ECM system that is within its 180m bubble.

The most relevant points for you to remember is that if you are being jammed by ECM, you can't fire your missiles, and that it will be nearly impossible for you to achieve missile lock without ECM - unless you're using TAG. Please take note that TAG will only work if you are not yourself being jammed by an enemy ECM.

The second thing you need to know is how missile locks work. I'm sure you're not a trained monkey or some kind of socialist, so I'll assume you've grasped the basics - put your reticle over your locked target and fire once you have a solid lock. However, there are a few other mechanics of which you should be aware. First is that in order to maintain your sensor lock, someone must be relaying the location of that target to you unless you can see the target yourself (I'm sure you've noticed that sensor information is shared among your team.) If line of sight is lost, or the enemy moves under an un-countered ECM bubble, the enemy will disappear from your team's sensors - and if you have not selected another target, your sensors will automatically re-lock once that enemy can be detected by your team once more. This is why enemy targets are disappearing and re-appearing from your sensors. Related to this point is the fact that if you lose lock while your missiles are in-flight, you can still hit your target if you can re-acquire lock before the missiles impact. This only works for the target you originally engaged.

The last thing you should take into account is cover and missile flight paths. Your missiles are going to go up high, and then come down on the target at a steep angle - but not directly from above. This means that you need to develop an awareness of where your target is on the map; and therefore whether you should bother shooting at him. I'm sure you've noticed how your missiles fly, so I'm really bringing this up to point out that zooming in and maneuvering for position matter. You're already doing better than some LRM boaters if you're trying to stay with the group and engage from ~500m out. Keep working on that theme. You want to be able to know where it's safe to move and where you'll attract too much attention as an isolated missile boat. If they see you off by yourself launching a huge swarm of "come-kill-me" flares, you'll get targeted by their light, medium, or even heavy fast attackers - and melted down into commemorative ingots.

Edited by Void Angel, 03 January 2013 - 12:25 PM.

[evilC]

TAG is not appearing in the mech lab because you have an A1 and the A1 cannot mount lasers.
See this post for a better mech to learn how to use LRMs in.
Artemis requires line of sight. If you do not have LOS on the target, it will do nothing. Hence my recommendation to try the C1 build so you can experience all appropriate mechanics (LRMs, Artemis and TAG) yourself to get a feel for how they work together.

Edited by evilC, 03 January 2013 - 01:16 PM.

[Vincent Lynch]

When I run a 2xLRM20 build, in the won games I have more than 500 damage frequently, 600 quite often. Even with neither Artemis IV, nor TAG installed on my Mech.

[evilC]

I have gotten 1,300 dmg and 5 kills whilst PUGing with the dual LRM15+Artemis+TAG build.
Speed and jumpjets to get in position quickly plus tighter bunching making more missiles hit trump the extra 10 missiles IMHO.
It is also way more fun and takes way more skill and understanding of the mechanics to play properly as opposed to a non LOS LRMer.

[Spectre999]

One good way to improve your LRM bukkake skills is to have a scout friend o teamspeak who'll report to you the details on your missile hits. The reason why you get erratic damage numbers maybe just that - some of the missiles may have stuck on the buildings, some may have missed altogether. Your friend may help you decide when to open fire for maximum effect and which LRM package to choose from.
In practice, you may find out that you are getting more consistent damage out of a LRM 15 or 10 instead of LRM 20 - from experience, unless you're hitting a slow assault in the open, most of the LRM 20 salvo gets lost.

From what I played, slow, ponderous LRM boats are a no no, unless you manage to get to an elevated position and set up a nice killzone for yourself. It's actually better to use a smaller LRM package (say LRM 10-15) and focus on speed - firing at targets at 300-500 meters, when you can see them clearly. This allows you to use TAG and get line of sight for the artemis. I've seen this combo in action and it is in fact pretty frightening.

[Karenai]

LRM are NOT fire and forget.

The only thing explaining such low numbers while shooting with lock on and keeping between 180m and 1000m is loss of target inflight or rocks.

Now, you need red lock on while firing and during the last moments of flight. Best results are when you have lock on the whole time your LRM are flying towards your target.

If you get rocks between you and your targets while your LRM are flying=no damage.

Try firing on slow targets, like Atlas, Awesome (they tend to explode fast) for maximum damage. Fast targets like Jenners give bad numbers but if you can keep the LRM raining on them, maybe you can scare them off. Commandos are prime meat, because they can be nasty if the come to you, but tend to explode fast with LRM rain.

Anticipate where the target will be moving next. If three targets are running from one piece of cover to the other, maybe target the one which will be last into cover again.

Targets within 500m are better then targets 800m away, because your LRM will travel less.
Anything within 300m should be killed with fire, untill 180m your LRM do full damage, but anyone within 300m is going to be deadly to you in the next moments, if they chose to come near you.

Do NOT stay back and LRM way from behind your troops. This only invites fast mechs to come to you.
Try to stay inside an ECM bubble or in cover right behind your group, so if yomeone wants to target you, they have to cycle targets.
If a light comes to you and your team does not engage him, run INTO your team. They will notice the enemy mech infront of them chasing the boat. (most of the time)

And the most important thing: never stop shooting, if you can hit something. Even lasers are your friend.

LRM boats can easly do 800-1600 damage per game, even on losses.

To be honest, if you are running an A1 without lasers (TAG is a laser) go with full SRM6. If you still want to LRM with it go full LRM boat, do not combine it with SRM.

Edited by Karenai, 04 January 2013 - 08:31 AM.

[Thundersquall]

Awesome community i must say thanks for the responses. I in fact tried SRm 6x6 even streak srrm2 6x6 and in the end just couldnt stomach it. But i admit i crippled my catapult when i downgraded my engine to nill. Im fascinated by missles so my next mech will be another experiement into them. But i am torn between the jump jets of a Catapult, which positioning wise could be a game changer, or the dauntless firepower of an assault.

[Mordin Ashe]

It isn't really difficult to do hundreds of damage with LRMs, even today, but the problem is that every Mech can take hundreds of damage before destroyed. Most of your damage is spread into locations where it is as good as wasted. Also, many people think LRMs are dangerous only because after the first volley all their armor starts to glow yellow. Yes, this shock effect is present, but the problem is that you can take several volleys (almost a hundred damage) before your armor animation gets worse. In my opinion people are giving LRMs a little more credit for what are they actually capable of. Right now they aren't sufficent to kill the enemy, which is OK and suitable for fire support weapons.

The best thing you can do right now is not to boat LRMs, but to take one big or two small launchers as a back-up weapon with two or three tons of ammo. LRMs aren't reliable weapon system, but still they have their use which means you should have some for cases when they rock but not boat them for cases when they are useless (maps with a lot of cover or heavy ECM environment).

[Void Angel]

Heheh. You haven't seen my buddy's missile boat Stalker. If you're a slow 'mech in the open, you're not going to be yellow after the first volley lands. Something about close to 80 missiles with Artemis just wrecks people's day.

Edited by Void Angel, 14 January 2013 - 11:08 AM.