59 replies to this topic

[Pr8Dator]

Thank you guys for voting on this poll. I think the result is sufficient to tell newbies that visit this forum that the reason they are not winning isn't in their mech builds and not to spend time and cbills unnecessarily in this area too much.

Edited by Pr8Dator, 03 January 2013 - 09:48 AM.

[SlimJim8519]

What I've seen in PUGs time and time again:

-No coordination

-People wont fill their roles designated by their mechs (Scouts not even trying to...well scout, assault mechs doing long flanking runs which should be done by light mechs - match ends them powering down, 0 dmg etc...)

-People do not inform team mates (how hard it is to write the position you / or the enemy is: "f5 2" no information what so ever

-Again, no scouting.
Really I've played my fair share on Raven, and even though there's ECM making locking into target
impossible, how hard it is to stop on some convenient spot (like ridge on the Winter City or whatever the map's name was...) and pop up the heat vision, zoom in and use Mark I sensors....YOUR EYES!

Then inform other "H2 3 heat sign". Ok, maybe there's ppl with slow writing but I have no problem doing that and although you get no locks or spotting exp or anything (maybe warm fuzzy feeling), that's still worth something: Your main force knows where the enemy is, and if you have time, they know where the enemy is headed, perhaps if there are any lights there or smthing (like that Forest Colony, you can tell team mates if there's enemy in the ocean or are they moving towards inland etc...)

These things make the match or ruin it in my opinion.

Edit: oh yeah, and focusing fire.

Edited by SlimJim8519, 03 January 2013 - 10:12 AM.

[Red squirrel]

win probability = ( number of morons in enemy team / number of morons in your team ) * ( number of ECM in your team / number of ECM in enemy team )

[Rakashan]

Joseph Mallan, on 03 January 2013 - 09:08 AM, said:

Next time you win or lose a non Cap Rush. Compare the assists the winners have v the losers. Then compare the assists the top scoring players have v the bottom 4.

I know what you're trying to highlight but you're making a mistake in your assumptions that hoses your conclusion. You only get assists if the mech you damaged dies. You get assists if a mech you damaged at any time in the match dies. That means that a Rambo who managed to hit 6 mechs with 6 shots before being cored by the combined fire gets 6 assists if his team wins with 8 kills and he gets 0 assists if he's the beginning of a fiery death for his side.

I think that the K/D ratio is probably one of the worst stats that they can publish. It encourages people DCing to protect their ratio. It is heavily weighted by the person who gets in the last shot on a mech that took 10-20 shots to kill. There are, of course, exceptions... People who work exclusively with teams, know their roles and play them. People who are actually skilled at hammering the same location on an enemy mech so that that they use far fewer shots to drop the enemy. For the majority of the community though, this is not the case.

As mentioned, damage taken and damage dealt would be better statistics but they would also "punish" the really skilled drivers who use minimal damage to drop mechs by well-placed shots and take an extreme amount of damage without losing function by torso-twisting and otherwise causing the enemy to spread damage over their mechs instead of focusing to core.

[Pr8Dator]

Rakashan, on 03 January 2013 - 10:31 AM, said:

I know what you're trying to highlight but you're making a mistake in your assumptions that hoses your conclusion. You only get assists if the mech you damaged dies. You get assists if a mech you damaged at any time in the match dies. That means that a Rambo who managed to hit 6 mechs with 6 shots before being cored by the combined fire gets 6 assists if his team wins with 8 kills and he gets 0 assists if he's the beginning of a fiery death for his side.

I think that the K/D ratio is probably one of the worst stats that they can publish. It encourages people DCing to protect their ratio. It is heavily weighted by the person who gets in the last shot on a mech that took 10-20 shots to kill. There are, of course, exceptions... People who work exclusively with teams, know their roles and play them. People who are actually skilled at hammering the same location on an enemy mech so that that they use far fewer shots to drop the enemy. For the majority of the community though, this is not the case.

As mentioned, damage taken and damage dealt would be better statistics but they would also "punish" the really skilled drivers who use minimal damage to drop mechs by well-placed shots and take an extreme amount of damage without losing function by torso-twisting and otherwise causing the enemy to spread damage over their mechs instead of focusing to core.

In other words, theres no stats that can ever accurately represent a player's skill... thats why I am concerned how ELO matchmaking is going to work in a game without player levels like MWO.

[Scryed]

But a 8 ECM mech team will trump a non ECM equipped team

[Kaldor]

Red squirrel, on 03 January 2013 - 10:18 AM, said:

win probability = ( number of morons in enemy team / number of morons in your team ) * ( number of ECM in your team / number of ECM in enemy team )

Awesome formula! And unfortunately quite true...

[JodoKaden]

Scryed, on 03 January 2013 - 10:37 AM, said:

But a 8 ECM mech team will trump a non ECM equipped team

That is simply not true. If the non ECM team is much more skilled then the ECM team the non ECM team will win. ECM's at the end of the day do two major things. Stop Streaks. And stop LRM's. The radar jaming can be overcome with a premade using VC to call out their location. While I do admit ECM's give a major advantage, they are not unbeatable. Two teams of equal skill one with ECM's one without, if they were to go up against eachother I would give a 20% point favor to the ECM team but I wouldn't say that the ECM's will always win.

[Torqueware]

JodoKaden, on 03 January 2013 - 11:00 AM, said:

That is simply not true. If the non ECM team is much more skilled then the ECM team the non ECM team will win. ECM's at the end of the day do two major things. Stop Streaks. And stop LRM's. The radar jaming can be overcome with a premade using VC to call out their location. While I do admit ECM's give a major advantage, they are not unbeatable. Two teams of equal skill one with ECM's one without, if they were to go up against eachother I would give a 20% point favor to the ECM team but I wouldn't say that the ECM's will always win.

Quote of the ******* day

[PiemasterXL]

Anything but teamwork...



TL:DR Teamwork takes the pie every time.

[Joseph Mallan]

Rakashan, on 03 January 2013 - 10:31 AM, said:

I know what you're trying to highlight but you're making a mistake in your assumptions that hoses your conclusion. You only get assists if the mech you damaged dies. You get assists if a mech you damaged at any time in the match dies. That means that a Rambo who managed to hit 6 mechs with 6 shots before being cored by the combined fire gets 6 assists if his team wins with 8 kills and he gets 0 assists if he's the beginning of a fiery death for his side.

I think that the K/D ratio is probably one of the worst stats that they can publish. It encourages people DCing to protect their ratio. It is heavily weighted by the person who gets in the last shot on a mech that took 10-20 shots to kill. There are, of course, exceptions... People who work exclusively with teams, know their roles and play them. People who are actually skilled at hammering the same location on an enemy mech so that that they use far fewer shots to drop the enemy. For the majority of the community though, this is not the case.

As mentioned, damage taken and damage dealt would be better statistics but they would also "punish" the really skilled drivers who use minimal damage to drop mechs by well-placed shots and take an extreme amount of damage without losing function by torso-twisting and otherwise causing the enemy to spread damage over their mechs instead of focusing to core.

The winning team has the kills and the assists they correlate good sir. If like in a different thread one player is doing all teh work and has little to no help that team usually loses. Look at the numbers. If a team has 5 players with more than 2 assist each that team is generally the winner over a team that has 2-3 players with one assist each.

[Grand Ayatollah Kerensky]

Being a goon is the biggest contributing factor towards victory.

[siLve00]

8 crap mechs in with avg skileld but temaplayers will always win vs 8 player who do nonsense spreadout and such stuff.

teamplay is all the way... if you meet another 8 good teamplayers the skill will decide if both sides good skilled the loadout of the mechs will decide.

( not every loadout is good for every map in MW:O atleast not in serious matches with tactics )

so..

1. teamwork
2. skill
3. mechs/outload

[Vassago Rain]

Formation.

[Biruke]

teamwork, of course. and discipline.

[Biruke]

just had a pug game. I was just walking out my D-DC. I told the guys to stay with my D-DC. the guys listened. We saw the enemy and stayed at our position. nobody on our team went Rambo. just stayed with me under ECM. The opposing LRM boats were useless. we first stomped their scouts, then heavies and assaults, coming to our position in a disorganized manner. Then we wen chasing their LRM boats. And voila - 8 to 0. Just listen to me next time )))))))

[TruePoindexter]

I'm going with faeries.

Obviously teamwork.

[BerryChunks]

There isnt a "not being terminally stupid" vote.

[Davers]

I think people are really downplaying the importance of mech builds and mech selection.

[Kraven Kor]

Davers, on 03 January 2013 - 01:22 PM, said:

I think people are really downplaying the importance of mech builds and mech selection.

In an 8-man or 4-man team, against other similarly organized teams? Yes.

But optimizing your 4/8 mechs for a unified theme, or for multiple role coverage, etc. is all part of teamwork once you get to that point.

Two groups of randoms, the guy with the best mech that knows how to use it will likely get the most kills, but the team with the most coordination will trump a single good player on the opposing team. Relative skill levels of all players has an effect as well - a brilliant general leading an army of blind rifleman won't win no matter how well he commands them.

Once you get into 4 man or 8 man, again, what mechs you have is kind of part of teamwork - the team that has a general plan so far as team composition will have an advantage over a team "bringing whatever they want." Generally speaking.