14 replies to this topic

[pseudocoder]

The suggestion is just what the topic says.

The community's two main complaints about ECM are as follows:

• ECM is too powerful (in one way or another, suggestions on how to fix abound)
  
• The 4 variants that can equip ECM are OP and it is killing diversity

You can solve one of these problems easily by making ECM available on all variants.

I floated the idea on General Discussion, and I think it was received quite well. Also a number of good points were brought up.

http://mwomercs.com/...e-on-all-mechs/

[Firewuff]

That is a horrible idea, EVERY one would carry it and make all ssrm and LRM useless. It would result in an even more unbalanced game, any missile boat chassis would rarely get used

[ObsidianSpectre]

Firewuff, on 05 January 2013 - 06:58 PM, said:

That is a horrible idea, EVERY one would carry it and make all ssrm and LRM useless. It would result in an even more unbalanced game, any missile boat chassis would rarely get used

Nonsense. If everyone would carry it given the opportunity, then that would imply that ECM is not balanced correctly, and we know that is not the case.

[Aaron45]

This guy has put so much effort in this great research about ecm origins. Watch that and read his suggestions.

http://mwomercs.com/...mation-warfare/

[Firewuff]

Obsidian, I dont know a single build that would not benefit from ECM. It's not well balanced now, opening it up to everyone on every mech would nerf any guided weapon to oblivion hence being EVEN MORE unbalanced.

[ObsidianSpectre]

Firewuff, on 05 January 2013 - 07:30 PM, said:

Obsidian, I dont know a single build that would not benefit from ECM. It's not well balanced now, opening it up to everyone on every mech would nerf any guided weapon to oblivion hence being EVEN MORE unbalanced.

That's absurd. If it were that unbalanced, then it would be unbalanced even if only a few mechs could equip it. You'd see people gravitating towards those few builds that can carry it, causing overrepresentation especially in competitive matches. Do you really think that competitive team builds are largely based around utilizing or countering ECM?

ECM is balanced, otherwise PGI would have at least given a "looking into it" in the month that it's been out. Therefore, there's no reason to artificially limit it's availability (which would be a pretty poor way to achieve balance in a game like this anyways), so I say ECMs for all!

Edited by ObsidianSpectre, 05 January 2013 - 07:52 PM.

[Renthrak]

Firewuff, on 05 January 2013 - 07:30 PM, said:

Obsidian, I dont know a single build that would not benefit from ECM. It's not well balanced now, opening it up to everyone on every mech would nerf any guided weapon to oblivion hence being EVEN MORE unbalanced.

Don't feed the troll. Much like flowers, idiots wither if they get no daylight.

If every mech could carry ECM, then every mech MUST carry ECM, or be at a massive disadvantage. ECM could use some balance work, but I think the variant restriction is working as intended. The real problem is ECM Raven + lag shield = one of the most deadly 'Mechs available. If you could kill lights by shooting them like other 'Mechs, it wouldn't be as much of a problem.

[White Bear 84]

Renthrak, on 05 January 2013 - 08:49 PM, said:

The real problem is ECM Raven + lag shield = one of the most deadly 'Mechs available. If you could kill lights by shooting them like other 'Mechs, it wouldn't be as much of a problem.

This. +1. Fix the lagshield first then see how ECM goes. Since ECM was introduced after lag was an issue, then lag should be rectified first, if by removing the lag, it still makes the raven/commando op THEN it should be reviewed..

p.s. wait until you can trip up those annoying light mechs again then see how OP their builds are

[Dark Fox]

I think it should be done like in mech commander. Very few mechs have ECM, just the Raven, Cyclops and a couple others. I think the ECM Atlas should be given the boot and the Cyclops added to the game.

[General Taskeen]

You can also vote here on what Mechs could get ECM:
[Idea][Disco] Should 'ecm' Units Better Reflect 'canon' Mechs?

Not just ECM needs to rebalanced though, but a lot of gear in general (tag/narc/ECM/+C3 if added)

[Xandralkus]

Here's a brilliant freakin' idea, guys! ECM is balanced when the following criteria are met:

• ECM is usable on all variants and chassis - FAILED. This statement is not true.
  
• ECM passes the balance test of "Can one build a mech just as good without it as one can with it?" FAILED. Every single AS7-D-DS mounts an ECM, almost without fail. The same is true of every ECM-capable variant.
  
• Guided weapons pass the balance test of "Can one do damage with guided weapons just as easily as one can with unguided weapons?" FAILED. Previously, guided weapon damage application was stupidly, laughably easy - now it is so difficult as to be impossible.
  
• ECM does not give the player or immediate allies immunity from guided ordinance. FAILED. No player deserves that much power over another.
  
• Guided ordinance platforms do not freely and limitlessly rule open spaces. PASSED. However, in previous iterations of the game, this was a whopping, resounding, deafening FAIL, and we all know that the broken state of ECM is the only reason this statement is currently true.
  
• In-game data proves the above with 5%-25% of players using ECM once anyone can freely mount and use it.

In a nutshell, arbitrary restriction of loadout options defeat the entire purpose of having a mechlab. If ECM is so OP that it is only available on a very narrow sliver of mechs, then that very fact alone tells us that there is an apocalyptically massive game imbalance. Perhaps even more importantly than that, it infringes on the most sacred of territory - the capability of the player to freely and openly choose their loadout.


NEWSFLASH: We already have fantastic mechanics for balancing what loadouts one can bring: Tonnage and criticals. ECM is nothing special - it is just another component, no different from CASE, or a heat sink, or an engine. The very fact that it deviates from this as its primary mechanic of limitation is proof in and of itself that ECM is balance is royally screwed up.

Edited by Xandralkus, 06 January 2013 - 12:41 AM.

[Warlune]

Horrible idea

[shotokan5]

On every Mech? Were did that come from the X- Files. Little joke take on offence.

[Davers]

The simple fact is that almost every ECM post is really a 'bad netcode' post. I don't think anyone is really complaining about Atlases running ECM. It is all about invulnerable fast mechs running amok. It's the fact that 'OP' streaks are still very much in game, but you have to pay the 'ECM tax' to use them.

Even when my own teammates say "Raven 3L? I LOVE that mech!!!!" I sigh and mutter under my breath "I bet you do."

[Adrienne Vorton]

one hundred percent and with all my possible energy NO...

i still am and always will be saying that there is already TOO MANY mechs capable of ECM... Raven and maybe the Commando variant would have been enough in my eyes...

ECM really should be something that takes a decission, weither to take one of those mechs or not...
it shouldn´t be a piece for all mechs on the field... THAT would kill diversity...

i am still running my phract 90% of the time, and ECM is not that much of a problem as most people here make of it... the largest problem is: most people THINK that they NEED it, that´s why there are too many ECM´s on the fields right now...

Davers, on 06 January 2013 - 07:16 PM, said:

It is all about invulnerable fast mechs running amok.

which is just not true...maybe for some, but especially commandos and ravens are hittable pretty well with almost every weapon....

Quote

It's the fact that 'OP' streaks are still very much in game, but you have to pay the 'ECM tax' to use them.

my laser/ ssrm cataphract works pretty well with tag... you just need to know how to use it...
sure, there are situations when i can´t just get out of the ECM, but then i have to deal with it... and maybe aim manually^^ i quote myself from other threads...

ME said:

it´s a challenge

Edited by Adrienne Vorton, 06 January 2013 - 11:35 PM.