36 replies to this topic

[twibs]

MaddMaxx, on 04 January 2013 - 12:27 PM, said:

It is FREE to PLAY. If you spent money and did not understand what F2P meant, it is not the Developers problem. Just because you decided to spend some RL monies does not, by some miracle, entitle you to something "special", be it some form of recognition that you spent said money or some internal need to have others know that you are special to have spent said monies.

We are ALL customers. Those who wish to pay can do so and not assume that doing so, or should anyways, somehow link that with some perverse desire that they deserve something special.

That "Special" thing you think you deserve, it is whatever you bought with your converted cash...

Common customer support is 'something special'? Somehow every other game I know has managed to put up a respectable show when they actually launched into 'open beta'.

To me the fact that there will be no more wipes even though this is 'open beta' sounds like they ran out of ideas for the closed beta, but wanted to motivate the people to keep testing and playing. Sure it worked, but the novelty is once again soon running out.

I wonder how we even got to this point, since I never said that I wanted 'special treatment' or even that I was regretting the money spent, I merely said that I would've expected little better performance from PGI since they are now taking money for this.

Edited by twibs, 04 January 2013 - 02:58 PM.

[Jetfire]

Comparing to Planetside 2 is pretty unfair... I mean budgets and team size mean something. PGI has only in the last few months been able to hire additional talent. You can complain about OB being an excuse to sell an unfinished game, but it was that or just not make it at all. Not that many investors lining up to fund a Mechwarrior game, just a handful of customers with a few million. I mean SWOTOR was $100 million to develop... I bet the MWO team has spent less than $3 million so far, for that money I'd say it is progressing nicely.

Edited by Jetfire, 04 January 2013 - 04:06 PM.

[Theevenger]

MustrumRidcully, on 04 January 2013 - 11:33 AM, said:

The lack of progression is an interesting point. I don't like grind, but I must say, just doing the same thing over and over without any meaningful changes does still feel pointless and provides no real motivation. Yes, an individual match can be fun, tinkering can be fun - but in the end, there is nothing that moves forward. There is neither a story that advances, nor a feeling that the character advances. I usually need both in my games to feel happy.

You know, we all played Halo when it came out for a hell of a long time, and there was no progression there. How well you did was dependant only on your skill and your team. And it was a lot of fun. A need for progression means we have to be grinding, which is quite frankly why I quit WoW years ago.

[Buck Cake]

The way they did EXP, modules and unlocks is limiting from a design perspective. It limits implementation of mechs with less than 3 variants. It forces the modellers to make 3 versions of every new mech. It triples the work of game designers, as each of the variants need to be both usable in game and not OP.

[Faldrin]

As to the mech progression here is the thing what we have now is pretty much the basic of the basic mech types. Over the next year or 2 some of the mechs that will pop out will be monsters compared to the ones we have now. I kinda like the way we can get 1 or 2 of the mech's easy enough to start of with.

http://www.sarna.net...re_Wolf_(Daishi) yes I know its a clan mech but still this is 3 times the cost of the atlas

http://www.sarna.net...las_(BattleMech)

Or even a

http://www.sarna.net...sus_(BattleMech) Yes I want one of these.

These are the advancement system in this game. Hunchies, atlas and all the others we have now was pretty common to the point every faction had a lot of them. So they was easy to get.


The mech lab is a big seller for this game as well.

[themoob]

WoT's tier system is one of the things that made me stop playing it, and one of the reasons why I love MWO.

MWO doesn't have much progression at the moment, but they're still adding things in. And I much prefer the "pick your own path" of progression that MWO offers. WoT's tier system just ends up in most games with half of each team being free XP for the other team anyway since they can be 3-4 tiers lower than the top tanks and be effectively useless.

[krash27]

twibs, on 04 January 2013 - 10:31 AM, said:

Me

First a short closure where I'm coming from. I played 2 years WoT with rather solid dedication (and premium time) so the genre jump was rather small. Both are the 'slow fight' genre with more emphasis on strategy and not your own ADHD complex. Bare with me as I make several comparisons to WoT.

As to the MW franchise, I think I once played the 3rd, but can't remember, so not a fan. I have never played the TT and don't care if things are canon or not.

I have no problem spending some money on thins I like, and I like MW:O. It's my most played game at the moment. Not regretting the money spent, but any further purchases may be hard to justify. Lucky for me I don't need to in order to keep playing, and here is the first problem PGI made themselves, but more of that in detail bit later.

TL;DR: I'm a great dude. *grin*

Progression

What progression you might ask. So do I. With each mech available straight from the start, I merely need to choose one and it seems I'm at the end of that road. The three chassis obligation to progress to elite and master skills is a weak attempt to prolong the road, which is still very very short.

The skills are all the same and simple % change is not really noticeable in the game, other than that slight feel you get. There is nothing exciting to unlock, nothing to really look forward to as C-Bills are too general and can be used for any goal.

It's bit like if you'd gotten 100k XP in WoT with KT and then decided to use it to unlock IS-8 instead of the E-75 that's next on the line. There are no long term goals in MW:O, which are important to the more dedicated players like me.

TL;DR: More like WoT would've been better, pick chassis and play it, unlock the next variant until at the end of that road there sits some slightly better, more hard points, more module slots, perhaps even bit better mobility. I'm sure there was some progression road with the chassises in canon. Variety to skills or even making it so that you could only pick 4/8 would also help.


Random matches

Oh my how wrong they went here. In WoT you are allowed to bring 3-man team to a 15vs15 match and it's still sometimes enough to dominate the field. Here 4-man in 8vs8 is 95% victory. Been there, done that.

Slap in the fact that you can do even less alone in MW:O than WoT, further emphasizing the teamwork. Excluding the lights and their lagshield and the horrible convergence of ballistics.

Finish it with minimal choice of maps and one game mode, I'm surprised it's as fun as it is. I say one game mode since we have 'assault' and 'assault with 5 bases'.

And why do people keep playing? Because in that one match you did something spectacular, leaving you that fun feeling and you're hopinf the next match would be the same. If posible I never play alone, since it's plain suicide watching the unorganized team walking around like headless chickens. I expect the ELO to make soloing even worse for us who play mostly in teams but now and then do solo drops. We're sure to fill the gaps of the noob teams against the 4-man team. Oh the woe.

TL;DR: The incoming 12vs12 are desperately needed to randoms as are more and bigger maps, also dropping team size to 3 would be more than welcome change to bring more balanced matches, how ever much I too enjoy pug-stomping in 4-man. And no, I don't care that 'lance' is 4-man. It's a PUG, not a clan war.


Economy

As the progression is none extistent, there is little to no incentive to keep the premium time running for more than 2-3 moths, so PGI tried some moneygrab with the christmas items. New year set was bit more sane.

The premium time price and garace slots are same as in WoT, and I honestly don't know if it's just lazyness or trying to make use WoTters feel comfortable.

Also buying each variant with MC is bit tricky as ultimately it makes progression even shorter, getting quick gratifiction but ultimately shooting PGI in their own leg.

the 'Hero' mechs are quite nice and I have no problem with them or their pricing. Ilya is quite fun to play.

Camos feel tad expensive, as the nature of this game is to finish one chassis and move to next.

TL;DR: It feels like PGI wants our money now and they'll see what comes later. I certainly am not very convinced of their future. dedicated players gather all chassises, XL engines and loads of weapons in short time, and the F2P players are still not going to spend a dime, leaving playerbase which either don't need to or don't want to spend money to the game.


Patching

Not very convincing. It just feels like they don't have any internal testing (LRM fiascco) or either their little own ideas how things will work in FUTURE (ECM thingy). For me it seems weird to release equipment without implementing all the factors that should balance it out. (PPC? BAP?)

It's bit like giving us all scissors, and then patching in the rock and saying 'Oh ya, paper is coming in 2-3 months, have fun and please give us feed back'. Well what you could do is at least acknowledge that feedback.

So far I have not seen a game where the developers would've had even decent communication with their community, making me confused. Sure there are the trollers and QQers, calling them all kinds of nasty things but they are just frustrating the rest of the playerbase by not sharing their thoughs and ideas. I won't get to ECM that deeply, but simply stating their thoughs here, whether it be 'working as intended, with some explanation' or 'other methods are coming, again with some explanation', would calm many players.

TL;DR: Doesn't leave very professional image. Communication with playerbase could certainly use improvement, but it seems to be problem with all online game companies.


Open Beta

The favorite term of any game developer. The term to justify selling unfinished product. This game got out way too early. The crashes and lack of functionalities are baffling and only with the few latest patches and mostly stabilizing the mechlab have they achieved the minimal acceptability.

TL;DR: I'd say the current state + 2 maps - ECM would be acceptable state to start open beta. It didn't do very good to their imago and that damage has already been done.


MechLab

It's not all negative. At the moment there is one reason I keep playing this game, and it's the MechLab. The level of customization is just incredible. I've spent more hours of thinking how I should fit my mechs than actually playing some other games that I've bought.

Sure the weapon balance is not perfect, but it's just tweaking the numbers. Getting it even this balance is almost miracle.

Sure I can do some really stupid fits or even no weapons at all, but without that freedom so much more would be lost too. I thank the PGI for the trust that they place in the players as now we have true variety, and not just carbon copies of each variant.

TL;DR: I love it.

TL;DR of TL;DRs: Lack of progression is hurting this game, but MechLab is keeping it afloat, for now. General image isn't very professional. (And I still am a great dude.)

CW is the preogression when implemented

[xRaeder]

EJT, on 04 January 2013 - 11:39 AM, said:

Community Warfare is on the roadmap to address your long term needs.

You're funny. The devs haven't talked about it since August 2012. Even the August information we have is rather sparse. They initially promised it would be out 90 days after launch. Well... either Open Beta = Launch... and we can expect it in February... or the game hasn't launched yet and we have a year plus to wait.

Either way I won't be playing this game very much longer. It is boring and I don't think even a six month break from the game will bring enough interesting things.

krash27, on 04 January 2013 - 05:21 PM, said:

CW is the preogression when implemented

They haven't talked about it since August. Until they do it is a vapor feature.

[twibs]

themoob, on 04 January 2013 - 05:02 PM, said:

WoT's tier system is one of the things that made me stop playing it, and one of the reasons why I love MWO.

MWO doesn't have much progression at the moment, but they're still adding things in. And I much prefer the "pick your own path" of progression that MWO offers. WoT's tier system just ends up in most games with half of each team being free XP for the other team anyway since they can be 3-4 tiers lower than the top tanks and be effectively useless.

And for me it's one reason I kept going at it for two years. I never felt it was limiting me, I'm not supposed to engage the big baddies all alone, there was always something to do. Tier 4 may the only exception since those are really the bottom feeders, but you could be past that in no time.

Yes MW:Os pick your path is fun, but in long term motivation it's lacking and there lies PGIs problem to keep the players invested.

[Heinreich]

For me the progression here would be the collection of mechs. "You gotta catch em all" and all that jazz. I like the fact that the current levelling system in place still puts emphasis on player skill and not the number of unlocks you have. Given the same mech and loadout, a great pilot with no unlocks would still win over a bad pilot will full unlocks. A great pilot will still most likely win in a stock mech vs a bad pilot in a pimped out one.

As F2P games go, I would rather have them follow the TF2 model where all the things you buy are either ornamental or sidegrades for the most part. Its not P2W or grind to win.

[Asmudius Heng]

Progression is not a terrible mechanic as long as it feel like it has meaning and is not about POWER.

Progression as it is gets you better stuff. Thats a problem in a multiplayer game in my opinion.

Progression as a player is often simply about recognition of acheivement that does not give you a bonus apart from bragging rights. Your progression as a player is also about your own skills in different ROLE ni the battlefield. Mastering them all, not unlocking them.

Unlocking things does allow people to ease into a game and feel rewarded but those unlocks should be about OPTIONS and SIDEGRADES not UPGRADES.

MWO is terrible at all of this though. They pay lip service about role warfare without really defining it or adding stuff into the game to aid it. Chocie of weapons and mechs adds a little to this but nothing seemed geared to particular roles except the promise of all these amazing modules that might do it. Except the equipment and modules and skills and even features in the game hardly give anything but a base amount of roles and nothign terribly deep apart from how you build your mech - which is always awesome but its not enough to have defined roles like say - COMMANDING - or better tools for scouts to be better scouts etc ... ranty rant rant - so much mroe they could do.

As for upgrades - BT and TT was all abuot them as tech got better so it applies here but is going to be very problematic until they have a working system that says an expensive mech in game - not meta game - is not just better to take.

all the things to make a balanced game that has meaningful progression on many fronts is not there yet and I fear will NEVER be there.

[MustrumRidcully]

Modules could be perfect for the purpose, but the current modules are so ... bland. +15 % capture boost? +x % sensor range?

Boring.

I was hoping for Unmanned Drones, Artillery Strikes, Multi-Targeting Shares, interesting tactical abilities with meaningful choices. But this is... meh.

[Lupin]

I keep making this point in the hope that it will sink in, give us a reason to play beyond just mindless killing Mechs.

Role warfare and Community Warfare was one of the BIG selling points for this game and seems to have been lost in the mix. At the moment it is nothing special.

Me I'm down to playing every now and then, checking in every time patch is releases to see what they have broken,fixed or added. Living in hope they will get there act together.

Edited by Lupin, 05 January 2013 - 04:15 AM.

[Chief Justice]

@OP

I suggest you play something else until there is some more content in MWO.
At the moment there are only 3 maps and essentially one game mode.
Mindless deathmatch in very small maps.

Its only fun if you like to play the same thing over and over again.
You can't even make your own team at the moment.

For a game that's in development since 2009 i'm very disappointed what PGI has to show for themselves.
A small team and beta etc. can only excuse so much.

I will take my leave, take a look at WOT and come back in a year to see what has happened until then.
I hope the game still exists in 12 Month.

To everyone else:

Have fun people, have a lot of good matches, and i hope you get your CW before summer.

See ya in 12 month..

[Grand Ayatollah Kerensky]

I have 35m cbills, and I've mastered all the variants I want, and now I'm just waiting for PGI to give me something I want to spend cbills on so that I have a reason to buy premium.

[twibs]

Narcisoldier, on 05 January 2013 - 04:08 AM, said:

I have 35m cbills, and I've mastered all the variants I want, and now I'm just waiting for PGI to give me something I want to spend cbills on so that I have a reason to buy premium.

This is my whole post in a nut shell. Allthough I'm not yet quite there, nor I have that much spare C-Bills.

It's not just about you and what you find fun, but also how can this game keep making money to support itself. PGI is no charity center, they have to eat too and the cold fact is that money runs this world, not our fandom to the BT franchise.

[SlXSlXSlX]

Nice to hear a fellow WoTer echoing some of my own sentiments...

Anyone that thinks the bottom half of the stack in WoT is fodder for the top half, was doing it wrong. Funny you concluded the teams need dropped to 3 as well.... surprised you weren't flamed worse. Imagine a comparable wot situation, a 7 to 8 man platoon... 7 or 8 T110s packing up focusing fire... versus randoms..

All the hotkeys and voice software in the world wouldn't save em.