25 replies to this topic

[ztac]

Not sure this kind of system would be viable for new players (not having many mechs to choose), and as for balancing there are a great deal of faults with the way weapons are balanced , But the biggest fault is with the actual matchmaker itself. Actual group balancing for starters needs to be done , i.e. don't allow pre-made teams to be in matches with pick up groups would be a start , every match I've been in virtually has had pre-made teams in it. The difference is also very apparent in the fact that you see 'advanced players' mixed in with new player . Which certainly gives them an advantage . If PGI actually fixed the matchmaker then the weapon balances may not seem so bad. The system suggested will benefit people that are aware of / or understand it, however your every day normal player would probably not even be aware of any such system and would be at a disadvantage . As it is the best players are already at a huge advantage in this games , and as with all games of this type the gap between the best and worst is only widening . With the proposed system this gap will only get wider!

[Prezimonto]

I like the sentiment of the idea.

In principle I think you'd need something like a stock battle value for each mech that get's adjusted small amounts from center for it's equipment and usage and rarity (of both mechs in total and equipment in total).

Say a cicada 3C is 40 points stock, but is a common mech and isn't used very much: common (-4BV for common and -2BV under used)
BV modifer: -6

medium lasers lasers are highly used but also common equipment and these factors should of set each other.
now... put an XL engine 255, endo, double HS, and a gauss rifle in the mech
XL engines are rare and highly sought after BV+ engine size * 0.01 for rarity and + engine size *0.01 for usage this week
BV modifier: +5.1
endo steel: rare and highly used/sought after: mech tonnage * 0.01 for rarity and 0.01 for usage
BV modifier: +0.8
ferror fibrous: rare, but not as highly used this week (no modifers up or down): mech tonnage * 0.1 for rarity
BV modifer: +0.4
Gauss rifle is both rare and popular: rare (+1 BV) and popular (+1 BV)
BV modifer: +2
medium laser is common (-0.1 BV) and highly used ((+0.1BV)
BV modifer: +0

Total BV on a tricked out Cicada 3C 42.3 BV (round down probably)

now supposed you decided to carry only 4 machine guns, a medium laser a big standard engine(looks like 285 fits):
mech: -6
machine guns x4: common/underused -0.1/-0.1 x4:
BV: -0.8
medium laser:
BV: -0
standard 285: common engine, underused: -2, -2
total mech BV:
29.2


about the BV of a 30ton mech.. but with the loadout of a flea or locust or spider 5k... it's not a good mech(reflected in usage stats) so its BV goes down.

Obviously, the numbers here mean little, but I could get behind a system like this.

For people worried about BV modifier you could display all of that on your current mech with it's current BV. You could easily have a tab to go to see highly under/over values items and mechs of the week and how things are trending. That would give players a quick and dirty place to see what to look at without needing a constant and comprehensive set up updates.

This type of a system could also easily be used to put penalties in game on the upgrades, which have been sorely needed. I love that.

Edited by Prezimonto, 02 August 2013 - 06:49 AM.

[Prezimonto]

As a bump some thoughts from another thread:

Every one of your mechs and equipment get a BV rating in the bottom left corner, mouse over to get a tool tip break down pop up that shows how this value was found, and shows a comparable item of lower BV(so it's easy to find equipment/mechs to bring your BV down) and a comparable mech in terms of BV. Make the BV value be colored off a heat map: white is neutral BV for the mech and probably based on a non-terrible stock variant without upgrades, or with minimal upgrades. If you're mech/item has lower than average BV it's color shading going into light blue and gets steadily darker, while if the BV is over inflated it gets steadily brighter into the reds.

By color coding it you can at a glance tell how you'll rate in the drop.

So lets say you've got a tricked out Cicada 3M now.. it's BV is shows bright red due to upgrades/ECM/popularity... when you mouse over the value it pops up that you're going to be ranked as being matched against a stock Dragon... a mech 20 tons heavier than you. Next to that is shows the Cicada 3C chassis which is currently blue and under valued, suggesting a better fit but similar chassis to lower your BV.

[Hotthedd]

This is a fantastic idea, however I have one concern about "gaming" the system.

Let's say I have 15 mechs, but only 2 or 3 that I run in competitive 12-man matches. I could regularly run the other 12 mechs with low MW:O B.V. ratings to artificially inflate the B.V. of certain weapons, (or lower the B.V. of other weapons).

Of course I realize that one person will have little overall effect, but a large enough, organized group WOULD have the ability to effect one or two specific weapons, giving them an advantage in CW.

[aniviron]

This has been tried in other games before, most notably Counter Strike: Source. Every time it happens, it turns out that players just ignore the economy and keep bringing the best weapons anyway. The cs:s experiment went so badly that the test was discontinued when several of the most popular weapons were slated to become so expensive in the next week that they would have actually been impossible to buy.

The lesson to learn from this is that if a gun is better than the others to the point that it makes you win fights you otherwise would not win, nobody is going to stop using it because it is expensive; conversely, nobody takes the worthless weapons, because even though they cost very little money, you're still going to lose if you take them, so why bother?

[Sprouticus]

aniviron, on 20 August 2013 - 07:11 AM, said:

This has been tried in other games before, most notably Counter Strike: Source. Every time it happens, it turns out that players just ignore the economy and keep bringing the best weapons anyway. The cs:s experiment went so badly that the test was discontinued when several of the most popular weapons were slated to become so expensive in the next week that they would have actually been impossible to buy.

The lesson to learn from this is that if a gun is better than the others to the point that it makes you win fights you otherwise would not win, nobody is going to stop using it because it is expensive; conversely, nobody takes the worthless weapons, because even though they cost very little money, you're still going to lose if you take them, so why bother?

Then they stopped the experiment too early.


This system WOULD work. Sure, people would still bring FOTM mechs a lot. And here is how it could be fixed

1) In pug games, match up the FOTM mechs against other FOTM mechs. The point is to make sure that the teams are even for pug's, not to encourage diversity.

2) In pug games, once weight limits are implemented, you replace weight limits with BV. It is basically the same system, and while that system has issues (a few people using up all the tonnage/BV), there are ways to fix those issues.

3) Assuming 12 man queue goes away, and group integration takes place, you set a BV limit based upon the gorup BEFORE they drop. So let's say the limit is 1200 BV for 12 players. For a 6 man group, they have to be below 600 BV before they can launch. again, a similar system can be in place for tonnage, but BV would be more accurate.