25 replies to this topic

[Skulll Leader]

Will there actually be map objectives or will it be a constant log in and just kill each other? No that I mind the mech matches but it would be nice to add some meat and potatoes to the game like controlling planets and things to that nature.

[xRaeder]

LockOn68, on 04 January 2013 - 05:26 PM, said:

Will there actually be map objectives or will it be a constant log in and just kill each other? No that I mind the mech matches but it would be nice to add some meat and potatoes to the game like controlling planets and things to that nature.

The nerfherders don't want respawns or they say they will /quit the game. So no... there won't be anything more than a bad WoT clone.

And PGI hasn't given any updates on the Community Warfare update since last August. So I expect that is either very far off or they are no longer working on it.

Edited by xRaeder, 04 January 2013 - 05:30 PM.

[Valkyrie Brynhildr]

xRaeder, on 04 January 2013 - 05:29 PM, said:

The nerfherders don't want respawns or they say they will /quit the game. So no... there won't be anything more than a bad WoT clone.

And PGI hasn't given any updates on the Community Warfare update since last August. So I expect that is either very far off or they are no longer working on it.

Uh...why should there be respawns?

[Ryokens leap]

Yawn, what time is it?

[Horned Bull]

Valkyrie Brynhildr, on 04 January 2013 - 05:31 PM, said:

Uh...why should there be respawns?

So the bad players can respawn and go back to the field to finish off the ones who killed them.

[xRaeder]

Valkyrie Brynhildr, on 04 January 2013 - 05:31 PM, said:

Uh...why should there be respawns?

The OP wants tactics in the game. 70% of the games are made up of PUG players... which currently means little to no tactics other than blob up and focus fire. Which means that PUG players ARE the player base.

There currently is no time to really react to anything the enemy team brings to the fight. I can't switch to an ECM mech to counter a LRM heavy team like I could to counter a tank in Battlefield 3 by switching to Engineer or Support with C4.

Because you are stuck with what your PUG drops with there is little room to have actual tactics.

Korm, on 04 January 2013 - 05:38 PM, said:

So the bad players can respawn and go back to the field to finish off the ones who killed them.

My PUG only K/D is probably better than yours. I want respawns because of the above reasons. You don't because you are an elitist with no valid reasons.

[Horned Bull]

xRaeder, on 04 January 2013 - 05:40 PM, said:

My PUG only K/D is probably better than yours. I want respawns because of the above reasons. You don't because you are an elitist with no valid reasons.

Gold being gold. Seriously I doubt it. Also good job at using examples like CoD or battlefield. Respawns gives you ******** ability to come back from the dead only to kill off the people who actually won some fights and then artificially rise your K/D. Not to mention neglecting efforts of lighter mechs getting rid of heavier ones. I kill a missleboat in my jenner, said boat is back in 40 seconds and starts to maul my team again.

Respawns are good for games like planetside but not for this one. Also lack of respawns makes survival skills important rather than charging right in front of the enemies just to die in few seconds.

edit: typos and I have clarified something.

Edited by Korm, 04 January 2013 - 06:06 PM.

[Kahoumono]

Agreed, this game isn't about respawn. It would totally be unfair for the surviving mechs to fight fresh mechs.

If there was a pre-launch lobby, you could discuss loadouts and roles so you don't get caught with you pants down. You could have so many game type possibilities if you had a pre-launch lobby.

Edited by Kahoumono, 04 January 2013 - 06:16 PM.

[xRaeder]

Korm, on 04 January 2013 - 05:48 PM, said:

Gold being gold. Seriously I doubt it. Also using good job at using examples like CoD or battlefield. Respawns gives you ******** ability to come back from the dead only to kill off the people who actually won some fights and then artificially rise your K/D. Not to mention neglecting efforts of lighter mechs getting rid of heavier ones. I kill a missleboat in my jenner, said boat is back in 40 seconds and starts to maul my team again.

Respawns are good for games like planetside but not for this one. Also it makes survival skills important rather than charging right in front of the enemies just to die in few seconds.

I rarely saw people charging in only to die in MW4, which if I remember correctly had respawn modes which were the most popular modes in the game... or even BF3 for that matter. Most people who get in tanks try to use range against other tanks... AA vehicles hide behind hills all the time and infantry dive behind cover when under fire. I see it all the time.

Your fears are hypothetical... if PGI were to add BF3 like multiplayer this game would be more successful than it is. That isn't hypothetical... it is a fact based on how much more sales volume that those titles have.

You also didn't even address the main point... instead you went off on a tangent about what might happen instead of what is currently happening in 70% of the games that are played: The best blob WINS. Or the team that has the best random makup wins... or the team with the premade wins. That isn't tactics. That is luck of the draw and common sense.

And for the record. I have NEVER... EVER... referenced CoD and compared ANY of its game play to this game. As far as I am concerned the last "good" CoD game was Modern Warfare...

Kahoumono, on 04 January 2013 - 06:00 PM, said:

Agreed, this game isn't about respawn. It would totally be unfair for the surviving mechs to fight fresh mechs.

That's why you have repair bays.

Edited by xRaeder, 04 January 2013 - 06:12 PM.

[Kahoumono]

xRaeder, on 04 January 2013 - 06:05 PM, said:

That's why you have repair bays.

Assuming they can disengage before the other team respawns. It doesn't take much time for scout mechs to spot for lrms.

[Horned Bull]

xRaeder, on 04 January 2013 - 06:05 PM, said:

I rarely saw people charging in only to die in MW4, which if I remember correctly had respawn modes which were the most popular modes in the game... or even BF3 for that matter. Most people who get in tanks try to use range against other tanks... AA vehicles hide behind hills all the time and infantry dive behind cover when under fire. I see it all the time.

MW4 if I remember well also had 3rd person view. And if memory serves me right there were servers that prohibited using it due to advantage it gave you over the cockpit view.

Also you can pretty much abuse the respawn system. Imagine a srmcat (A1 - 6xsrm6). With respawns a build like that would be able to pull suicidal rushes and take every time like one or two people with him. Not to mention, "getting yourself killed" would be a valid strategy for gausscats/AC20cats/AC5cataphracts - are you low on ammo? Just get yourself killed/go out of bounds and prepare yourself for free restocking!

xRaeder, on 04 January 2013 - 06:05 PM, said:

Your fears are hypothetical... if PGI were to add BF3 like multiplayer this game would be more successful than it is. That isn't hypothetical... it is a fact based on how much more sales volume that those titles have.

Possibly, as it makes the game more accessible. With respawns you don't have to be afraid of potential mistakes (because the game is much more forgiving. By dying once you won't make your team lose) as you are with just one life. [/color]

xRaeder, on 04 January 2013 - 06:05 PM, said:

You also didn't even address the main point... instead you went off on a tangent about what might happen instead of what is currently happening in 70% of the games that are played: The best blob WINS. Or the team that has the best random makup wins... or the team with the premade wins. That isn't tactics. That is luck of the draw and common sense.

Well sadly I must agree here. In pure pub matches in most of the cases the best blob wins, pilots can mitigate it to some degree, yet concentrated fire from a steiner scout lance can successfully ruin the day for matchmaker's fines lance of random awesomes, stalkers and atlases. Yet I see it more like an another matchmaker problem. It would be nice to have tonnage limits or BV to actually create more balanced teams.

xRaeder, on 04 January 2013 - 06:05 PM, said:

And for the record. I have NEVER... EVER... referenced CoD and compared ANY of its game play to this game. As far as I am concerned the last "good" CoD game was Modern Warfare...


That's why you have repair bays.

Then sorry about that I just repaid ad hominem for ad hominem.

Edited by Korm, 04 January 2013 - 06:35 PM.

[Atlas3060]

LockOn68, on 04 January 2013 - 05:26 PM, said:

Will there actually be map objectives or will it be a constant log in and just kill each other? No that I mind the mech matches but it would be nice to add some meat and potatoes to the game like controlling planets and things to that nature.

When Community Warfare is implemented we'll be seeing more.
Based on a couple of NGNG pod casts I listened to, there will be a barebones CW screen (hopefully) and then more stuff will be added as time goes on.
Which reminds me of other games I play now like Firefall where there was basically nothing for their PVE game, but after a few patches it started to get more fun.
We'll probably have that sense of progression. A few new game types here, maybe new objectives there, factions, and before you know it we'll have CW.

That's my hope at least.

[Skulll Leader]

Atlas3060, on 04 January 2013 - 06:39 PM, said:

When Community Warfare is implemented we'll be seeing more.
Based on a couple of NGNG pod casts I listened to, there will be a barebones CW screen (hopefully) and then more stuff will be added as time goes on.
Which reminds me of other games I play now like Firefall where there was basically nothing for their PVE game, but after a few patches it started to get more fun.
We'll probably have that sense of progression. A few new game types here, maybe new objectives there, factions, and before you know it we'll have CW.

That's my hope at least.

Would be cool to see more than just a slug fest in the game. I think seeing something that has progression as well as a faction based map conquering would offer so much more to the game. Maybe mercs could have a more active role to offer loyalty or double-cross to really fuel faction battles and/or merc feuds. I have played in a league that offered that very thing but on the older Mech Warrior Merc's game.

To the others talking about respawn I don't believe in respawn for a game like this is the answer, being an avid Battletecher since my table top days when you take the field you win, period.

[GalaxyBluestar]

xRaeder, on 04 January 2013 - 05:40 PM, said:

The OP wants tactics in the game. 70% of the games are made up of PUG players... which currently means little to no tactics other than blob up and focus fire. Which means that PUG players ARE the player base.

There currently is no time to really react to anything the enemy team brings to the fight. I can't switch to an ECM mech to counter a LRM heavy team like I could to counter a tank in Battlefield 3 by switching to Engineer or Support with C4.

Because you are stuck with what your PUG drops with there is little room to have actual tactics.

and look at what happens if you do try any other tactics rather than knife fight.

So Capping's Bad Huh?]

people hate you for doing anything other than stick together, focus fire and brawl and CW isn't going to stop it cause people will just whinge that the game isn't fun when people outsmart them and cut their pew pew short. MWO hasn't budged out of team smothering gameplay ever and it's not going to when anything more sophisticated gets in the way of the dakka dakka masters of mechs. MWO is just a shooting gallery and saddly that's all people want it to be. so no pgi will not make anything interesting such as support convoys, base powergenerators defence, recon and escape with info. this will never be a game of tactics, it's just trench warfare with mechs and everyone will hate you for doing anything different.

Edited by GalaxyBluestar, 04 January 2013 - 07:18 PM.

[xRaeder]

This game will also have 3rd person view. Not sure what your point is.

You can easily implement systems that prevent respawning abuse. Repair bays are one way, so that those that survive the fight can go back. You can also reward the people for staying alive longer by giving them added rewards for killstreaks, damage, captures, etc that they get after their first kill or whatever.

You can also have a ticket system where if people are suiciding then their team will lose faster than the other team.

If this game has maps the size of the ones I have seen in MW:LL... 20x20km, then there will be little reason to suicide if it takes you minutes to get back into the fight. You can also have multiple objectives so that people are fighting all over the map. This also negates a lot of the short range brawling... though you can have sections of the 20x20 map that are made up of caves and ravines to give short range people a place to fight if they want.

Respawns make people less afraid, yes... but I don't see people suicide in WW2OL where it also takes people minutes or more to get back into the fight. Nor do I see them suiciding in BF3. So what is your point? Even if they were... their team would be penalized and they would make far less.

You can also institute a timer on Mechs based on their tonnage which has been suggested before. If the devs are smart there a tons of ways to mitigate all the problems you have with a MW:LL-like system.

Finally: The current matchmaking system won't go away... instead it would be used for leaderboards and clan matches like LoL or other competative games. You can give out special prizes to winners... Unique skins... colors... even Mech chassis.

[ElmoWithAGun]

xRaeder, on 04 January 2013 - 05:40 PM, said:

My PUG only K/D is probably better than yours.

This is the most pathetic thing anyone can ever say...

Good job! You're going places in life.

[Skulll Leader]

Yea to be honest with just a constant jump in to a game for a slug fest every time will get real old for me. I think they really need to step it up if they do have plans to add more to the game otherwise this will die an eventual death.

[CrashieJ]

I would voucher for Respawns, but as a group and not one at a time.

the thing is people are blowing this out of proportion, we need to give people a choice.

-new players want respawns enabled so they can get revenge and learn tactics (well, what if I tried this instead of tactic "blob up")
-older players want no respawns because it gives more urgency to the fight.

We can set up different planets or sectors that have these choices so that all aspects can fight for their community.

we dont have to shut other players out because we want it one way and not give a thought to others, that's the quickest way to kill a game, more-so with an MMO.

respawns can be integrated (with tweaks and ideas) so more people can feel like they're doing something to help your faction.

TL:DR once planetary conquest with rewards for holding sectors comes out, people will have a different view on how to integrate respawns,

and I will **** you not, a huge handful of people who yell out "NO RESPAWNS!" will cry for "WE NEED REINFORCEMENTS!" when they get clobbered by other factions

[xRaeder]

ElmoWithAGun, on 04 January 2013 - 07:19 PM, said:

This is the most pathetic thing anyone can ever say...

Good job! You're going places in life.

It was a response to him suggesting that only bad players want respawns, which is not true.

[Alaric the Arcane]

LockOn68, on 04 January 2013 - 05:26 PM, said:

Will there actually be map objectives or will it be a constant log in and just kill each other? No that I mind the mech matches but it would be nice to add some meat and potatoes to the game like controlling planets and things to that nature.

The Germanium Must Flow!