32 replies to this topic

[Koniving]

MechaCrash, on 07 January 2013 - 02:05 PM, said:

Sorry, but your 4X build sucks. They aim for the arms because they either are jumping to conclusions about where your firepower is, or do not realize that machine guns are worthless. One machine gun does 0.4 DPS. So you're spending at least five slots and three tons on a weapon that theoretically matches the performance of a single medium pulse laser, but in truth falls far short because it has terrible range and is less likely to get all of its damage in one spot.

It's actually 0.04 dps if I'm not mistaken. However the incredibly high critical chances allow for lots of bonus damage due to internal ammunition explosions, after the LPL and Streak whittles through your armor. The fact that it never needs to stop firing while you shut down, however, adds to those little benefits. It won't necessarily be me that kills you, but all that ammo that you're carrying.

[Stingz]

Koniving, on 12 January 2013 - 12:55 PM, said:

It's actually 0.04 dps if I'm not mistaken. However the incredibly high critical chances allow for lots of bonus damage due to internal ammunition explosions, after the LPL and Streak whittles through your armor. The fact that it never needs to stop firing while you shut down, however, adds to those little benefits. It won't necessarily be me that kills you, but all that ammo that you're carrying.

Lasers fire a stream of damage, so MGs are flat out useless current.

[ICEFANG13]

MGs don't do anything well. They crit high, at .04 damage a shot (so way less than most weapons), and they fire 10 shots a second. .4 DPS.

[Koniving]

Definitely recording the next time I get 2 to 4 kills with my 4x machine gun 4x Cataphract.

[ICEFANG13]

Only share it if you kill them by yourself, and without using the other weapons. 4 MGs have a DPS of 1.6, 2 small lasers have a DPS of 2...

[Girth Fillmore]

I still have a HBK-4SP and HBK-4P in my stable from the time I started playing. The 4SP is a wonderful brawler with decent survivability, and the 4P has a 9 MLAS alpha strike which is just hilarious.

[Butane9000]

Mediums are a solid choice of chassis to go with. They are great as support mechs but some definitely have different roles:

Hunchback - The Hunchback is probably the most iconic medium and arguably probably the "best" of the bunch. It provides a great platform for just about any situation with the right variant. Let's look at em:

HBK-4G - The original Hunchback. Stock version comes with the heavy hitting AC20 and 2 tons of ammo (14 rounds) 2 medium lasers and 1 small laser. The hard points are a little "weak" compared to the 4H but we'll get to that. This mechs hard points are: 3 Ballistic hard points in the right torso, 1 energy hard point in each arm and 1 energy hard point in the head.

Builds I like: AC10 w/ 2 medium lasers, AC5/UAC5 with 3 medium lasers, 3 MGs, 2 Large Lasers and a medium laser

HBK-4H - The "other" ballistic Hunchback. This one changes two ballistic hard points for additional energy hard points. This one is a little more useful then the 4G. The builds can vary but a common one is 1 Gauss rifle and 5 small lasers. It makes this unit a sniper mech.

HBK-4P - The all energy version of this chassis. No worries of ammunition, all you have to watch is your heat. This has been a very effective mech but one I haven't used much. There are a variety of builds, the most common is a lot of medium lasers or small lasers and make it as fast as you can.

HBK-4J - The LRM hunchback. It also comes with a lot of energy hard points. You can use this mech as a SRM brawler but it is less effective in that role then the 4SP variant. This would be one step above the 4G on the usefulness bracket of the variants.

HBK-4SP - This is the SRM close combat brawler variant. This is one of the better variants for the chassis. It can be used as light hunter, assault support or hit and run attacker. Definitely a good start.

Centurion - Now I really do like the Centurion. It's even in my signature. However compared to the Hunchback it is "weaker" in terms of variety. The variants don't change much. The entire chassis is built as a rear line support for LRM boats and front line support for assaults.

CN9-A - The stock centurion. With the right build this can be a terrific support and brawling mech. I use 2 Medium lasers, an AC5 with 2 tons of ammo and 3 SSRM2's. With Ferro Fibrous armor I can have maximum armor on the unit and last a long time. With this mech you must make good use of your left shield arm when being hit my LRMs. Also you have to watch your right arm which houses your ballistic weapon if you choose to use it as it can be blown off easily.

CN9-AL - This variant drops the arm mounted ballistic hard point for dual energy hard points on the arm. It reduces the need for ammunition but the missile hard points still require them. I am not a huge fan of this variant though when I do use it I usually build it into a sniper role by using a PPC.

CN9-D - This is the most expensive Centurion. It comes with an XL engine and is designed as a fast attack unit. I built it similarly to my CN9-A to great success. This is not a light hunter however and can be surprisingly susceptible to enemy light and fast mechs.

Cicada - This is the fast medium. It's a chicken walker. I am not a huge fan of this mech as most builds I have seen need a great deal of work to make viable because the stock variants are fairly poor. That is not to say this mech cannot be used to great effect as I have died to these plenty of times.

CDA-2A/2B - I've lumped these two together because they have very similar hard points and builds. Beware that you have to upgrade the armor as the stock armor level on the Cicada is very low and I was destroyed in short order.

CDA-3C - Arguably the weakest Cicada by virtue of it's 4 ballistic and 1 energy hard point greatly limiting your build options. There isn't much you can do with this variant as ballistics are heavy and limit you to mostly Machine guns.

CDA-3M - This is the most expensive Cicada due to it's XL engine, Double Heat Sinks and other advanced technology. This is also an ECM capable mech which makes it very popular right now. It also doesn't have a very bad stock arsenal.

Trebuchet - This is the February battlemech. This is designed as a medium chassis LRM indirect fire support mech. It also will have a variant that is jump jet capable. We'll see how this one fares. It's nickname is the Trenchbucket.

Blackjack - The opposite of the Trebuchet, this is a small Jagermech or medium chassis direct fire support mech. It will also have a jump jet capable variant. Unless they increase the speed at which mechs are released in the game don't expect to see this until June. Or after the beginning of the Clan invasion.

[Troggy]

Agreed about the Med Las. The same applies to the ordinary Large Laser - it has no real disadvantages. It's damage per heat is similar (a bit better) than the medium. Basically, you pay for some range with some extra weight. Always a solid choice.

As for flamers and MGs - utterly useless. Even for "crit" attacks. In case anyone is wondering how this works: A "crit" is a probability that you destroy a specific item in the section of enemy mech you hit. However, items have health. Even the weakest item (a gauss rifle) has 3 health. You have a roughly 50% chance of "crits" when you hit. So 4 machine gun will do roughly 0.8 "Crit" damage per second. If the gauss is the only item in the section it will be destroyed in ~3 full seconds of fire. If it has been buffered with ammo or engine, it will take ~4 sec (remember "Crits" get dealt randomly). If that cataphract had just carried real weapons (i.e. 4 Med Las). He would have had 8x4 = 32 damage and probably just torn the section right off. Never mind that each of those lasers also can deal crits.

ICEFANG13, on 07 January 2013 - 06:55 PM, said:

Haha anyone who says "this build is good" and it has a flamer or a MG on it, I laugh.

NO! OP do not use Flamers or Machine Guns at all right now. MechaCrash's list is amazing and great advice, take it.
"As for weapons: medium lasers are king, only use medium pulse lasers if you have weight but not hardpoints or space. Garbage weapons to avoid are machine guns (awful damage), flamers (heats you more than the enemy, the two ER energy weapons (fights tend to be within 300 meters so you're paying a lot of heat for something that doesn't really help), and small pulse lasers (just use regular mediums)."

I would say that mediums do a weaknesses, but overall, I'd agree about it, if you aren't sure, you can't go wrong with a medium laser.

[BrewnIx]

I always thought MG's were intended not for mech vs mech combat but for smaller infantry,infantry vehicles and elementals!

[ICEFANG13]

They are, which makes one wonder why they are in this game. PGI needs to buff them and accept that they are no longer MW MGs, or even change them completely (heavy machine guns anyone?). No reason to even have them now.

Honestly, the damage, range, and ammo requirements, you will always be better off with something else, unless you have a build with max armor, max std engine, all the non-ballistic slots used, and a 2 cooling effectiveness, oh yeah, and you have to have between 1.5 tons and 7 tons (A/C-2 with 1 ton of ammo) free. No wonder they aren't used. Think of it this way. The Cicada-3C, can carry 4 MGs and a Flamer (might as well), all together have a DPS of 2, have a limited range of 200m, runs hotter, and weighs more than 2 small lasers (DPS 2 as well). Seriously, better with anything else.

MGs will probably be buffed with Flamers for the Spider, otherwise we won't be seeing too many of them around.

Edited by ICEFANG13, 13 January 2013 - 12:16 PM.

[Oy of MidWorld]

Welcome to the game. It can be a little harsh in the beginning, while you're still learning the ropes, but if you stick with it, it will become very rewarding pretty soon. Best choice is to join a group, it's a lot more fun that way. Cheers.

[Butane9000]

As far as weapons go I do recommend checking this thread. It has all the stats for every weapon in game at the moment..

As far as Machine Guns go they are practically useless. However they do become somewhat useful when a mech has it's armor stripped and it's internals are showing. There have been talks of dramatically increasing the critical chance for Machine Guns when a target is unarmored.

Flamers at the moment are garbage, utter garbage. The only real way to buff them is either a significant increase in damage or give them some form of utility like a "soften armor" effect which increases damage to the area by a percentage.

[Stingz]

Butane9000, on 13 January 2013 - 02:27 PM, said:

There have been talks of dramatically increasing the critical chance for Machine Guns when a target is unarmored.

Give MGs a (massive) damage bonus to internals, then it will be a weapon to be feared.