19 replies to this topic

[Prat]

Let's assume that we have a select few (2) chassis of light mechs that can mount Streaks and use them effectively against other lights.
Let's also assume that we have other lights that cannot use Streaks versus those particular variants - whatever the reason may be.

How would one defend oneself?

What if AMS could actually "Properly" help defend against Streaks?
At the moment, Streaks move too fast with too much health for AMS to be a valid defense.
Now if Streak health &/or speed was nerfed and AMS could bring down 2 Streaks out of the 4/6 missile volley, then we might actually have a fight on our hands again.

Thoughts?

[Bilbo]

If you reduced their speed, faster lights could simply outrun the range, unless they are fired from extreme close range.

[Prat]

True, and I certainly wouldn't advocate reducing the speed to that extent. I just want to give AMS a shot.

[Bilbo]

I think the AMS problem is a matter of firing/detection arc, rather than missile health. I could be wrong though.

[siLve00]

I serious have no clue what iam reading here...

a light mech who cant use streaks want a propper counter for streaks on other lights ?

this put the streak QQ and so on a whole new lvl !

[Prat]

siLve00, on 07 January 2013 - 02:27 PM, said:

I serious have no clue what iam reading here...

a light mech who cant use streaks want a propper counter for streaks on other lights ?

this put the streak QQ and so on a whole new lvl !

I'm sorry but what's so hard to understand? Instead of b1tching about ECM and the streaks on ECM Only mechs, I'm trying to propose a solution that would allow keeping ECM the way it is, including the variants it's mounted on.

If AMS helped with streaks then you could still keep running your 2D or 3L and I could run a jenner without feeling like I'm gimping my team. How was this even in the realm of QQ?

[siLve00]

Prat, on 07 January 2013 - 02:33 PM, said:

I'm sorry but what's so hard to understand? Instead of b1tching about ECM and the streaks on ECM Only mechs, I'm trying to propose a solution that would allow keeping ECM the way it is, including the variants it's mounted on.

If AMS helped with streaks then you could still keep running your 2D or 3L and I could run a jenner without feeling like I'm gimping my team. How was this even in the realm of QQ?

You could even do it if the netcode would work like it should.
Since your using a lightmech you wont benefit from it... fix netcode = no more problems at all... Just for the lightmechs who would need to learn how to play.

*Yes i have a light.. yes i switched to a 3L... and no i dont play it exclusive i just wanted to know how it did feel like*
*Last but not least... nice try boi because you wouldn´t just counter enemy lights you would counter ANY SSRM.*

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

Prat, on 07 January 2013 - 02:16 PM, said:

What if AMS could actually "Properly" help defend against Streaks?

AMS does attempt to shoot down SSRMs, the only problem is that you need to have enough distance for the AMS to react to the missile, so like 100m +. Point blank shooting of SSRMs (which is 99% of the time) the AMS doesn't have time to react, and doesn't even attempt to shoot down the missiles.

[Booran]

AMS do work on SSRMs, but they aren't effective anywhere closer than 200+ meters.

[Zyllos]

Personally, this is what I would do to SSRMs: Comprehensive Issues and Suggestions for MWO

Quote

Issue Six: Always SSRMs

While the netcode issues might be the reason why Light on Light fights are almost always with ECM/SSRM circle jerk fights, many still believe SSRMs are not in a good place. There are two major issues, beyond netcode, as to why Lights almost exclusively use SSRMs:

- SSRMs lock mechanic works like LRMs, being much to easy to keep the lock.
- SSRMs turn radius is much too tight.
- SSRMs only lock onto LT/CT/RT instead of also including LA/RA/LL/RL.
- SSRMs guarantee damage, thus higher DPS of the same SRM launcher size.

Some suggestions on helping make SSRMs more balanced with SRMs:

- Seperate the lock mechanic from LRMs. For every 0.5s the crosshair is on the target, a SSRM (not the whole SSRM launcher, just a single SSRM) is locked.
- Can continue to gain SSRM locks until every SSRM is locked.
- When a SSRM is launched, the launcher itself goes on CD (in the event of partial launches).
- SSRMs lock mechanic is much more touchy than LRMs. Not having the crosshair on the target for 1.0s, all SSRM locks are lost. But during that 1.0s, SSRMs can be launched for those that have gained the lock.
- SSRMs CD should be ~150% of a SRM launcher of the same size.
- SSRMs lock mechanic only starts within 270m range (SSRM range).
- SSRMs should have a maximum turn radius of 45 degrees (pi/2 radians) per second.
- SSRMs should also include the LA/RA/LL/RL into the random locations to home into.

What this should do is make the SSRMs overall DPS approximately 50% of a SRM launcher of the same size, assuming 100% hits with both launchers. Thus, if a player can land 50% of a regular SRM launcher missiles, he/she should produce 100% the damage of an SSRM launcher. This makes SSRM launchers better at sustained combat where you are making sure all of your SSRMs are landing on the target for damage while the SRM is better at sudden attacks, where firing as many missiles as quickly as possible then backing off or overwhelming the enemy with using as many SRMs as possible in a short amount of time, ignoring the amount of ammo used.

[Fajther]

I remember ams being that way in cb. There were no streak cats back then because 3 ams = streak cat does no damage. I wonder why they changed it.

[Prat]

siLve00, on 07 January 2013 - 02:39 PM, said:

You could even do it if the netcode would work like it should.
Since your using a lightmech you wont benefit from it... fix netcode = no more problems at all... Just for the lightmechs who would need to learn how to play.

*Yes i have a light.. yes i switched to a 3L... and no i dont play it exclusive i just wanted to know how it did feel like*
*Last but not least... nice try boi because you wouldn´t just counter enemy lights you would counter ANY SSRM.*

Again, I don't see your point. I'm quite alright with Streaks being brought down a notch and relying more on direct fire weapons.

mwhighlander, on 07 January 2013 - 02:42 PM, said:

AMS does attempt to shoot down SSRMs, the only problem is that you need to have enough distance for the AMS to react to the missile, so like 100m +. Point blank shooting of SSRMs (which is 99% of the time) the AMS doesn't have time to react, and doesn't even attempt to shoot down the missiles.

That's exactly what I'm trying to address. While AMS "TRIES" shooting down Streaks, it's not very effective.

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

Prat, on 07 January 2013 - 02:56 PM, said:

Again, I don't see your point. I'm quite alright with Streaks being brought down a notch and relying more on direct fire weapons.



That's exactly what I'm trying to address. While AMS "TRIES" shooting down Streaks, it's not very effective.

True, but the AMS right now isn't even effective at shooting down LRMs, either. Hell, I don't even equip it anymore, sadly.

Edited by mwhighlander, 07 January 2013 - 02:57 PM.

[siLve00]

Prat, on 07 January 2013 - 02:53 PM, said:

Again, I don't see your point. I'm quite alright with Streaks being brought down a notch and relying more on direct fire weapons.

okay i will help you...

Prat, on 07 January 2013 - 02:16 PM, said:

What if AMS could actually "Properly" help defend against Streaks?

then every light mech who could use AMS would be unkillable with streaks.
Since the AMS dont care if the rockets coming from another light mech or from an assault mech it would shot down every rocket.
So every light mech would be even more undestroyable as they are allready.

So you want a counter for SSRM in other light mechs .. here it is :

fix the netcode.. then your laserbeams would tear the other light kinda fast into 1.000 pieces.
BUT you dont wont that because you are using a light too and you could be hit too.

easy isnt it ?

Edited by siLve00, 07 January 2013 - 03:00 PM.

[Prat]

siLve00, on 07 January 2013 - 03:00 PM, said:

okay i will help you...



then every light mech who could use AMS would be unkillable with streaks.
Since the AMS dont care if the rockets coming from another light mech or from an assault mech it would shot down every rocket.
So every light mech would be even more undestroyable as they are allready.

So you want a counter for SSRM in other light mechs .. here it is :

fix the netcode.. then your laserbeams would tear the other light kinda fast into 1.000 pieces.
BUT you dont wont that because you are using a light too and you could be hit too.

easy isnt it ?

LOL ok if you want to turn it personal you can. I won't.

I run all mechs. In fact my favorite right now is my founders Atlas with SRM6s, UAC5s and MLs.
That's beside the point though. Heavies and Assaults don't really have issues smacking lights.

No, my issue is only with me being able run a competitive light that doesn't have a 2D or 3L at the end.

Anyway, others have understood this while you're not getting it. That's ok. At least you're still bumping the thread for me.

Cheers buddy

[Zypher]

siLve00, on 07 January 2013 - 03:00 PM, said:

okay i will help you...



then every light mech who could use AMS would be unkillable with streaks.
Since the AMS dont care if the rockets coming from another light mech or from an assault mech it would shot down every rocket.
So every light mech would be even more undestroyable as they are allready.

So you want a counter for SSRM in other light mechs .. here it is :

fix the netcode.. then your laserbeams would tear the other light kinda fast into 1.000 pieces.
BUT you dont wont that because you are using a light too and you could be hit too.

easy isnt it ?

If you replied with this at the start in a less condensending tone there would probably only be 3 posts in this thread, the OP, your reply, and then a thanks.

Edited by Zypher, 07 January 2013 - 03:10 PM.

[siLve00]

yeah i dont get it..

Maybe you dont get it, that an AMS what would shot down streaks like hell affect ANY STREAK WEAPON... and not only lightssrm.
If you fail to see the balance problems.. you are stupid or you just want what i did write down.

Like i said if you wana be competive with other lights who are using streaks : NETCODE FIX !
You will be even better since you are used to use beamweapons ^^

*As for now take it or leave it.. like i said.. i switched from my jenner to 3L just because you dont stand a chance with the actual netcode vs streak lights*

Zypher, on 07 January 2013 - 03:09 PM, said:

If you replied with this at the start in a less condensending tone there would probably only be 3 posts in this thread, the OP, your reply, and then a thanks.

iam just serious pissed about all those "nerf / we need less heat / do this weapon blablblb" threads.

This freaking game is so broken.. why do we need weapon balance if 75% of the matches do start with 7vs8 ( or smt like that ? ) Why do we need nerfs if the netcode isnt working as it should be ? If they fix that stuff... we can finaly see where this game has to balanced and where it shouldnt. This is just brainpollution.

Edited by siLve00, 07 January 2013 - 03:15 PM.

[Prat]

Zypher, on 07 January 2013 - 03:09 PM, said:

If you replied with this at the start in a less condensending tone there would probably only be 3 posts in this thread, the OP, your reply, and then a thanks.

lol you had me confuzzled for a bit there before the edit

[Prat]

siLve00, on 07 January 2013 - 03:12 PM, said:

yeah i dont get it..

Maybe you dont get it, that an AMS what would shot down streaks like hell affect ANY STREAK WEAPON... and not only lightssrm.
If you fail to see the balance problems.. you are stupid or you just want what i did write down.

Like i said if you wana be competive with other lights who are using streaks : NETCODE FIX !
You will be even better since you are used to use beamweapons ^^

*As for now take it or leave it.. like i said.. i switched from my jenner to 3L just because you dont stand a chance with the actual netcode vs streak lights*





iam just serious pissed about all those "nerf / we need less heat / do this weapon blablblb" threads.

This freaking game is so broken.. why do we need weapon balance if 75% of the matches do start with 7vs8 ( or smt like that ? ) Why do we need nerfs if the netcode isnt working as it should be ? If they fix that stuff... we can finaly see where this game has to balanced and where it shouldnt. This is just brainpollution.

I understand your frustration. In a way, you may be right and nerfing Streaks may not be the right way to go. That is why I posted it here to get opinions. You are against it for reasons you've voiced.
I am for it, for reasons I've voiced. More to the point, I don't believe the "Net Code" issue will be resolved anytime soon. This will keep Streaks as the ultimate anti-light weapon, with the exception of the 2 ECM variants. Given that nobody runs anything else, Streaks our straight out worthless. That is unless you have a buddy countering.

Anyway, I really don't want to turn this into a ECM this, Netcode that thread. I just wanted to discuss the impact of buffing up AMS in a way that wouldn't render LRM useless.

[Lykaon]

I would recomend only using the 2 light mechs that can use streaks to the exclusion of everything else until this silly Streak + more ECM = win situation is done with.

If all Devs see is ECM + streaks maybe we will get them properly fixed so we can get on with mechwarrior online again.

I was pretty vocal in the past about streaks being way out of wack with other weapon systems but then along came ECM and overshadowed the streak issue with the ECM issue.