What if ECM just randomly explodes? Say, a 10% chance to explode every minute.
2
46 replies to this topic
#42
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- FP Veteran - Beta 1
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Posted 14 January 2013 - 11:38 AM
Long post sorry
Lots of good ideas on this thread. Some head scratchers. I’ll add some of my head scratchers.
First off I want to say that NOT ALL things should be balanced. For example: AC10 and AC20. AC20 SHOULD be better then the AC10. AC10’s purpose is “I don’t have enough room to fit an AC20 in here, so I’ll take the next best thing. At least it’s better then an AC5”. That doesn’t mean that it’s equal to exactly half of an AC20. It’s just enough smaller that I can mix it in with other things better and get a better punch then with an AC5.
Or when an Atlas walks on to the field all others should be looking for something to hide behind. Instead of charging in with a hunchy that has more fire power and speed. All mechs are NOT created equal and no amount of messing in the mech lab should make them that way. A great Pilot on the other hand can. A lone jenner should have no chance vs an atlas, but Wise and rescourceful pilot can give him one.
ECM
To balance ECM I would change several things instead of just one. Example:
ECM hides mech at range. But TAG, NARC, and BAP counter ECM.
In order to do this you need to increase the tag range so that it can tag mechs at LRM range. But it is dependant on LOS and hitting the target.
Make NARC last longer, and not be LOS dependant. It doesn’t need to give a bonus to hit, it just allows you to be able to hit without LOS.
Give BAP a bubble where it detects ALL Powered up Mechs regardless of LOS. ECM halves that range.
Also shortening the ECM bubble’s range would at least reduce the number of mechs that it protects. Unless they are a well disciplined team in tight formation.
Light mech swarms.
3 things.
The best option that I heard so far for this is to reduce the light mechs armor. I know I have hit lights 3 or 4 times with my Atlas’s ac20 and they still don’t go down. I remember reading in the news posts that the tactics of MWO would prevent the circles of death twitch finger fights. Well that has not happened. I think of the light class as the show up and fade away before the assaults get a shot at you mechs. If they see you long enough to get a shot off your toast. Not the run in circles till everyone watching is puking dizzy.
I think less armor would make it so that they would be sneak and strike choices for the most skilled pilots.
Two, make the 360 target retention module cost a couple hundred k, instead of more then two light mechs, would be a HUGE balancer. Seriously I could by two mechs to just follow me around and tell me where he is for 6mil price.
Three bring back knockdowns. This ain’t bumper cars. A commando runs into an atlas’s leg he SHOULD fall on his kister. And then get stepped on. (but I know that melee is not in the game so don’t worry about that part yet. )
Jenner Vs Raven.
From my limited MW past I remember the Raven as the expensive pimped out Electronic’s sweet. The Jenner as the rough and tumble every mans low cost, low tech, runs with just a little duck tape and elbow grease mech. Raven = lasers, ECM, BAP, TAG. Jenner = Armor, Rockets, Radio and nerves of steel. (and commando = will at least I’m inside where it’s warm and dry, now I’ll stay behind this atlas and yell “Protect me I have the ECM!!!”) J (I love my commando, I call him BeedyBeedy cause with his phracken paint job he looks like a Lord of the Flies version of Tweegy)
First make these two reflect that in the Mech lab. Which includes bringing back the repair costs. (it just ain’t Mechwarrior with out repair costs.) Then you might have to take a few contracts in a Jenner so that you can afford to repair all those sweet electronics in your raven.
If the Jenner is lower cost to repair and run, and has more armor, is a little tougher, it has as specific roll.
If the raven has fewer weapons and armor, but more bells and whistles, it has a different but specific roll to play as well.
Sure you can mess with them in the mech labs to screw them up, just like putting tricked out rims on truck, but stock they should be designed for different rolls.
LRMs
LRMs should be the dumb man’s terror on the battle field. Artillery support is a basic fundamental of combat. If you run out in the open you should get showered with missiles, cause idiots don’t last long on the battle field. You deal with LRM’s by taking out the one shooting them. Either with a sniper weapon like gauss or ERPPC, or with a fast mover that knows how to advance using cover. That is called tactics. Powerful artillery is also the reason for ECM and AMS. If you have those two employed on your Mech then until the AMS ammo runs out you should be pretty safe. Unless someone uses some tactics and NARCs or TAGs you. Then you better find and kill the little pest fast. (maybe AMS could be a little more accurate.)
I hate the cockpit shake and dark screen from getting caught in a missile shower as much as the next guy. But that is my own fault for exposing myself. Hit reverse and get back under cover! Change to heat vision mode and back to clear you screen and be a little smarter next time.
Pulse lasers
I agree with the idea of decreasing the pulse lasers heat and duration. The heat should be the same as a regular laser, if the recycle time decreases, damage is the same and range is shorter. This means more damage at close range but your heat builds up faster because you’re firing more.
You have a one weapon that is better at close range, for a shorter time, and one that is better at longer range for a longer time. Make the choice based on your fighting style.
Last thing.
Rewards, Please bring back the repair cost. It’s just not the same with out them. But with it please modify the “contract reward” for wins and losses. If I bring an atlas to the fight, pay me for an Atlas, if I bring a commando pay me for a commando. It’s only fair. 1,000 x Mech weight for a win, 250 x mech weight for a loss. If I bring a rent-a-mech, (trial mech) charge me a rental fee instead of repair costs. The rest should be made up by the combat bonuses.
Just a thought.
So far I have liked what has been done to deal with farmers, seems to be working. Just one thing to try and add. If there is a functioning abandon Mech on the field and I have had to eject from mine. If I’m the first one into the abandon one let me take over the controls. Then they are less of a waste of band width. And could be a last minute reinforcement to turn the tide. And a lot more interesting then sitting there waiting for the match to end.
Lots of good ideas on this thread. Some head scratchers. I’ll add some of my head scratchers.
First off I want to say that NOT ALL things should be balanced. For example: AC10 and AC20. AC20 SHOULD be better then the AC10. AC10’s purpose is “I don’t have enough room to fit an AC20 in here, so I’ll take the next best thing. At least it’s better then an AC5”. That doesn’t mean that it’s equal to exactly half of an AC20. It’s just enough smaller that I can mix it in with other things better and get a better punch then with an AC5.
Or when an Atlas walks on to the field all others should be looking for something to hide behind. Instead of charging in with a hunchy that has more fire power and speed. All mechs are NOT created equal and no amount of messing in the mech lab should make them that way. A great Pilot on the other hand can. A lone jenner should have no chance vs an atlas, but Wise and rescourceful pilot can give him one.
ECM
To balance ECM I would change several things instead of just one. Example:
ECM hides mech at range. But TAG, NARC, and BAP counter ECM.
In order to do this you need to increase the tag range so that it can tag mechs at LRM range. But it is dependant on LOS and hitting the target.
Make NARC last longer, and not be LOS dependant. It doesn’t need to give a bonus to hit, it just allows you to be able to hit without LOS.
Give BAP a bubble where it detects ALL Powered up Mechs regardless of LOS. ECM halves that range.
Also shortening the ECM bubble’s range would at least reduce the number of mechs that it protects. Unless they are a well disciplined team in tight formation.
Light mech swarms.
3 things.
The best option that I heard so far for this is to reduce the light mechs armor. I know I have hit lights 3 or 4 times with my Atlas’s ac20 and they still don’t go down. I remember reading in the news posts that the tactics of MWO would prevent the circles of death twitch finger fights. Well that has not happened. I think of the light class as the show up and fade away before the assaults get a shot at you mechs. If they see you long enough to get a shot off your toast. Not the run in circles till everyone watching is puking dizzy.
I think less armor would make it so that they would be sneak and strike choices for the most skilled pilots.
Two, make the 360 target retention module cost a couple hundred k, instead of more then two light mechs, would be a HUGE balancer. Seriously I could by two mechs to just follow me around and tell me where he is for 6mil price.
Three bring back knockdowns. This ain’t bumper cars. A commando runs into an atlas’s leg he SHOULD fall on his kister. And then get stepped on. (but I know that melee is not in the game so don’t worry about that part yet. )
Jenner Vs Raven.
From my limited MW past I remember the Raven as the expensive pimped out Electronic’s sweet. The Jenner as the rough and tumble every mans low cost, low tech, runs with just a little duck tape and elbow grease mech. Raven = lasers, ECM, BAP, TAG. Jenner = Armor, Rockets, Radio and nerves of steel. (and commando = will at least I’m inside where it’s warm and dry, now I’ll stay behind this atlas and yell “Protect me I have the ECM!!!”) J (I love my commando, I call him BeedyBeedy cause with his phracken paint job he looks like a Lord of the Flies version of Tweegy)
First make these two reflect that in the Mech lab. Which includes bringing back the repair costs. (it just ain’t Mechwarrior with out repair costs.) Then you might have to take a few contracts in a Jenner so that you can afford to repair all those sweet electronics in your raven.
If the Jenner is lower cost to repair and run, and has more armor, is a little tougher, it has as specific roll.
If the raven has fewer weapons and armor, but more bells and whistles, it has a different but specific roll to play as well.
Sure you can mess with them in the mech labs to screw them up, just like putting tricked out rims on truck, but stock they should be designed for different rolls.
LRMs
LRMs should be the dumb man’s terror on the battle field. Artillery support is a basic fundamental of combat. If you run out in the open you should get showered with missiles, cause idiots don’t last long on the battle field. You deal with LRM’s by taking out the one shooting them. Either with a sniper weapon like gauss or ERPPC, or with a fast mover that knows how to advance using cover. That is called tactics. Powerful artillery is also the reason for ECM and AMS. If you have those two employed on your Mech then until the AMS ammo runs out you should be pretty safe. Unless someone uses some tactics and NARCs or TAGs you. Then you better find and kill the little pest fast. (maybe AMS could be a little more accurate.)
I hate the cockpit shake and dark screen from getting caught in a missile shower as much as the next guy. But that is my own fault for exposing myself. Hit reverse and get back under cover! Change to heat vision mode and back to clear you screen and be a little smarter next time.
Pulse lasers
I agree with the idea of decreasing the pulse lasers heat and duration. The heat should be the same as a regular laser, if the recycle time decreases, damage is the same and range is shorter. This means more damage at close range but your heat builds up faster because you’re firing more.
You have a one weapon that is better at close range, for a shorter time, and one that is better at longer range for a longer time. Make the choice based on your fighting style.
Last thing.
Rewards, Please bring back the repair cost. It’s just not the same with out them. But with it please modify the “contract reward” for wins and losses. If I bring an atlas to the fight, pay me for an Atlas, if I bring a commando pay me for a commando. It’s only fair. 1,000 x Mech weight for a win, 250 x mech weight for a loss. If I bring a rent-a-mech, (trial mech) charge me a rental fee instead of repair costs. The rest should be made up by the combat bonuses.
Just a thought.
So far I have liked what has been done to deal with farmers, seems to be working. Just one thing to try and add. If there is a functioning abandon Mech on the field and I have had to eject from mine. If I’m the first one into the abandon one let me take over the controls. Then they are less of a waste of band width. And could be a last minute reinforcement to turn the tide. And a lot more interesting then sitting there waiting for the match to end.
Edited by RightHook, 14 January 2013 - 11:48 AM.
#43
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- 6,392 posts
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Posted 14 January 2013 - 05:12 PM
Had a match today where my SSRM suddenly started to miss the opponent and were spinning into wild directions.
#44
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- Survivor
- 44 posts
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Posted 15 January 2013 - 11:14 AM
ECM is completely beyond broken. The situation is literally worse than the LRM fiasco that happened a couple months back. Fights revolve around which team has more ECM. ECM coupled with the poor net coding alone is genuinely ridiculous.
ECM coupled with poor net coding and a fast scout mech = game is clearly broken.
ECM coupled with poor net coding and a fast scout mech = game is clearly broken.
#45
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- The Infernal
- 32 posts
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- LocationUsually face down in the mud somewhere...
Posted 15 January 2013 - 11:57 AM
Landeraxe, on 10 January 2013 - 10:17 AM, said:
....
Please let me add that as a founder, I have also purchased several founder memberships for friends because I loved the faithfulness of what I saw when this was first coming out. Maybe it's the extended beta with no community warfare that is sapping my interest in the game, but I have to say that seeing PGI seemingly pander to the cries of casual gamers who'll be playing something else in a few months, and disregarding the hopes of loyal, dedicated Battletech fans who've invested in this franchise and want a more simulation feel, has not helped to keep me playing. The hardcore fans are your real player base, and will be playing this game for years to come IF they are being given what they feel is right. Battletech is a niche market with die-hard fans, but they'll turn away if they are disregarded.
Please, take us into consideration. You have done such wonderous things with the title to this point. Stay the path!
Thanks!
Please let me add that as a founder, I have also purchased several founder memberships for friends because I loved the faithfulness of what I saw when this was first coming out. Maybe it's the extended beta with no community warfare that is sapping my interest in the game, but I have to say that seeing PGI seemingly pander to the cries of casual gamers who'll be playing something else in a few months, and disregarding the hopes of loyal, dedicated Battletech fans who've invested in this franchise and want a more simulation feel, has not helped to keep me playing. The hardcore fans are your real player base, and will be playing this game for years to come IF they are being given what they feel is right. Battletech is a niche market with die-hard fans, but they'll turn away if they are disregarded.
Please, take us into consideration. You have done such wonderous things with the title to this point. Stay the path!
Thanks!
Mad Elf, on 13 January 2013 - 04:01 PM, said:
(my emphasis)
This is the most important thing I've seen said on any of these forums for a long time. PGI, please pay attention!
This is the most important thing I've seen said on any of these forums for a long time. PGI, please pay attention!
Well if THAT were the most important thing posted on the forums in a long time PGI might as well close shop.
So he loved the early game (Closed Beta I presume) so much he not only bought a Founders Title for himself.His friends were bought too! Titles, that is.
Actually it's not really important if someone bought one, ten or a million titles. As long as you don't buy shares of the company you don't get a say in how they run their business.
You may be a founder, but you are no CEO.
I'm pointing this out because I'm under the impression that a certain minority amongst the otherwise rather nice gang of MWO Founders seems to believe that waving the title counts as an argument.
If that were correct, if PGI would listen to your dollars or Euros or Yen or Peanuts in that way, the game would derail into a Pay2Win in no time.
So PGI, listen to Founders.
If they have valid arguments. There's plenty of those.
Don't listen to their threats of your Bancrupcy if you DON'T GET THEM A FR*66*NG MILKSHAKE!! RIGHT NOW!!!
PS: Yeah I know, this post has so nothing to do with balance and gameplay feedback. Sorry 'bout that.
#46
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- 181 posts
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Posted 15 January 2013 - 12:24 PM
Mudhawk, on 15 January 2013 - 11:57 AM, said:
PS: Yeah I know, this post has so nothing to do with balance and gameplay feedback. Sorry 'bout that.
It also has very little to do with the posts you're quoting...
#47
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- The Infernal
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- LocationUsually face down in the mud somewhere...
Posted 15 January 2013 - 04:18 PM
Mad Elf, on 15 January 2013 - 12:24 PM, said:
It also has very little to do with the posts you're quoting...
Well, If that actually is the case then I apologise for misreading. But I can't help, reading Landeraxe's post the 5th time over, (just to be sure) that he's basically saying:
"I paid you money. Even more money than other founders (because me love you mucho).
Other people pay you no money. BUT they still voice demands. Ignore them. Listen to your money giving DIE HARD fans. (As in devoted, not as in the movie). Only your DIE HARD (Is a TM aplicable here?) fans will always be true fans. Did I mention the money I gave you?"
I found that part of his post irritating but it didn't actually incite a response.
Well, then YOU went "+1" on exactly that part and that just topped it off so nicely I had to voice my irritation.
Now as I said, maybe I read it all wrong and in that case I'm sorry.
I just don't see how I might have misinterpreted his rhetorics in any way.
PS: Oh well, it's kinda late on my side of the Atlantic (or the Channel in your case Mad Elf...^^). Maybe I'm just tired. Night Mates.
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