59 replies to this topic

[EvilCow]

I disagree, the only times I play conquest it is when I forget to select "ASSAULT" in the game GUI.

[Xendojo]

LULZ!!!

Totally disagree. I'm of the opposite opinion actually. I have stopped playing conquest altogether because, lets be honest it's just TDM with more cap points. Sure assault is just TDM too but at least it's not trying to be something else on top of that.

Conquest mode is a nice idea, but the maps we have now are just not big enough to support it. Bigger maps would do SO so much for this game.

Conquest for me is much less fun than assault mode.

[Stormwolf]

Is it really too hard to implement missions like:
- Secure/defend the spaceport
- Withdraw to the dropship
- Scout targets
- Establish beachhead
- Protect/destroy the command centre
- Solaris Free for All
- Solaris Team Deathmatches

Later we can have missions for Clan players:
- Trial of Possession
- Trial of Grievance
- Trial of Position (needs special criteria)

[EvilCow]

And all of the above will degenerate in TDM if massive forces are not represented by a (limited, mind you) respawn.

[Inertiaman]

It would be pretty damn fun to be able to bet your mechs against the other team in a 2v2 though. Challenge system would be superb.

[pesco]

Asmosis, on 14 January 2013 - 12:16 AM, said:

Had a match where last two mechs were me (stalker srm6 variant) vs a commando. 8 MINUTES LATER the game ended at the 15:00 mark, i forget who "won".

Maybe what you really wanted was an option to surrender.
You lost (or barely won) that match because your surviving Mechs were not able to effectively project control over the target area relative to your enemy.
Conquest has sound victory conditions.

In Assault on the other hand, every other match ends with no shots fired because one team cap-rushed while the other was so "dumb" to not cling to their base but actually seek the enemy objective.


FWIW, I would be much more content with Assault if above ninja-capping were prohibited. The only reason for the existence of base capping in the first place is to avoid the last Jenner running off to hide even though he'll lose eventually. The cap rush, not constituting meaningful play but simply an annoyance, is a negative side-effect of the broken mechanics.

Therefore, if they wanted pure deathmatch, they should at least do it right and allow base captures only starting at 5min into the match.

But even then, the argument still stands, team deathmatch is largely uninteresting from a tactical standpoint. It only serves to make the game look directionless and breed players who will drop into Conquest PUGs and play like it's Assault.

Edited by pesco, 14 January 2013 - 08:51 AM.

[Garrath]

Completely disagree with OP.

Conquest is nothing more than chasing ECM lights around waiting for the next waypoint to blink, no tactics whatsoever. If I wanted to chase blinking dots around all day I'd go play PacMan.

[Pando]

I enjoy conquest more than I enjoy assault. Some of the best competitive matches were conquest in my experience. I agree with the OP.

Garrath, on 14 January 2013 - 09:18 AM, said:

Completely disagree with OP.

Conquest is nothing more than chasing ECM lights around waiting for the next waypoint to blink, no tactics whatsoever. If I wanted to chase blinking dots around all day I'd go play PacMan.

I'm going to guess you haven't played many conquest matches. if you have, you're probably that guy running out alone and dying early in the match. Just'sayin.

[Fut]

EvilCow, on 14 January 2013 - 07:01 AM, said:

And all of the above will degenerate in TDM if massive forces are not represented by a (limited, mind you) respawn.

From my understanding "Massive Forces" in the MechWarriror Universe is only like 12 Mechs per side.
These things are supposed to be walking armies all on there own, I don't think there have been too many (if any) large scale battles with hundreds of Mechs on each side.

Also, Respawning is ubershite.

[RaNDoMPReCiSioN]

Stormwolf, on 14 January 2013 - 06:49 AM, said:

Is it really too hard to implement missions like:
- Secure/defend the spaceport
- Withdraw to the dropship
- Scout targets
- Establish beachhead
- Protect/destroy the command centre
- Solaris Free for All
- Solaris Team Deathmatches

Later we can have missions for Clan players:
- Trial of Possession
- Trial of Grievance
- Trial of Position (needs special criteria)

I fully agree we need more content along the lines of this, but like everything else it will have to wait until the dev team finish implementing the main mechanics of the game. I'd like to know how far or close we are from making it to the next development phase and see some real game mechanics kick in to action.

There has to be more to MW:O than TDM with mixed cap points. This isn't team fortress by any means. I long for the day when I can once again embark on a mission which takes me across many miles of twisting landscape. But alas I fear that day will never come. However, we digress.

One thing's for sure, there is a difference between conquest and assault modes. I do not prefer one over the other, but conquest does introduce different tactics into the game. I enjoy assault for what it is and that's simply a deathmatch. Especially now that the cbills for kills far outwiegh the need to cap.

Conquest makes you work together better as a team as you need to co-ordinate across mutliple points in order to succeed. Sure it ends in carnage most times but played correctly, the layout makes the team spread out and communicate more. I don't have a huge problem using an Atlas in conquest mode either (in fact I prefer it) so long as the team work well together.

Edited by RaNDoMPReCiSioN, 14 January 2013 - 09:51 AM.

[Rippthrough]

RaNDoMPReCiSioN, on 14 January 2013 - 09:35 AM, said:

Conquest makes you work together better as a team as you need to co-ordinate across mutliple points in order to succeed. Sure it ends in carnage most times but played correctly, the layout makes the team spread out and communicate more. I don't have a huge problem using an Atlas in conquest mode either (in fact I prefer it) so long as the team work well together.

No, you need to stay together and play it just like assault, anything else and you'll die miserably.

[RaNDoMPReCiSioN]

No you don't need to stay together. You need to spread out across two points and hold your ground. I've seen this work so many times already and has been great fun.

[Rippthrough]

I'm going to love dropping against you one day.

[blood4blood]

Conquest: NR (no respawn) TKOTH (team king of the hill) with five hills.
Assault: NR TD (team destruction) with TKOTH endzones.

I agree we need more gametypes and larger maps. Respawn would make Conquest a lot more interesting from a tactical standpoint, especially if the points system required the game to go on until one team reached 750 points, then awarded the win based on a combination of resource points/kills (have to find a balanced way to weight the system).

[Pilotasso]

Funny I read most people complaining its the conquest mode that doesnt make sense.

I guess opinions are balanced between one and another and in the end there is place for the 2.

What I do think is that currently it makes no sense at all to have assaults on conquest, its all about speed and given that collisions have been removed theres little you can do even on heavies and meds unless you fit a big engine to run as fast as them to hunt them out.

It needs a rethink, but even before that fix the physiscs. URGENT, you might as well forget new mechs without this.

[J4ckInthebox]

I like Conquest better too. The fight patterns are more varied, and it awards slightly MOAR MONEYz.

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

Codejack, on 10 January 2013 - 01:00 PM, said:

It's just boring as mud.

That about sums it up. In 2002 it would have been great, but in 2012(almost 2013), it's a generic, dime a dozen, mode that's in almost every MP game out there. They did nothing to make it more original or diverse using their Battetech license. There's no innovation at all. All they did was copy/paste then use the Mechs for players. I suggested actually making the bases... bases, that also do something, and putting A.I. into the game. I typed a lot about it, but I doubt most remember as most either didn't care or even read it in the first place. I wasn't the only one though, a lot of users agreed or suggested such things themselves. Whenever I say "I", I usually don't mean to imply I was the only one. Regardless, we'll likely never see that in this game. Copy/paste generic game modes with Battletech Mechs, that's probably all we're ever going to get. At least the FFA arena, whenever it comes, will be more fitting to Battletech...

[Stormwolf]

EvilCow, on 14 January 2013 - 07:01 AM, said:

And all of the above will degenerate in TDM if massive forces are not represented by a (limited, mind you) respawn.

Potentially, if we have poor setups for those missions.

We need large areas with multiple paths to certain areas. What we also need are the bread and butter of the Mechwarrior franchise; primary, secondary and tertiary objectives.

On a large map you could take force with a ECM equiped mech to take out radar stations and/or communication arrays for bonus rewards instead of attacking the enemy immediatly. Achieving this within a timelimit should help out with capturing a enemy starport. The defending side could decide to send fast units to scout those locations and perhaps make their stand there.

At any rate, Era Report 3052 has some nice missions for this sort of thing which could be easily translated with mechanics we used in past Mechwarrior games.

Specific scenario:

Quote

Touchpoint: Tamar



Situation:
East Merchant District, Tamar City
Tamar, Federated Commonwealth
7 November 3051

One of Clan Wolf’s primary objectives during the Fifth Wave was Tamar, the capital world of the Tamar Pact. The Golden Keshik and the four Clusters of Alpha Galaxy faced the Twenty-Sixth Lyran Guards RCT, as well as the Kelswa Guard, a ’Mech unit loyal to Duke Selvin Kelswa. Duke Kelswa further mobilized the Tamar War College Training Battalion to defend Tamar City. Tamar City itself had been reinforced for a very long time, and the walls around the city turned the capital in to a citadel. Duke Kelswa felt betrayed by the Federated Commonwealth, and refused to cooperate with the FedCom’s local representatives, not even the Twenty-Sixth.

Game Set-Up
Use maps from Table 7: Light Urban Terrain and Table 8: Heavy Urban Terran (see p. 263, TW). Use at least 2 maps per company of Defenders. The Defender picks his starting edge, with the Attacker’s edge being on the opposite side of the playing area.

Attacker
The Attacker consists of elements of the 328th Assault Cluster, particularly Trinary Assault and Supernova Battle. At least one out of every three Points fielded must be an Elemental Point. When creating ’Mech Stars, use the Medium and Assault Star sections of the Star Weight Composition Table (see p. 265, TW). The Attacker can only field one Star for every company of the Defender. Use the Frontline column of the Force Composition Table on p. 109 to assign skills. When using the player’s unit, follow the same guidelines concerning the deployment of ’Mechs, Elementals, and their ratio compared to the Defenders. The Attacker enters from their starting edge.

Defender
The Defender consists of elements of the Kelswa Guards and the Tamar War College Training Battalion. At least one lance per company must be from the Training Battalion. Use the Assault Lance column of the Lance Weight Composition Table (see p. 165, TW) to create the Kelswa Guard, and the Medium Lance column to create the Training Battalion. Use the Mercenary column of the Force Composition Table on p. 109 to assign skills to the Kelswa Guard and the the Training Battalion. When using the player’s unit, replace the Kelswa Guards, and deploy Training Battalion ’Mechs with the same ratio (one lance of Training Battalion for every two of the player unit). The Defender enters from their starting edge. The Defender can deploy up to half his total force using the Hidden Unit rules (see p. 259, TW).

Warchest
Track Cost: 300 WP
Objectives
1. Victory. Defeat the enemy. (Reward: 700)

Special Rules
The following rules are in effect for this track:

Fatal Patriotism
Any light ’Mech that belongs to the Training Battalion may operate per Booby Trap rules (see p. 297, TO). If the Defender desires, he may elect to change one heavy Training Battalion ’Mech in to a light ’Mech that is also Booby Trapped.

Fatal Inspiration
The Defender may replace a single Kelswa Guard ’Mech with Duke Selvin Kelswa and his AS7-D Atlas. He has Gunnery 4, Piloting 5 Skill Levels. While he is on the field the Defender automatically wins Initiative each turn. Once he is killed or his ’Mech is destroyed the Defender automatically loses the Initiative each turn.

Barbarian Scum
The Attacker must operate using Honor Level 1 until the first building has been destroyed by the Defender. This includes building destruction resulting from Booby Trap damage, or causing a building to collapse under a ’Mech’s weight. If any of those conditions are met the Attacker will operate under Honor Level 4. Buildings destroyed by the Attacker do not meet
the condition.

Next Track
Inner Sphere: Defend, Fighting Withdrawal, Hold-in-Place, Touchpoint: Satalice
Clan: Assault, Probe, Trial of Position, Trial of Grievance, Touchpoint: Satalice

General missions

Quote

Mission: Assault
Finally! The stravag dogs will stand and face us in honorable
combat. Here is where we fulfill the will of the Great Father and the
Founder, where we earn our place in the Remembrance of our Clan.
Here is where we prove the value of our genes!

Game Set-Up
The Defender places two mapsheets in any legal position and
designates one edge as the Defender’s home edge. The Attacker
then chooses two edges to enter his force from, designating one
as his home edge.

Attacker
The Attacker is a portion of the player’s force. The Attacker may
choose up to ten units but need not choose his units before the
Defender determines his.
The Attacker selects two-thirds of his force (rounding
up) to enter from either (or both) of the selected edges at the
beginning of the game. The remaining portion of the Attacker’s
force may enter at the beginning of any turn between Turns 4
and 12, as long as at least one operational unit remains on the
battlefield.

Defender
The Defender is a portion of the planetary defender’s force. To
determine the Defender’s Force Composition, roll 1D6 on the following
table. Add a +2 modifier to the roll if the Attacker failed to
complete a successful Mission: Recon or Mission: Probe immediately
prior to this track.

Warchest
Track Cost: 400 WP
Optional Bonuses:

+50 Night Combat: A lack of ambient light degrades the ability
of BattleMechs to target and hit an opposing unit. Apply a +2
To-hit modifier to all weapon attacks.

+150 Heavy Rains: Rain obscures vision, so apply a +1 To-hit
modifier to all weapons fire made in rainfall. Additionally, apply a
+1 modifier to all Piloting Skill Rolls.

+200 Tangled Forests: Hexes with Heavy Woods terrain are
considered impassable and block line of sight due to the tangled
roots and branches of the trees.

+200 Elite Defenders: Assign half of the Defender’s units with
Piloting 3 and Gunnery 2 Skill Levels.
Objectives

1. Hammer. Cripple or destroy at least two-thirds of the
Defender’s force. (Reward: 400)

2. Cutting off the head. Cripple or destroy the enemy commander’s
BattleMech. (Reward: 200)

3. Bondsmen. If an Elemental Point enters a hex where a
destroyed Defender unit is, roll 1D6. On a result of 3-6, the Point
captures the pilot (crew) and makes them bondsman. (Reward: 20
per captured unit (vehicle crews count as one unit regardless of
number of crewmen))

Special Rules
The following rules are in effect for this track:

Salvage
The Salvage rule (see p. 110) is in effect if the Attacker
achieves the first objective.

Commander
One of the units on the Defender’s force is a field commander.
The Defender selects one unit of his force and
assigns it a Gunnery skill of 2 and Piloting skill of 2. If the unit
containing the commander is destroyed, the Defender must
apply a –2 modifier to all subsequent Initiative rolls.

Next Track
Clan: Pursuit, Probe, Trial of Position, Trial of Possession,
Trial of Grievance, Touchpoint: Trell I, Touchpoint: Turtle Bay,
Touchpoint: Icar, or Touchpoint: Damian

Quote

Mission: Recon

The captain sent us out here to see what we could learn from
these invaders’ landing zone—but we can’t get too close. The first
patrol never made it back.

We must find some sign of the honorless Spheroid defenders
soon, or else we will be forced to break our bid and call down an aerospace
Point to locate them!

Game Set-Up
The Defender places two mapsheets in any legal position and
designates one edge as the Defender’s home edge.

Attacker
The Attacker consists of a small portion of the player force and
may use up to four (Inner Sphere) or five (Clan) units. The Attacker
chooses his forces first and may choose which map edge to enter
on. This edge is then designated the Attacker’s home edge.

Defender
The Defender is a portion of the planetary defender’s force and
is determined after the Attacker has chosen his forces. To determine
the Defender’s Force Composition, roll 1D6 on the following table.
Add +1 to the roll if the previous track engaged a militia force.
The Defender sets up half of his force (rounded down) on the
board. The rest of the Defender’s force enters from their home edge
on the beginning of Turn 3.

Warchest
Track Cost: 50 WP
Optional Bonuses:
+25 Rain: Rain obscures vision, so apply a +1 To-hit modifier
to all weapons fire made in rainfall.
+25 Mushy Ground: Apply a +1 modifier to all Piloting Skill
Rolls.

Objectives
1. ID / Scan all of the Defender’s force. Scanning must be
done within 4 hexes of an enemy unit at the end of the Movement
phase and in lieu of any attack. (Reward: 75)
2. Escape! At least half of the Attacker’s force must survive and
exit the Attacker’s home edge after eight turns. (Reward: 25)

Special Rules
The following rules are in effect for this track:

Forced Withdrawal
The Defender’s force is leery of a full-press engagement and
follows the Forced Withdrawal rules (see p. 109) during this track.

Next Track
Inner Sphere: Recon, Strike, Defend, Hold in Place, Fighting
Withdrawal, Probe, Touchpoint: Trell I, Touchpoint: Turtle Bay,
Touchpoint: Icar, or Touchpoint: Damian.
Clan: Strike, Assault, Flank, Probe, Beachhead, Trial of Position,
Trial of Possession, Trial of Grievance, Touchpoint: Trell I, Touchpoint:
Turtle Bay, Touchpoint: Icar, or Touchpoint: Damian.

The scenarios would need retooling, but you could easily include things that aren't possible in the TT.

Some suggestions I'd make here:
- Piloting skill reduction can easily be included by decreasing the overall speed and turn rates. It would make light mech pilots weary to go into swamps and muddy parts of the map. This would add a additional tactical element to the game.
- Night Combat is already in, so no changes needed here. I'd merely include the option for a commander to choose when they attack (as done in MW4).
- Withdraw option for players, there should be two or more exits on every map unless the scenario specifies that there is no escape. You only get rewarded for the work you actually did during the mission (no bonus would be included). People who leave early would get little to nothing in terms of rewards.
- Multiple missions can be linked, you could use this for community warfare, successfully completing a number of missions could win a planet for your faction.
- Some objectives should have time limits involved, you can achieve these with a strong team. Gaining extra rewards would inspire more teamwork.

[RacerX]

Conquest is still a team deathmatch game type. What's the point in playing towards the game types strengths when there is so little reward. Light mechs should cap. That's thier strength in this game type. However, they don't earn any XP at all. Why not? Loose the match and earn 100xp. Big deal. Please revisit this.